Allant+ 9.9S Trigger Shifter-Ongoing, unresolved..NOW, somewhat resolved

[GuruUno]

"but to not see a potential issue is a flaw imo"
You are entitled to your opinion, however if you took the time to actually try it and experience it before your biased statement, you'd experience the "real world" interaction with a failed R&D product.
How on earth could ANY bike with such difficulty shifting be allowed to enter the market? Age is a non-issue. If I were to switch the trigger shifter to a "LEFT HAND ACTIVATED" trigger, how much time after using it would it take before my left thumb became problematic? A week, a month, a year? However, using a system with ease of use, maybe never. Get it???

 

[Over50]

They talk BS. My commuter Vado 5 is equipped with Shimano SLX 11 gear MTB group and the drive-train and the shifter work smoothly. I really don't know what could be wrong with your system...

Yes, me too. I think my Haibike (commuter/trekking bike) has an MTB setup (SLX M7000?) and it is super-smooth. I'm not too educated on the difference between road bike components vs MTB but I can't see why the shifter would make that big of a difference. It must be perhaps a combination of the component and something bike-specific. As I posted before, I didn't notice my Allant 9.9s being overly difficult to shift. I haven't seen the bike in quite a while but that is another story (waiting on lights and is in storage at the LBS). But in the 100 or so miles I rode early-on, I would say the shifting didn't even pop onto my radar as a potential issue or as something I would want to modify in the future. Given the dissatisfaction in this particular instance, would it be out of line to just request a full refund and shop for another bike?

 

[GuruUno]

Possibly. However, what? I'm considering the new RIESE & MÜLLER CHARGER 3, looks awesome, similar and with the possibility for additional desired options like a carbon belt drive, Rohloff Speedhub E14, 14-speed, 36H, Supernova M99, and more. Quite frankly I feel Trek should have offered some of these features for the money they charge. Sure, the R&M can cost a few grand more with all the bells and whistles, but it's about what you want (choice) and not what you must have (Allant 7, 8, 9 similar with slight differences). I'm a non-expert, but if I can have a comfortable, performing bike, I have to consider the options. There is a plethora of options with R&M. Just sayin'. No firm deciding anything, but if Trek can't meet my needs, I may need to look elsewhere. Sad. Anyway, here is the R&M link if interested, just posted today: https://www.r-m.de/en-dk/models/charger3/

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Perhaps it is the way to go, @GuruUno. Based on user opinions, you cannot lose with the R&M, except of the quality of paint

 

[Rob NJ]

I previously posted within another discussion my ongoing dissatisfaction with the amount of effort to 'push' the trigger shifter on the new Allant+ 9.9S.
Back when the bike was at the NYC Trek store and I made a special trip to test it out before the commitment to acquire it, I did notice the difficulty that was being exerted to downshift by pressing the Shimano XT M8100, 12 Speed. Having previously owned 2 Trek Super Commuter 8's, the difference between the 2 models is day and night.
All persons involved in any discussion say "it'll break in, it'll get better". It has not.
Another Allant+ 9.9S owner here has identical experiences and comparisons.
I called Shimano, no real answer.
He called Shimano, no real solution.
I stopped in 2 different Trek bike shops, got different contributions as to the opinion.
Some say it's the new internal routing of the cables.
Others say it's the plastic or other coating on the cables.
One suggestion is to consider a M9100 shifter at a cost.
Bottom line here is I'm told that if you disconnect the cable at the derailleur, the effort to use the shifter should be almost exactly similar with minimal effort.
It is not.
I'm at wit's end, and before I tie my new investment up in the LBS for days, weeks, or who know how long, and it is the "test patient" to figure out what is what, does anyone have the magic answer or does Trek R&D need to go back to the drawing board and do a massive recall of the defective product that is being sold?

