A Teenager Hit Six Cyclists While Trying To Roll Coal And Was Not Arrested

[ian fisher]

If you modify a vehicle to make it go faster, it's because you want to go faster. If you modify a vehicle to make it more intimidating or more aggressive then there is clearly an intention to do so.
If you intentionally use a vehicle in an aggressive manner to cause harm, it seems to me no different than pointing a loaded gun and pulling the trigger, the intention is the same and the consequences within the criminal justice system should reflect that.
I don't agree with vigilante justice, but we are chimps and we did evolve and learn to survive and dominate by being aggressive, by throwing rocks at our would-be predators. Can we find a more civilised solution ?

 

[Mr. Coffee]

Can we find a more civilised solution ?

I dunno, being uncivilized is kind of fun:

 

[PedalUma]

@ian fisher is of course correct. Cycles of violence and retribution are not the answer. The most violent are those who have been treated with violence. But a public spanking of the Dad in this situation by the hospitalized cyclists would be fun to entertain.

 

[Gordon71]

Like tanks these hulking trucks are terrible for the roads. And pushing all that air resistance is very wasteful. We have become dependent on gas taxes. What if instead taxes were based on weight x height x length x width x miles. So, when Tesla moves to Texas and produces monster trucks those will get taxed too to help pay for the roads they occupy and damage.
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Actually I would like to see an additional tax on gas of $1 per gallon to be used to slow climate change. Not only would it raise money for what is probably the worlds greatest cause but it would pressure people to drive less and buy more fuel efficient vehicles. Win win.

 

[AHicks]

I sort of agree, but only if it don't harm anyone. many many years ago in a house way out in the country one loose weekend, myself and some other barely civilised teenage associates were messing around with a firearm, we had set up a shooting range in the house consisting of a few pieces of firewood at one end of a long hallway. We got bored with that and adjourned to a living room to drink fizzy beverages and indulge in some recreational drugs, one of my barely civilised associates picked up the rifle, aimed at the floor and squeezed the trigger, the bullet ricochet around the room and struck the shooter square in the balls, it was totally uncivilised to discharge a firearm in that environment, very very harmful to the one who pulled the trigger....but also seemed extremely funny at the time..still does, but luckily, we've all grown up now and become much more reponsible and civilised adults.

Fun and games until somebody gets hurt....

I was hanging out in a field with some other "uncivilized" teens one Saturday night, when one of them decided to throw a cup (or so) of gasoline on the small bonfire we had going - with the expected results. What made it funny was this fellow had the rather longish hair that was in style at the time (late 60's). What made that REALLY funny was that I thought to point to his hair, saying it was on fire as a result of the huge flash following his stupidity (though it was not!). The look on his face is something I remember to this day (really? what do I do now?)! That gave several of us reason to jump on him and start rubbing sand and dirt in his hair - to put the non existant fire out.....

From the book of uncivilized teen memories firmly embedded in my mind.... -Al

 

[ian fisher]

Actually I would like to see an additional tax on gas of $1 per gallon to be used to slow climate change. Not only would it raise money for what is probably the worlds greatest cause but it would pressure people to drive less and buy more fuel efficient vehicles. Win win.

And some responsibility within the auto industry to create vehicles that actually fit onto much less that half of the carrigeway on any two-lane road. A Hummer as an example is a completely useless and unecessary vehicle and far too wide to be used on many public roads, but no doubt you will have seen one legally being driven on a public road somewhere. Many of the modern pickup truck or SUV type vehicles are simply to large to be used in the environment for which they were built, it's like witnessing the de-evolution motor vehicles when some of the model range are designed and built larger than the last model. Some auto makers are building dumb dinosaurs and leave it to the marketing department to convince even dumber people that they need this new model. I have seen recently a televised advertisement for a new model pickup truck, "it's larger, stronger, meaner looking".. all of the stupid narrative used to create a desire to own one, but who falls for that? what kind of delusional mindset are these advertisements appealing to?

 

[Mr. Coffee]

Hopefully the advocates for a civilized discourse here are also posting on monster truck forums politely asking the people there to not run over cyclists.

 

[rich c]

And some responsibility within the auto industry to create vehicles that actually fit onto much less that half of the carrigeway on any two-lane road. A Hummer as an example is a completely useless and unecessary vehicle and far too wide to be used on many public roads, but no doubt you will have seen one legally being driven on a public road somewhere. Many of the modern pickup truck or SUV type vehicles are simply to large to be used in the environment for which they were built, it's like witnessing the de-evolution motor vehicles when some of the model range are designed and built larger than the last model. Some auto makers are building dumb dinosaurs and leave it to the marketing department to convince even dumber people that they need this new model. I have seen recently a televised advertisement for a new model pickup truck, "it's larger, stronger, meaner looking".. all of the stupid narrative used to create a desire to own one, but who falls for that? what kind of delusional mindset are these advertisements appealing to?

