Everyone seems to be fixated on 20mph or 28mph rides that get you from point A to point B fast. I am not looking for peppy. My main ride is gravel/paved trails where I want to look around and enjoy the scenery. I'm guessing I would like to move at 6-10mph. Can you slow down an Ebike to smoothly go at lower speeds with or without pedal assist? If so, what are your recommendations and are mid motor drives better than hub drives for this?
70 year old rider
- Thread starter dwgrenda
- Start date
J.R.
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Piedmont Highlands
One of my bikes has a computer that displays lifetime average speed. I think it currently reads 13.4 mph over many thousands of miles. I too ride mostly off road trails, dirt farm tracks and dirt roads. When I was commuting everyday my average speed was between 15 and 16 mph. Your use needs are not uncommon.
Many people complain cadence sensing systems don't provide low speed assistance well. They often will get up to 10 to 12 mph in lowest assist level. I would suggest a torque sensing system. They do allow for low speed assistance fairly well. The better the system (the more you spend) the better they are. There are hub drive systems that have torque sensing like Pedego and Stromer, but there are far more mid drives available and a mid drive allows the rider to slow down even more because the assistance is through the chain and gear set. If you want to really go slow you just choose a lower gear.
Currently I have two ebikes, both mid-drives, no throttle. In some of my groups I need to back off the speed and saunter along at around 8-10 mph. I find if I keep the assist at Eco mode, then select the appropriate gear, I will be somewhere in the middle of the group, which is perfect for chit chatting. I have no info on a throttle bike, but other members here would be able to help. Depending where you live, some test rides will help narrow your options.
Congrats on you new ebike!
Congrats on you new ebike!
AHicks
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Snow Bird - Summer S.E. Michigan, Winter Gulf Coast North Central Fl.
70 here too, and you sound like you'll be riding much like I do a lot of the time. YES, you can slow an e-bike down to that kind of speed. Most decent ones will let you select any amount of "boost" YOU would like. This to control your speed, and your ability to ride on grass and climb hills for instance.
Mid drives AND hub drives are both capable of this.
Many other factors come into play to make the call regarding which of those might be better suited for your purposes.
A lot of newbies are fascinated by the thought of how fast a bike can go, only to loose that fascination once they've been there done that. The exception being folks that use their bike for commuting.
Regardless of other features/options you decide on, I would suggest you insist on a throttle for the sole purpose of giving you a hand to get the bike moving from a stop. Whether or not you use it for anything else, THAT feature let's you get your balance prior to pedaling. SUPER handy, especially when the bike is stopped while pointing up a hill.
harryS
Well-Known Member
Yes, you can ride slow on most ebikes, but you might have to turn the assist level off for 6 mph. It wouldn't be needed anyway,
Many cadence systems, especially on the inexpensive models, are difficult to stay under 8 mph with power. They want to be faster, The bikes are often designed to hit 12 mph in the lowest assist level, as long as the pedals move. The more expensive torque sensor systems are better in this regard, providing no assist til you press hard enough, Torque sensors are found in most mid drives, and a few hub drives.
At the same time, why spend $2K and more for a ebike with torque sensor if you're only going to ride it at 12 mph. You would if you had steep hills to climb. Then you want reserve power. However, if you only ride rail trails like me, where the slopes are manageable (else the train couldn't make it), a hub drive will be fine.
Many cadence systems, especially on the inexpensive models, are difficult to stay under 8 mph with power. They want to be faster, The bikes are often designed to hit 12 mph in the lowest assist level, as long as the pedals move. The more expensive torque sensor systems are better in this regard, providing no assist til you press hard enough, Torque sensors are found in most mid drives, and a few hub drives.
At the same time, why spend $2K and more for a ebike with torque sensor if you're only going to ride it at 12 mph. You would if you had steep hills to climb. Then you want reserve power. However, if you only ride rail trails like me, where the slopes are manageable (else the train couldn't make it), a hub drive will be fine.
jangles
Active Member
Heres a bike that my wife has and it has a torque sensor . It works very well for what you are describing and its easy to get off and on .
