Choosing FS e-bike for large rider for mixed offroad / paved trail use

[Stefan Mikes]

In your opinion, what are the benefits of the e-SUV over the e-MTB?

e-MTB is strictly designed to ride technical singletrack. It is hopeless on the pavement. Typically, MTBers carry their bikes to the beginning of the trail with cars.
e-SUV is an all-rounder, often equipped with lights, rack, and a kickstand. Also, the e-SUV tyres are more forgiving on the pavement.

 

[Nomad]

In your opinion, what are the benefits of the e-SUV over the e-MTB?

As I understand it e-SUV would apply to bikes like Turbo Tero X (compared to e-MTB Turbo Levo) or Powerfly (compared to Rail).

Other than being slightly less expensive and more likely to come with racks / fenders installed, what makes these better for all around use?

Is the geometry significantly different?

Would I be just as comfortable riding paved bike trails on one of the e-MTB with a stem riser to sit a bit more upright as I would on the e-SUV?

the suv version comes with wider tires in some cases which spreads the load more among other things. A key thing to do is look at differences between the suv version and emtb version to see what they actually are.

 

[PDoz]

Hello everyone, I am curious to get some insight into what e-bike might fit my use.

I plan to use this both for cruising a paved bike trail, but also for offroad use. Primarily riding gravel forest service roads, but some dedicated single track. Typically I don't ride beyond green trails on my old non-E Rockhopper, but hoping to venture into some blue trails soon.

I would like to get a full suspension bike that is comfortable to ride for these scenarios. I am a big rider (~6'4" and ~260 lbs), and plan to pull a Burley kids trailer from time to time. Ideally I would like a large battery, or option to add range extender that works smoothly (either mounting to frame and attaching with cable, or if swapping out then simple tool-less swap for trailside change). Keeping the bike weight under 60 lbs for more compatibility with hitch racks is also a consideration.

I had originally been looking into FS e-MTB like Specialized Turbo Levo, Norco Fluid VLT (900 Wh battery is appealing) and some of the Biktrix fat-tire models, though I would prefer to get something from a LBS for better support with any issues. I know there are bike shops selling Specialized, Trek, Norco, Marin, Bianchi, Transition, Scott bikes nearby, but there may be other brands within a reasonable drive as well.

As I read more threads about these, it sounds like getting a true e-MTB may not be the best/most comfortable option for my real intended use, and perhaps a crossover that may have more upright positioning might work better on graveled roads / paved trails. Still, I'd like to keep the option open to do some single track with some mild technical riding.

So summary of desired features:
- full suspension
- versatile use: paved bike trail, gravel / dirt roads with poor maintenance, some single track riding
- tubeless setup option
- large battery / option for easy addition of range extender
- comfortable ride for large rider, and able to pull trailer with kids
- bike weight 60 lbs or under for hitch carrier

Any suggestions of a good option to look into? Or am I trying to ask too much from a single bike and should really be getting two different e-bikes (not currently an option)? In that case I would prioritize riding graveled roads / poorly maintained forest service roads over true MTB single track or paved riding.

Thanks!

How hard would it be for you to lose a bit of weight before tackling those blue runs?

As a rule, trek tend to be on the generous side of manufacturer approved weight, and also offer reasonable warranty on components. You're not far off their figures for, eg, the Rail . ( total weight 300 lb, bike 50-59 lb ) . The hard choice is going to be carbon vs alloy - as in how much extra do you pay to avoid having to lose another 9 lb....and are you comfortable towing with carbon? ( sorry for opening that can of worms)

Now, I realize you'll be well over that 300 kg limit when towing - but it's the blue runs that are going to be bike destroying, not wandering along trails with kids in a trailer. The bike is designed to cope with big drops at steep. Nb I'm just extrapolating from experience - when out kids were in trailers my 6'2 wife went looking for a bike to tow with. All the cross over bikes had flimsy frames that flexed visibly - an XL size frame having more leverage etc.

If losing the weight doesn't sound appealing, then start saving. You could hop aboard a trek exe now and be within the combined weight limit ! Go hit black runs and have warranty! I wouldn't be towing with one, though.....at least not up steep hills.

 

[PDoz]

Saying it like it is.

Just to be clear, the is no accusation re the weight. At 6'4" it'd be easy to exceed the weight capacity of most bikes with a lean but muscular rider

 

[Nomad]

Just to be clear, the is no accusation re the weight. At 6'4" it'd be easy to exceed the weight capacity of most bikes with a lean but muscular rider

XL bikes should have a higher wait rating than a L,M,S or XS but do they?

