A Rad owner's impressions of the LBS

[AHicks]

Cheaper bikes?
You can assemble a bike pretty inexpensively, using all brand new parts of reasonable quality. I think this is the part most people aren't getting into that a shop could really capitalize on.

New Schwinn (or your favorite brand) w/disk brakes - decent quality that anyone can see. 200.00
https://www.walmart.com/ip/29-Men-s-Schwinn-Boundary-Mountain-Bike-Dark-Green-and-Black/153585860

New Leafbikes.com 1000w conversion kit. INCLUDES fairly well regarded Lcd3 display. 299+100 frt. (just slightly more for a 1500w kit !)

(Link Removed - No Longer Exists)1000w-rear-hub-motor-bike-conversion-kit-1014.html

New battery, dolphin style for easy install, average (15ah?) capacity. 400. avail. from many vendors

That will buy you a pile of parts that cost 1000.00 RETAIL that can be installed/set up in 3-4 hours by anyone. A bike tech should be able to do his second or 3rd bike in under 2 hours easily, so labor to assemble something like this should be very reasonable - especially if he's already on the clock.

So you put it together and roll it to the front of the shop to be sold as a shop custom/specialty bike with a 1000w direct drive, LCD display, and a 15ah battery to give the new user pretty decent power (way more than most cheap production bikes) and range - at a price that should be very competitive with anything else in it's class. Plus, it's fully customizable using parts already on the shelves of most shops. The only other thing you would need is somebody that's taken the trouble to educate themselves regarding what's going on in the e-bike market, with enough enthusiasm to sell people on the concept.

 

[Rover1701]

I saw a recent video of Pacific Bikes in China where the author was traveling there to see where his European branded bike started life.
In the background, I noticed they had a Riese & Müller cargo bike in their show room among many others....
Don't think China/Tiawan always equates to poor quality...looks like they build most of the parts for most of the bikes in the world.

 

[Quantum Leap]

A couple of points. The bike would not be a street-legal ebike anywhere in the USA. And would have to be represented as such by any ethical seller. Once you do that your potential customer base shrinks by 90% most likely.

The LBS doing what you suggest would also be responsible for an implied master warranty. Including service on the motor/battery electronics etc. from overseas suppliers. As well as for a probably inherently suspect mechanical system on the inexpensive starter bike. To stay in business and not destroy their reputation with bad service, the LBS would need to charge enough to cover these issues. And produce enough bikes in enough different sizes to have a legit offering. Most LBSs would probably find simply selling and installing the conversion kits a better business. Although many who were doing that several years ago seem to have exited the business. Warranty and service issues can quickly eat up any profit for any bike shop. Selling higher quality brands with good manufacturer warranties helps minimize that problem.

The DIY approach can easily work well for someone willing to provide their own warranty and service support, and deal with the manufacturers of the individual parts. But it would turn into a lot of work for most people.

I am sure there is some market for what you are asking a LBS to provide, but not so sure a LBS could provide it without it being a net negative to their business.

Cheaper bikes?
You can assemble a bike pretty inexpensively, using all brand new parts of reasonable quality. I think this is the part most people aren't getting into that a shop could really capitalize on.

New Schwinn (or your favorite brand) w/disk brakes - decent quality that anyone can see. 200.00
https://www.walmart.com/ip/29-Men-s-Schwinn-Boundary-Mountain-Bike-Dark-Green-and-Black/153585860

New Leafbikes.com 1000w conversion kit. INCLUDES fairly well regarded Lcd3 display. 299+100 frt. (just slightly more for a 1500w kit !)

(Link Removed - No Longer Exists)1000w-rear-hub-motor-bike-conversion-kit-1014.html

New battery, dolphin style for easy install, average (15ah?) capacity. 400. avail. from many vendors

That will buy you a pile of parts that cost 1000.00 RETAIL that can be installed/set up in 3-4 hours by anyone. A bike tech should be able to do his second or 3rd bike in under 2 hours easily, so labor to assemble something like this should be very reasonable - especially if he's already on the clock.