EUNORAU Electric Step-Thru beach cruiser style Bike 500W peak!! Colorful panel+torque sensor!! – EUNORAU ELECTRIC BIKES (eunorau-ebike.com)
EUNORAU Electric Step-Thru beach cruiser style Bike 500W peak!! Colorful panel+torque sensor!! – EUNORAU ELECTRIC BIKES (eunorau-ebike.com)
Well, I am 73 (will be 74 next riding season) and I have a Gazelle Arroyo with the torque sensing Bosch mid drive motor and no throttle. My rides are leisure/pleasure rides in the 10 to 15 MPH range that you describe you are looking for. I can tell you I love the way my Gazelle rides and I get by just fine without the throttle. When I come to a hill, I just bump up the assist level and shift to the appropriate gear to get me up the hill with as much or as little effort as I am willing to put into it. Would I like to have a throttle? Yes. I have another ebike with a hub drive (cadence sensing) and throttle that I use when I have my Gazelle in the shop for tune ups. I would NEVER trade the natural ride of my Gazelle Arroyo just to have a throttle. I am sure there are some ebikes with a throttle AND torque sensing that ride better than my hub drive spare ebike. I would like to try one of them sometime. But I guess what I am suggesting to you is to try to test ride what you are considering before you buy. You may be surprised how the test rides change your priorities.
Stefan Mikes
Gravel e-biker
- Region
- Europe
- City
- Mazovia, PL
While I own (among others) a 28 mph e-bike (Specialized Turbo Vado) - a mid-drive, it allows me reducing the assistance so much I can ride slowly with traditional cyclists and not get very much tired at the same time. The other e-bike (Giant Trance E+; a mid-drive) is what is called Class 1 in the U.S. With low Eco assist set, I can ride with slow traditional cyclists as well, also and specifically off-road. The third e-bike is a 250 W hub-drive motor e-bike with pedal assistance, and that bike is unable to ride slowly really...
indianajo
Well-Known Member
I'm age 70. I have no suspension, so I find 8 mph average on road just fine. I do peak at 30 mph downhill, but I climb up the next at more like 6 at the top.
I pedal myself mostly, with a geared hub motor that doesn't drag unpowered. However we have days that blow 25-30 mph in my face, and my route doesn't vary. So I bought electricity no more 6 hour commutes. I ride 8 mph whatever the wind is doing.
PAS was too fast for the pavement I ride, 11 mph minimum. Maybe more expensive bikes will go slower. Mine would not. So I have a throttle, which I use when the wind requires it. Or on days when my knee acts up, I'm a Viet Nam era vet with no cartlege in my knees and bone spurs besides. There is also the occasional day when I need to accomplish my commute in 2.2 hours instead of a normal 3.5. I do that occasionally. Torque sensing would be nice, but mostly is not available on lower priced bikes with hubmotor. Mid-drives except brose, yamaha, & shimano drag when pedaled unpowered, so once you buy one of those you are addicted. Like buying an electric wheel chair. My heart+lungs need the 70 miles a week, if I'm going to be retired longer than my father, that had a stroke 2 years after he sat down. Was out 10 miles today, 40 degree & 20 mph SW wind that fought me all the way home. No electricity in the winter, it is too cold for LiIon batteries. My battery is under a heat pad in the garage.
I pedal myself mostly, with a geared hub motor that doesn't drag unpowered. However we have days that blow 25-30 mph in my face, and my route doesn't vary. So I bought electricity no more 6 hour commutes. I ride 8 mph whatever the wind is doing.
PAS was too fast for the pavement I ride, 11 mph minimum. Maybe more expensive bikes will go slower. Mine would not. So I have a throttle, which I use when the wind requires it. Or on days when my knee acts up, I'm a Viet Nam era vet with no cartlege in my knees and bone spurs besides. There is also the occasional day when I need to accomplish my commute in 2.2 hours instead of a normal 3.5. I do that occasionally. Torque sensing would be nice, but mostly is not available on lower priced bikes with hubmotor. Mid-drives except brose, yamaha, & shimano drag when pedaled unpowered, so once you buy one of those you are addicted. Like buying an electric wheel chair. My heart+lungs need the 70 miles a week, if I'm going to be retired longer than my father, that had a stroke 2 years after he sat down. Was out 10 miles today, 40 degree & 20 mph SW wind that fought me all the way home. No electricity in the winter, it is too cold for LiIon batteries. My battery is under a heat pad in the garage.