Hi GuruUno,

Sorry I have been a bit absent, been actually riding my 9.9S. Did about 300 miles in Florida over the past two weeks, breaking it in. Few things that I would add:

1. Yes the shifting effort is more than the SC 8+, we both agree. This is not a design flaw, it is the way Shimano made it. I believe I mentioned that they were mountain bike gears in a previous post. The SC 8 has fewer gears and different shifter.
2. The SC8+ gears were also mountain bike, to be able to hold up to the higher forces in an electric motor. Mountain bike gear sets were made to be more rugged.
3. The gear set in an Allant 8.8S are different than the 9.9S - you can see that on the spec sheets. Have not tried the 8.8 for shifting force.
4. Shimano and several LBS's have told me that the 9100 has 20% less shifting force - but to your point, that is a $140 gamble.
5. My LBS did take the shifter and cable apart and made sure there was no force necessary to push the cable, and it moved smoothly and with no effort through the sleeve. So the force required is coming from the shifter as you say above.
6. In early January I wrote in a post that the 8100 shifting force was getting both complaints and kudos as MTB's sometimes like higher shifting force

To be honest, I have gotten used to the higher shifting force. In other forums you can see that this is a personal preference issue and not a design flaw. I am with you, and would prefer less force to shift, but this is not a defective bike. I did see you are going to sell the 9.9, sorry that you could not get this resolved to your satisfaction. It is still a great urban bike, although it shifts like a mountain bike. If changing the shifter makes me happy, on a bike that I will have for years, then I am doing it. Let you know the results. Will talk to Shimano again to confirm I can make the change and get exact model numbers.

 

[Rob NJ]

Hi GuruUno,

Sorry I have been a bit absent, been actually riding my 9.9S. Did about 300 miles in Florida over the past two weeks, breaking it in. Few things that I would add:

1. Yes the shifting effort is more than the SC 8+, we both agree. This is not a design flaw, it is the way Shimano made it. I believe I mentioned that they were mountain bike gears in a previous post. The SC 8 has fewer gears and different shifter.
2. The SC8+ gears were also mountain bike, to be able to hold up to the higher forces in an electric motor. Mountain bike gear sets were made to be more rugged.
3. The gear set in an Allant 8.8S are different than the 9.9S - you can see that on the spec sheets. Have not tried the 8.8 for shifting force.
4. Shimano and several LBS's have told me that the 9100 has 20% less shifting force - but to your point, that is a $140 gamble.
5. My LBS did take the shifter and cable apart and made sure there was no force necessary to push the cable, and it moved smoothly and with no effort through the sleeve. So the force required is coming from the shifter as you say above.
6. In early January I wrote in a post that the 8100 shifting force was getting both complaints and kudos as MTB's sometimes like higher shifting force

To be honest, I have gotten used to the higher shifting force. In other forums you can see that this is a personal preference issue and not a design flaw. I am with you, and would prefer less force to shift, but this is not a defective bike. I did see you are going to sell the 9.9, sorry that you could not get this resolved to your satisfaction. It is still a great urban bike, although it shifts like a mountain bike. If changing the shifter makes me happy, on a bike that I will have for years, then I am doing it. Let you know the results. Will talk to Shimano again to confirm I can make the change and get exact model numbers.

OK, replying to myself. Is that like talking to yourself and you're crazy? Well maybe. I just had a long conversation with Aaron from Shimano. He has noticed that the 8100's have a more positive feel than previous versions. He also said that while there is the compatible 9100 version, his view would be that it would not be significantly different than the 8100 in terms of force. Might be a bit smoother with 4 ball bearings rather than 2, but that is it. He also said that if a bike mechanic felt it was too stiff, they would be happy to look at it - it is certainly under warranty. He was quite helpful and open. I asked if there were a significant number of complaints, and he said "really no". It would be interesting to know what other bikes use this shifter, as the Allant 8 and 7 do not.