So you put it together and roll it to the front of the shop to be sold as a shop custom/specialty bike with a 1000w direct drive, LCD display, and a 15ah battery to give the new user pretty decent power (way more than most cheap production bikes) and range - at a price that should be very competitive with anything else in it's class. Plus, it's fully customizable using parts already on the shelves of most shops. The only other thing you would need is somebody that's taken the trouble to educate themselves regarding what's going on in the e-bike market, with enough enthusiasm to sell people on the concept.

 

[AHicks]

As far as street legal, I'm no lawyer, but pretty sure that would not be an issue. You would have to be doing a fair amount of business to be considered a manf, no?

As far as warranty costs, sure, life is no bed of roses, but as a bike shop purchasing parts in quantity, it should not be hard to locate and purchase through an importer willing to supply you parts they'll back up from a warranty standpoint. From there it's labor, and there's not a part on a bike like this anywhere that can't be swapped out in an hour or less.

Bottom line, it's my belief that if you wanted to hustle, you could make money at this. If you want to just sit there and consider reasons it can't be done, I'm sure you could build a case for that as well.

 

[Little Bear]

I'm super confused on which bike to purchase (rear hub or mid-drive). My primary application will be off-road trails for getting to hunting locations including lots of hills that I will need to creep up (low speed). A review on M2S said the rear hub would pull you up a hill at a slow pace letting the bike do most of the work. But then I read on threads like this and a few others that mid-drive has more power for hill climbing. I was nearly settled on the RadRover 750 but again, would like to hear from those with real world experiences.

 

[fnkyhd]

In this internet age, it is possible to buy from a Bricks and Mortar Shop far from where you live. Propel in Brooklyn NY and San Diego Fly Rides are great sellers of quality bikes that ship all over the USA. They both have very knowledgeable staff, offer free shipping in the US and have a great inventory of quality bikes.

It seems that the market for hub driven e-bikes is dominated by mail order, or internet based sales with no local service. This makes it tough for bricks and mortar bike shops to compete as the tight margins will not support a retail establishment with on-staff mechanics and warranty service.

Most of the older, tested and respected brands like Trek, Specialized, Bulls, Haibike, Giant, Raleigh, Cube offer mid drive bikes rather hub driven bikes.

It boils down to what you want and what you value. If lowest price is primary for you, buy on line and take your chances on reliability and service. If you are a good mechanic this will reduce your risk of ending up paying as much or more than buying local.

If you value expert advice, good warranty service, the opportunity to test ride, supporting local business, then you will have to step up and pay more at a LBS.

In the Northwest we are blessed with many ebike shops.

Seattle has several knowledgeable ebike dealers. Before I bought my first ebike I spent two full days learning and test riding.

Seattle Folding and Electric Bike 22 years in business - huge selection - many brands - Specialized - EMotion - Stromer - Blix - Wallerang - Vintage - Faraday - Giant Orbea
G & O Family Cyclery Smart, friendly, patient, wide selection - Riese & Muller - Escta Cycle - Yuba - Tern - Bullit - Kalkhoff
Seattle Electric Bike - Bulls - Dube - Felt - Raleigh - Magnum - Kalkhoff - Haibike - Tern
Seattle E-Bike - Urban Arrow - Wallerang - Blix - Easy Motion - E-Prodigy - Stromer

In addition Rad Power Bikes headquarters are in Seattle with a showroom.

Portland has quite a few as does Vancouver in Canada

two of those shops in seattle are within a mile of my house. both carry very expensive mid-drive mostly. I actually bought a mid drive and hated it and returned it (it was an I-zip from performance). I ended up with a rear drive radcity which has 800 miles now and I love it. one of these shops is a block from my home. I stopped in to see if their shop was willing to work on my radcity. nope. I wonder why they don't want my business? is it because I cant afford their bikes? why are they weird like that? I don't get it and if they don't cater to locals I don't see them lasting very long as a "lbs". I almost want to open one myself just so that I can help people with their bikes instead of being snobbish.