PatriciaK
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Pacific Northwest and Piedmont Triad
I'm 67, have a Giant (Now Momentum, a Giant subsidiary) La Free E+2 mid drive (no throttle, no problem in the hilly area I live in), and in auto mode I can ride as slow as I want, and very smoothly, too!
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Mike TowpathTraveler
Well-Known Member
63. Riding a Haibike Full FatSix. Yamaha PW mid drive.
The best and most efficient bicycling is done via "spinning" the pedals; keeping the lightest amount of possible pressure on the legs and knees. This is how touring cyclists stay in the saddle for 80 plus miles days and coming back for more the next day and the next day. 70 to 90 RPM. YMMV. So too, your own comfort level while spinning.
And you spin by using the lowest gear range possible to stay in that 70 to 90 RPM range. This also happens to extract the best mileage potential out of a fully charged battery, another win-win for spinning. On the Haibike, I pretty much always start out with the chain on the biggest rear cassette ring, and being a Yamaha, either the big chain ring or the smallest, it does not matter. Staying in that recommended cadence RPM of 70 to 90 RPM, you shift up to keep the desired RPM. Hill ahead? Down shift, again, keeping in mind staying at 70 to 90 RPM.
I cannot speak to a rear hub motor, this is all for how to get the best mileage and least knee strain on a mid-drive ebike.
In regards to people going 20 plus mph on their ebikes? Well, I have found that in my peak summer time conditioning, if I hit a 16 plus mph average speed on a typical 20 mile run I do, I am really booking along more then that to get that 16 average. I tend to think those who are reporting 20 and above average speeds are not doing it for very long. You really, really have to be in tip top cycling condition to do that, with the average Yamaha or Bosch mid drive.......
Take those reported 20 or 28 mile per hour rides with a very big grain of salt, cause I think we got some internet Lance Armstrongs on the site!
Stefan Mikes
Gravel e-biker
- Region
- Europe
- City
- Mazovia, PL
That's why I often ask such a person to demonstrate some recorded Strava or RideWithGPS rides...Take those reported 20 or 28 mile per hour rides with a very big grain of salt, cause I think we got some internet Lance Armstrongs on the site!
6zfshdb
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Northeast Pennsylvania
Both mid and rear hub drive bikes will let you ride slowly but the methods used to do so vary greatly. As others have said, some bikes are better equipped to do this than others. IMO, torque sensors are better at regulating lower speeds but it can be done with just a cadence sensor as well. Either sensor takes some practice to master. The trick it to TEST RIDE as many bikes as you can to find the one that works best for you! This can't be stressed enough! By all means, take the advice of others but make your own decision based on personal experience!
I'm 74 and ride mostly as you plan to do. All my bikes have throttles but I use them sparingly. Sure, I can ride without one but to me, the throttle is insurance against having a mechanical or physical incident which makes it difficult or impossible to pedal home. Bikes equipped with a throttle are considered class 2 and are prohibited in some locations. It's best to check the local laws in the areas you plan to ride.
When I ride with my wife or a group using pedal assist and torque or cadence sensors, I sometimes have trouble matching my speed with theirs. I find I have to repeatedly pedal and coast to keep pace. This is particularly a problem at low speeds. There is nothing wrong with doing this except the constant starting & stopping of the motor wastes energy. You get maximum efficiency when using steady pedal pressure to maintain a constant speed. This is another area where a throttle can be useful. When I can't sync my speed with others using torque & cadence sensors, I set the speed I want using the throttle and apply a comfortable amount of pedal pressure. This way, I'm assisting the bike rather than it assisting me. Tests have shown that I gain around 14% in range per charge using this procedure.
I'm 74 and ride mostly as you plan to do. All my bikes have throttles but I use them sparingly. Sure, I can ride without one but to me, the throttle is insurance against having a mechanical or physical incident which makes it difficult or impossible to pedal home. Bikes equipped with a throttle are considered class 2 and are prohibited in some locations. It's best to check the local laws in the areas you plan to ride.
When I ride with my wife or a group using pedal assist and torque or cadence sensors, I sometimes have trouble matching my speed with theirs. I find I have to repeatedly pedal and coast to keep pace. This is particularly a problem at low speeds. There is nothing wrong with doing this except the constant starting & stopping of the motor wastes energy. You get maximum efficiency when using steady pedal pressure to maintain a constant speed. This is another area where a throttle can be useful. When I can't sync my speed with others using torque & cadence sensors, I set the speed I want using the throttle and apply a comfortable amount of pedal pressure. This way, I'm assisting the bike rather than it assisting me. Tests have shown that I gain around 14% in range per charge using this procedure.