 

[Rob NJ]

Possibly. However, what? I'm considering the new RIESE & MÜLLER CHARGER 3, looks awesome, similar and with the possibility for additional desired options like a carbon belt drive, Rohloff Speedhub E14, 14-speed, 36H, Supernova M99, and more. Quite frankly I feel Trek should have offered some of these features for the money they charge. Sure, the R&M can cost a few grand more with all the bells and whistles, but it's about what you want (choice) and not what you must have (Allant 7, 8, 9 similar with slight differences). I'm a non-expert, but if I can have a comfortable, performing bike, I have to consider the options. There is a plethora of options with R&M. Just sayin'. No firm deciding anything, but if Trek can't meet my needs, I may need to look elsewhere. Sad. Anyway, here is the R&M link if interested, just posted today: https://www.r-m.de/en-dk/models/charger3/

GuruUno,

Very nice looking bike. Will look forward to hearing your views. I did notice that it had a Bosch Performance CX (20 mph), which is a class one bike, not class three like the Supercommuter or Allant (28 mph). The link is for the Danish Web site, and when I went to the USA web site, the page is the same. You might want to ask if they will be putting the Bosch Performance Speed on the bikes in the USA

 

[JDH3rd]

You might want to look at Archer Components (https://archercomponents.com/). They make an easy retrofit electronic shifter that seems perfect for ebikes.

My wife and I have 2019 Trek Dual Sport + bikes that have Shimano Deore Rapid-Fire Plus 10 Speed shifters, and they are indeed stiff. We were on a Backroads trip last fall and their stock flat handlebar bikes have Shimano shifters that were much easier to shift.

The Dual Sport + (discontinued in US) has a Bosch Active Line Plus motor which is not as high torque as the new Performance Line on the Allant, so it requires a lot of shifting. I like to ride at a pretty consistent cadence, so I shift a lot, even on an ebike. I have not bought the Archer D1x Trail shifter yet, but am considering it. Both my wife and I have some arthritis in our hands and find the thumb shifter a pain.

 

[Solliex]

I just purchased the Trek Allant+ 8S, And I can tell you after 20 miles, I do not notice anything unusual about the shifter. I own quite a few bikes, And this one feels very high end and Crisp. No complaints here. I am a baby boomer and ride every day, mostly just on the suburban 25 mph city streets.

 

[Rick53]

I just purchased the Trek Allant+ 8S, And I can tell you after 20 miles, I do not notice anything unusual about the shifter. I own quite a few bikes, And this one feels very high end and Crisp. No complaints here. I am a baby boomer and ride every day, mostly just on the suburban 25 mph city streets.

My guess considering the OP is now selling teh Bike for $1000 off > Has more to do with Bosch's shift detection : which could result in extra stress popping around in gears : especially if Cadence didn't match the gear you are in. I've seen court warning about this very issue on Brose and Some Yamaha motor supported brands :

Either that or there's a kink someone : Maybe where it connects : Seems odd it's not an easy fix : Or one guys stiff is another Crisp; In My vast experience Stiff shifting almost always involves the cable : Either an adjustment or it's just a bad cable : Or it could be dirt that is in the shiftier itself. Assuming because it's new it's not dirty is an often over looked mistake

All things being speculation online : What I know for sure if I lived in NJ where the OP is. I'd sure be looking into saving 1K on a Brand New Bike.

 

[Rick53]

I just purchased the Trek Allant+ 8S, And I can tell you after 20 miles, I do not notice anything unusual about the shifter. I own quite a few bikes, And this one feels very high end and Crisp. No complaints here. I am a baby boomer and ride every day, mostly just on the suburban 25 mph city streets.

Color? And Photos ?

 

[GuruUno]

Allant+ 9.9S $5000

Size L Upgraded Ergon grips, Redshift ShockStop Suspension Seatpost and the Baramind handlebars plus the new Shimano M8140XT Flat Pedals. With just a tad over 200 miles it's a very nice bike for someone who is looking for a deal. $5200 with the extras as listed, $5000 pure stock. Just over 1...

electricbikereview.com

 

[Sharp20]