Detroit doesn't make anyone buy a huge vehicle. The public buys them. No one buys them, they go away. Just like sedans are being eliminated since no one buys them. When I ride in the early afternoon, there must be 35 large SUVs sitting at the middle school. The gals behind the wheel keeps the engine running for at least 20 minutes so they won't be uncomfortable. That's using a 200hp engine to operate a heater or AC. It sounds like a truck stop up there. At least half of Americans don't give the environment a second thought.

 

[ian fisher]

Detroit doesn't make anyone buy a huge vehicle. The public buys them. No one buys them, they go away. Just like sedans are being eliminated since no one buys them. When I ride in the early afternoon, there must be 35 large SUVs sitting at the middle school. The gals behind the wheel keeps the engine running for at least 20 minutes so they won't be uncomfortable. That's using a 200hp engine to operate a heater or AC. It sounds like a truck stop up there. At least half of Americans don't give the environment a second thought.

yeah I get your point too, an SUV for a school run, I see that kind of thing a lot. As a measure of self preservation, the smartest accessory item I ever bought for my bike was a rear view mirror, I see these large vehicles coming from behind and not knowing whether the driver be a mom doing the school run, someone texting while driving, or a neanderthal in an aggressive mood. In an act of self preservation I simply do get the f**k out of the way.

 

[ian fisher]

Hopefully the advocates for a civilized discourse here are also posting on monster truck forums politely asking the people there to not run over cyclists.

Monster trucks as in off road monster trucks? no I don't think those folks are necessarily part of the issue. I'm not sure that appealing to any particular demographic would have any impact at all. The ones who pose the most danger to cyclists whatever they drive might not be civilised enough to understand anything other than their own demented view, the type of individual so consumed by their rage and aggression that they would willingly inflict harm on others from behind the wheel of a motor vehicle. I wouldn't know how to appeal to someone like that...maybe start by offering them a banana?

 

[Mr. Coffee]

Detroit doesn't make anyone buy a huge vehicle.

True on one level, but the auto manufacturers and dealers make far more money on trucks and SUVs than they do on passenger vehicles, so they are going to market them harder and sell them harder. And they know how to get people to buy things they didn't think they needed.

 

[ian fisher]

True on one level, but the auto manufacturers and dealers make far more money on trucks and SUVs than they do on passenger vehicles, so they are going to market them harder and sell them harder. And they know how to get people to buy things they didn't think they needed.

And therin lies part of the issue, consumerism. It starts at home, teaching our kids to make better choices, the difference between needs and wants. So yeah I agree that these manufacturers definitely know how to sell and it is a long road ahead to the world where we are all smart enough to make better well informed choices...there are cyclists on that road who made the best choice of all, they chose not to drive a motor vehicle today.

 

[AHicks]

Detroit doesn't make anyone buy a huge vehicle. The public buys them. No one buys them, they go away. Just like sedans are being eliminated since no one buys them. When I ride in the early afternoon, there must be 35 large SUVs sitting at the middle school. The gals behind the wheel keeps the engine running for at least 20 minutes so they won't be uncomfortable. That's using a 200hp engine to operate a heater or AC. It sounds like a truck stop up there. At least half of Americans don't give the environment a second thought.

I don't know where you are from Rich, but there may be another side to that large SUV thing that makes more sense. If you live in snow country, without a 4wd, you may be home bound for days on end. This leaves some driving the SUV's, snow or no snow. I get that may not be the case everywhere, but SUV's and 4wd's make real good sense in some parts of the country.

And they aren't making 200hp while running the AC any more than you bike is making full power at a walking pace. That big v8 may only be running a 4 cylinders while just sitting there.

And trends do change. Mentioned is the poor sales of sedans. Remember station wagons? When was the last time you saw a station wagon?

Would be nice if there were a universal vehicle, but I haven't seen one yet.

 

[PatriciaK]

I don't know where you are from Rich, but there may be another side to that large SUV thing that makes more sense. If you live in snow country, without a 4wd, you may be home bound for days on end. This leaves some driving the SUV's, snow or no snow. I get that may not be the case everywhere, but SUV's and 4wd's make real good sense in some parts of the country.

And they aren't making 200hp while running the AC any more than you bike is making full power at a walking pace. That big v8 may only be running a 4 cylinders while just sitting there.

And trends do change. Mentioned is the poor sales of sedans. Remember station wagons? When was the last time you saw a station wagon?

Would be nice if there were a universal vehicle, but I haven't seen one yet.

Subaru makes pretty close to a universal vehicle... We've never had any problem going anywhere in ours - rain, snow, ice, dry, paved, dirt, gravel... It's 25 years old, and has over 200,000 miles on it, and it's still going! Though, even they are making bigger vehicles now.

