Another new TQ motor: hpr40

[Rás Cnoic]

the SL motors have a clutch (or something like one) - you physically can’t turn the motor with the pedals, and the motor can’t actually turn the pedals either. if you put the bike on a stand and give the pedals a quick spin without any load on the wheel in turbo what you’ll see is actually the chainring spinning fast for a second (and the rear wheel of course) but the crank arms are basically disconnected by the clutch. it’s strange, but makes sense. you don’t want to ever feel like the motor is turning the pedals, and when the motor is off or you’re out pedaling it briefly you don’t want to be a generator!

TQ does it differently, the whole deal is fully concentric to the motor and the harmonic pin ring assembly replaces all the kludgy splined gears, and in the 40 they’ve made it so tiny and light by removing one of the physical clutches and using software to emulate it by spinning the motor “just right.”

something doesn’t seem right about this - so we/i may be misunderstanding part of it. the motor obviously disconnects above the cutoff, there’s no way the rider is spinning the motor at all times, but it seems like the behavior when the motor is “ON” but at low power level is highly dependent on the software.

Very interesting. Not an engineer but I do get nervous when it's software not mechanical, not when the motor is new, but how the longevity of the system pans out. I guess we'll hear more reports as people buy the bikes.

 

[apctjb]

something doesn’t seem right about this - so we/i may be misunderstanding part of it. the motor obviously disconnects above the cutoff

Does the motor mechanically disconnect or at cutoff does software reduce motor torque to achieve a neutral torque state? By neutral torque I mean it adds enough torque to overcome internal resistance of the motor (rider feels no drag when pedaling) but not so much to add meaningful assistance. Good control software in theory could make it appear to the rider that the motor is "disconnected" why still being mechanically connected. So if riders are feeling drag then also in theory that is something that could be addressed via a software update. Interesting stuff!!!

 

[Rás Cnoic]

Just comparing the media coverage of this new BMC bike to the huge launch of that Avinox motors yesterday. I know this is just one new bike model and the TQ40 motor came out last year, but I couldn't find one you tube review of the BMC anywhere. It's a very niche market for tiny, low powered motors it seems. Hilarious in a way, Big Power sells!

 

[mschwett]

Does the motor mechanically disconnect or at cutoff does software reduce motor torque to achieve a neutral torque state? By neutral torque I mean it adds enough torque to overcome internal resistance of the motor (rider feels no drag when pedaling) but not so much to add meaningful assistance. Good control software in theory could make it appear to the rider that the motor is "disconnected" why still being mechanically connected. So if riders are feeling drag then also in theory that is something that could be addressed via a software update. Interesting stuff!!!

yes, and a few other reports say that some pretty sophisticated algorithms are used to “learn” the rider’s pedaling style over time so that it can provide just the right amount of power to create that feeling of zero drag!

 

[apctjb]

Slightly off topic but does anyone know if the TQ50 can operate just off the range extender without the main battery installed? Thinking ahead to cycling trips to Europe.. I hear people are flying with range extenders in carry on as they meet the max Ahr limit so wondering if could remove the main battery and just travel with range extender...

 

[apctjb]

yes, and a few other reports say that some pretty sophisticated algorithms are used to “learn” the rider’s pedaling style over time so that it can provide just the right amount of power to create that feeling of zero drag!

Interesting question? When riding with no assist (not in level I,II,III) does the motor power down or does it continue to provide enough assist to achieve neutral torque to overcome internal mechanical losses? If not then when riding with no assist then I assume the rider would feel some drag from mechanical losses in turning the motor.

 

[mschwett]

Interesting question? When riding with no assist (not in level I,II,III) does the motor power down or does it continue to provide enough assist to achieve neutral torque to overcome internal mechanical losses? If not then when riding with no assist then I assume the rider would feel some drag from mechanical losses in turning the motor.

all reports seem to say that’s it’s totally like a regular road bike above the cutoff or when turned off. it has one of the two clutches or freewheels that a typical motor has…. but when it’s energized, the output shaft of the motor is rigidly connected to the cranks, requiring pretty sophisticated control of the current to the motor in real time. a software clutch of sorts.

 

[apctjb]

huge launch of that Avinox motors yesterday. I know this is just one new bike model and the TQ40 motor came out last year, but I couldn't find one you tube review of the BMC anywhere. It's a very niche market for tiny, low powered motors it seems. Hilarious in a way, Big Power sells!

No doubt there are locations where 1500W eMTB's are needed but that kind of power has to take a toll on trail quality and tranquility...

 

[Rás Cnoic]

No doubt there are locations where 1500W eMTB's are needed but that kind of power has to take a toll on trail quality and tranquility...

Yes even some UK EMTB reviewers were saying this in relation to this power arms race, that it's rare you'd even need that much power and you'll rinse the battery very quickly on that boost level. Most kind of agreeing that the Bosch CX level is probably enough.

Personally after coming first from an SL motor, I found the 85nm of the EP6 more than enough to climb anything!