This is very interesting to me- similar experience, not an ebike but when I purchased a 2020 Trek Verve 2 about 5 months ago, with Acera derailer it was incredibly hard/resistant for my thumb to trigger shift, primarily the rear derailer, which, lets face it, one shifts a lot in the course of a couple of hours on the bike. When I went back to the dealer, the mechanics didn’t seem to think it was that big of a deal even though they acknowledged it had an unusual amount of resistance. They offered a few ideas- cable inside the housing might benefit from grease (?); long cage deraillers have more resistance, might improve over time, more expensive components will shift easier so could change out, etc. They offered to do that last fix for the cost of parts only, but their hearts weren’t in it.
I also had recently purchased a new Specialized Crossroads (nearly identical bike which I bought for my Copenhagen Wheel) and it wasn’t as difficult to shift. (Rear derailleur is Altus). I admit I DO have arthritis in hands though not severe, age is 61. I finally sold the bike as my right hand would ache after riding, and its simply too much wear and tear on that thumb joint. I have explored retrofitting Di2, the mountain bike version on one of my flat bar road bikes to go easier on the hands. Costly at about $1700.
I wonder about the “it will break in” notion. I have a Raleigh flat bar bike with an 8 speed Tourney deraileur; bike is 5-6 years old at least and it shifts quite gently with very little resistance, even though Tourney is the lowest quality in the lineup, as I understand it. Maybe ‘breaking in’ can happen...

 

[GuruUno]

Trek has offered to replace the cable housing and cable so we shall see if that solves the problem. I considered a Di2 retrofit, but I cannot really justify it as a solution ($$) given the comparison to other bikes ease of shifting, much as you have described.

 

[Solliex]

Color? And Photos ?

I haven’t taken any photos since I ordered the Allant+ 8s bike at the shop, been too busy riding it. I just love the new Cobi system, and the extra battery. Since I own an Electra Cafe Moto Go 2018 ebike, with the older speed motor I can tell you the new speed motor is much quieter and much easier to attain 28 miles an hour. That is probably due to the extra 12 Newton’s of force.

 

[Rick53]

I haven’t taken any photos since I ordered the Allant+ 8s bike at the shop, been too busy riding it. I just love the new Cobi system, and the extra battery. Since I own an Electra Cafe Moto Go 2018 ebike, with the older speed motor I can tell you the new speed motor is much quieter and much easier to attain 28 miles an hour. That is probably due to the extra 12 Newton’s of force.

Very Nice Except for those stupid pedals : Which came on My Trek Generic Bike as well. They work good. But they take away curb appeal IMO : Best of luck with it : *I am waiting for the Alliant 7S . More upright with same Motor you have *Same price too*

 

[Rick53]

Trek has offered to replace the cable housing and cable so we shall see if that solves the problem. I considered a Di2 retrofit, but I cannot really justify it as a solution ($$) given the comparison to other bikes ease of shifting, much as you have described.

Makes you wonder Why they'd replace those parts: Must be the LBS stated they were suspect : Companies don't just give away parts : Although They gave me a NEW bike for Free . Which wasn't supposed to happen. I drew their attention to it 3 times. Nobody wanted to step up and admit they messed up. SO I ended up with a Free Bike : *Not an E-Bike* An $800 generic Bike

 

[GuruUno]

You might want to look at Archer Components (https://archercomponents.com/). They make an easy retrofit electronic shifter that seems perfect for ebikes.

My wife and I have 2019 Trek Dual Sport + bikes that have Shimano Deore Rapid-Fire Plus 10 Speed shifters, and they are indeed stiff. We were on a Backroads trip last fall and their stock flat handlebar bikes have Shimano shifters that were much easier to shift.

The Dual Sport + (discontinued in US) has a Bosch Active Line Plus motor which is not as high torque as the new Performance Line on the Allant, so it requires a lot of shifting. I like to ride at a pretty consistent cadence, so I shift a lot, even on an ebike. I have not bought the Archer D1x Trail shifter yet, but am considering it. Both my wife and I have some arthritis in our hands and find the thumb shifter a pain.

Regarding the Archer, I posted my opinion on this a while back, FYI.... https://electricbikereview.com/foru...ions-any-advice-experience.27785/#post-196051

 

[Solliex]

I fabricated mounts for my Allant+ 8S rack so I could use my Topika Bag per forum posts

 

[GuruUno]

Picked up my bike today from LBS, they put a new cable housing and cable in. SEEMS a little easier, raining, windy today, will give it the proper testing over the next few days. Sure hope it's better, like I said, it SEEMS lighter to the touch, but then again it is on no way like the cheapo sub $1,000 bike that was like butter.