AHicks
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Snow Bird - Summer S.E. Michigan, Winter Gulf Coast North Central Fl.
Another thought. FREQUENTLY we see people absolutely frozen with indecision here, that have been looking for months. I would advise that no matter how hard you look, there is no perfect bike available. When you've done some homework, enough to avoid really bad decisions, BUY A BIKE and start riding it! Get off the side lines and on the bandwagon! Worst case is the first bike will be a learning experience. You will become a MUCH more educated buyer for your next one.
There's a really tough leap to make regarding spending the money for that first bike. Pretty sure most of us will remember that one. Once made, most of us find it's a game changer, one that changes your life. Think smile that won't go away for weeks! Further, the purchase of that second bike will not be near the issue the first one was. -Al
There's a really tough leap to make regarding spending the money for that first bike. Pretty sure most of us will remember that one. Once made, most of us find it's a game changer, one that changes your life. Think smile that won't go away for weeks! Further, the purchase of that second bike will not be near the issue the first one was. -Al
6zfshdb
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Northeast Pennsylvania
I agree!
Also keep in mind when looking at bikes that things like handlebars, grips, saddles and suspension seatposts can easily be changed to suit your individual needs.
Saratoga Dave
Well-Known Member
BIg plus to what AHicks says - it’s Al, right? Hardly anyone buys the right bike the first time out of the gate... it turns out you ride differently than you thought you would, you are more adventurous than you thought you were, whatever. My second ebike was better focused than my first, and I got it completely right with my third. Of course, the fourth goes off in another direction as an alternate to #3, but we don’t need to go into that...
There is a lot to be said for just getting in the game, for no other reason than to enjoy that much more time with it. I’m looking at 70 this year myself, and I intend to match or exceed last year’s mileage as long as I can get away with it.
There is a lot to be said for just getting in the game, for no other reason than to enjoy that much more time with it. I’m looking at 70 this year myself, and I intend to match or exceed last year’s mileage as long as I can get away with it.
If your trails are relatively flat with only mild inclines then just about any assist option might work well for you. Personally I didn't like the cadence based assist bike that I rode, it didn't have the feel of riding a regular bike. I did like a throttle only bike because I could feather the throttle for assist just when I wanted it and that could make it feel like a natural pedal bike experience but with assist when wanted. Some riders seem to like to just throttle along without even pedaling, that isn't for me as I just don't get the point of recreational riding a bicycle that way. The most natural and intuitive to me is the torque sensor though. Just set the assist level desired and let the torque sensing function do the rest.
If you are a Costco member they are selling a Raleigh 250w hub motor bike with torque sensing for $1099. Nice thing about costco is if you find you don't like it you can just return it without questions, I think within 90 days for an ebike. If you don't have a Costco membership the same bike (as well as a low step model) is available from other sellers for a couple hundred dollars more but then you would lose the Costco return policy. I've never seen this bike in person but it has good reviews including a couple reviews on the Costco web site, here is one:
"Hello after my stroke in 2011 have been riding ebikes and even before. Have a electrical backround and very impressed with the smooth power and amazing range..about double my other ebike A Genze bought a few years back, also sold at Costco then. I'm in my 60's and need to stay healthy and active during these times with covid and restrictive contact with no gyms open...The perfect social distance machine...A smart ebike and it looks fantastic. Like the smooth almost auto transmission feel..Has 5 assist levels and three sensors for seamless use. Can turn off e-part and use as a bike or in eco-low to turbo mode mode and get 55-60 miles ( eco-mid level) really, even weighing at 235 lbs....Can't do that on my older genze....wow Rented a couple since then Raleigh is a great choice with rack and fenders and built in lights for any bike under 2100.00 . Get a pro bike shop to build...comes in 9 parts and need to know about wiring the lights...even with tax and pro bike build ( 169.00 local ) still under 2000.00 and Raleigh is quality stuff..Get out there and enjoy the outdoors, its the best free gym in the world and explore around you, and the Bay Area...no excuses now...anyone can ride it so, go for it...ride into 2021 Jay"
sounds impressive to me, has fenders and a rack, nice features at a bargain price with unbeatable Costco return policy.
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