I believe, when we lived in Italy, there was an annual road tax based on the size of the engine - perhaps that sort of thing would help replace lost gas tax revenue.

 

[retiredNH]

I don't know where you are from Rich, but there may be another side to that large SUV thing that makes more sense. If you live in snow country, without a 4wd, you may be home bound for days on end. This leaves some driving the SUV's, snow or no snow. I get that may not be the case everywhere, but SUV's and 4wd's make real good sense in some parts of the country.

And they aren't making 200hp while running the AC any more than you bike is making full power at a walking pace. That big v8 may only be running a 4 cylinders while just sitting there.

And trends do change. Mentioned is the poor sales of sedans. Remember station wagons? When was the last time you saw a station wagon?

Would be nice if there were a universal vehicle, but I haven't seen one yet.

I live in snow country, and rural. The vehicles of choice are the Ford F150 truck and competitors, with 4wd, or a subaru, either Forester or Outback. Neither is oversized. There are a few F250 sized trucks around, mostly as tow vehicles. Full sized SUV are pretty well non-existent, except among out of staters.

Our roads are narrow and winding, yet the drivers, including of trucks, give wide berth to cyclists. Note too that these trucks are almost all work trucks, not fashion statements. I think the fetish for oversized vehicles is a regional cultural thing. We just don't see flashy displays of consumption here. You just don't see luxury vehicle makes of any kind, even among the folks who have million dollar weekend homes here.

 

[AHicks]

Subaru makes pretty close to a universal vehicle... We've never had any problem going anywhere in ours - rain, snow, ice, dry, paved, dirt, gravel... It's 25 years old, and has over 200,000 miles on it, and it's still going! Though, even they are making bigger vehicles now.

I believe, when we lived in Italy, there was an annual road tax based on the size of the engine - perhaps that sort of thing would help replace lost gas tax revenue.

We have, and have had, Honda CRV's (used to be called a "cute ute") for our second car just about forever now, and each new generation of those seems to grow a little as well. Same story, 200k+ is easy. Feed it gas, keep the oil changed regularly, give it a new set of shoes on occasion, and it takes pretty good care of you. I would not call it a "universal vehicle" though.

Our main vehicle needs to be able to pull a small trailer through the rather large "hills" encountered when traveling through Kentucky and Tennessee on our twice annual Mi to Fl trip, so it needs to be a bit bigger than the CRV. That and it needs to hold a bunch of other "stuff" along with our 2 dogs for the duration of our 2 day "migration". That vehicle is currently a Honda Pilot, which makes me an SUV owner, even though it gets 30 mpg(+-). Point being, even though the Pilot is considered an SUV, it's certainly not on the same scale as some of these land yachts....

 

[dodgeman]

As a pick up truck owner and someone who owned a diesel pick up in the past they have there place. I live outside of town on acreage and while I don’t HAVE to have a pickup I do need one often. I also have a 18 foot car hauler that I tow a couple of times a year, usually to haul my tractor on. The diesel truck I had was a 2004 Dodge with a Cummins diesel I bought used. When I bought it there was a performance chip already installed. It was smaller than a wallet and was basically plug and play. It did not roll coal and that truck had very few emissions pieces on it so it was legal.

To roll coal you are over fueling the Diesel engine. Gas engines will not run well if they over fuel, diesels after a certain amount of fuel stop making more power but still run fine, they just make a lot of smoke. I was on a diesel truck forum at times and every once and while a new poster would come on and say “how do I roll coal” or “how do I install a smoke switch”. The universal answer was don’t do that, it’s stupid and gives us a band name.

 

[rawlus]

i am all for promoting the benefits of biking (or even walking)

for me it’s too broad a brush to jump to “nobody needs a truck or large suv” and “a subaru suits my needs so it should suit everyone else also”

i don’t need everyone to do what i say or do. why is it we always jump to “controlling others” as the solution for a problem?

 

[Mr. Coffee]

i am all for promoting the benefits of biking (or even walking)

for me it’s too broad a brush to jump to “nobody needs a truck or large suv” and “a subaru suits my needs so it should suit everyone else also”

i don’t need everyone to do what i say or do. why is it we always jump to “controlling others” as the solution for a problem?

Fair enough, but you cannot deny that the vast majority of trucks and SUVs are used for nothing more strenuous than getting a bag of salad from the grocery store or dropping kids off at school. Enough so that it is a safe bet to reason that somebody you've just met with an SUV or big truck is either posing or compensating and doesn't really need it.

 

[rawlus]

additionally. because a driver attacked and injured bicyclists we want to ban trucks?

just hold everyone accountable for their actions when it involves harm to another.

this culture is so obsessed with banning stuff. just hold individuals accountable man. that is literally all that is required.

i am not opposed to physical and/or maiming punishments when the act is intentional and resulted in harm to another. mess that kid up. remove his hands. cripple him.