 

[AHicks]

two of those shops in seattle are within a mile of my house. both carry very expensive mid-drive mostly. I actually bought a mid drive and hated it and returned it (it was an I-zip from performance). I ended up with a rear drive radcity which has 800 miles now and I love it. one of these shops is a block from my home. I stopped in to see if their shop was willing to work on my radcity. nope. I wonder why they don't want my business? is it because I cant afford their bikes? why are they weird like that? I don't get it and if they don't cater to locals I don't see them lasting very long as a "lbs". I almost want to open one myself just so that I can help people with their bikes instead of being snobbish.

My bet would be these shops are not seriously interested in selling, or working on e-bikes. If they were, not only would they be selling competitively priced bike lines, they'd employ staff willing to work on them! Kinda like my shop, my bikes, my rules, like it or leave......

 

[Rover1701]

two of those shops in seattle are within a mile of my house. both carry very expensive mid-drive mostly. I actually bought a mid drive and hated it and returned it (it was an I-zip from performance). I ended up with a rear drive radcity which has 800 miles now and I love it. one of these shops is a block from my home. I stopped in to see if their shop was willing to work on my radcity. nope. I wonder why they don't want my business? is it because I cant afford their bikes? why are they weird like that? I don't get it and if they don't cater to locals I don't see them lasting very long as a "lbs". I almost want to open one myself just so that I can help people with their bikes instead of being snobbish.

My guess is that they don't want to spend time supporting a local competitor's brand (a brand they don't carry or stock parts for which takes time away from their core brands) and I guess they feel they don't need the extra business? I've heard similar stories from others; I would ask the LBS directly, if I ever encounter this issue and see what they say. Also, if you live near the Seattle Rad store, you could always use them for service. Since we recently were shopping for cargo box bikes at LBS; I do have some experience with the different approach some LBS take vs the Rad Seattle store. Rad bikes are a great value and we love our Rover and City Step thru. We also love our new R&M cargo bike.

 

[Alaskan]

What people are griping about in this thread extends far beyond the realm of ebikes, deep into the entire economy. With so much manufacturing having moved to China and other offshore locations, where labor is cheap and environmental laws are weak, too many American consumers only consider price, buying the cheapest goods they can find. This started with the advent of big box stores and shopping malls killing American, locally owned, downtown retail. Then the rise of Wallmart further destroyed retail. Then the loss of decent paying blue-collar jobs that resulted made it not only desirable but for many necessary to only consider low price when making purchases. The dominance of internet sales, Amazon etc. further weakened what was left of local retail. There are precious few local book stores, local hardware stored, local electronics shops still open for business. It used to be that you started a retail business, supported your family with the work and then were able to retire when you sold it. Now, if you can stay open till retirement age, there is no one interested in buying it. Retail entrepreneurship is just about dead.

The only way bricks and mortar retailers survive in the current economy is to specialize and serve those who still value service, warranties, and quality over low price. This is the only segment of the economy that is either willing to or can afford to buy from local bricks and mortar retail. Locally owned retailers cannot survive anymore serving those for whom low price is a primary consideration.

There are probably a higher percentage of bicycle retailers still in business than just about any other segment. They survive by selling quality products, supported by manufacturers with good distribution systems, well stocked parts inventories, prompt shipping and capable tech support, all things that add to cost. They can't survive if they try to compete with on-line, inexpensive goods with flimsy supply chains, no parts warehouses and thin tech support in distant lands.

The Rad model is a sound one. It appears that Juiced with interesting products and low prices is struggling and mostly succeeding in following that model. There are other direct sales companies doing a good job. There are also plenty of players rising and falling, trying to undercut the successful ones with lower pricing. Something has to give and that something is usually service. Asking your LBS to make up for this is just not reasonable. There is always a price to be paid, either up front or on the back end.