 

[Stefan Mikes]

XL bikes should have a higher wait rating than a L,M,S or XS but do they?

No. The wheels are the limiting factor in the first place, and these are not depending on the e-bike size. The other factor is the suspension, and the last one is any carbon fibre components.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Okay I can confirm my Schwalbe Eddy Current has no markings on load capacity. Only this.

It is never marked on the tyres or rims. Only the rims (that come with 28 or 32 or 36 spoke holes) are certified for a specific "total system weight" and also have ASTM rating related to how harsh the ride on them could be. ASTM Category 1 is for paved roads only (for racing road bikes) to Category 5 for extreme jumps and riding technical downhill at speeds over 40 km/h (25 mph).

Total system weight TSW is for the rider, bike and any cargo.

According to DT Swiss. a carbon rim for for a road bike might have TSW of 109 kg (240 lbs), then there come 130, 150 and 180 kg rims (the latter are for bike-packing). The TSW is not the load on a single wheel, this is a total load.

Next, there come the spokes, where there is a compromise between their strength and weight, and the number of spokes in a wheel is important. Eventually there comes a hub (there are better and worse hubs).

If you have ever gone through the pain of building a wheel Rome, you would know that. The DT Swiss wheel that is being built for me has the rim certified fot 150 kg TSW, with 32 spokes, ASTM rating 4, will have sturdy 2.34 mm spokes, and the hub is DT Swiss 350, 32 spoke holes.

Here, the Structural Weight Limit is for the rider plus any cargo. Notice very low limits on carbon e-bikes. (I wonder whether Specialized has not mismatched the TSW with SWL).

 

[Nomad]

It is never marked on the tyres or rims. Only the rims (that come with 28 or 32 or 36 spoke holes) are certified for a specific "total system weight" and also have ASTM rating related to how harsh the ride on them could be. ASTM Category 1 is for paved roads only (for racing road bikes) to Category 5 for extreme jumps and riding technical downhill at speeds over 40 km/h (25 mph).

Total system weight TSW is for the rider, bike and any cargo.

According to DT Swiss. a carbon rim for for a road bike might have TSW of 109 kg (240 lbs), then there come 130, 150 and 180 kg rims (the latter are for bike-packing). The TSW is not the load on a single wheel, this is a total load.

Next, there come the spokes, where there is a compromise between their strength and weight, and the number of spokes in a wheel is important. Eventually there comes a hub (there are better and worse hubs).

If you have ever gone through the pain of building a wheel Rome, you would know that. The DT Swiss wheel that is being built for me has the rim certified fot 150 kg TSW, with 32 spokes, ASTM rating 4, will have sturdy 2.34 mm spokes, and the hub is DT Swiss 350, 32 spoke holes.

View attachment 150262
Here, the Structural Weight Limit is for the rider plus any cargo. Notice very low limits on carbon e-bikes. (I wonder whether Specialized has not mismatched the TSW with SWL).

In auto industry I can't how many times I've see a vehicle that didn't meet it's weight rating because it didn't have the right tires or someone put aftermarket rims on without checking their weight rating. Point being the system must be rated by its weakest link with a built-in safety margin. One should do the same as far as bikes and don't forget the brakes.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

In auto industry I can't how many times I've see a vehicle that didn't meet it's weight rating because it didn't have the right tires or someone put aftermarket rims on without checking their weight rating. Point being the system must be rated by its weakest link with a built-in safety margin. One should do the same as far as bikes and don't forget the brakes.

I can only speak for the brand making the e-bikes I ride. The Structural Weight Limit for Vado 6.0 is 136 kg (300 lb). I have never exceeded that limit yet the 28-spoke rear wheel of that e-bike gave up after 3 years. Only now the Vados get 32-spoke wheels and I gladly trust the rims are for 150 kg Total System Weight there.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Stefan's Vado is not equipped with front and rear suspension.

Any problem with eyes?

I owned a full-suspension e-MTB and got rid of it. The e-MTB is a kind of a bike to be ridden on a technical single track only, which is as rare in Mazovia Poland as it is in Hawaii

It is not a technical singletrack, and my Vado and Vado SL can handle the terrain. Notice the tree-roots.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

You've seen numerous pics of my riding range on my Emtbs

I've seen too many of them but none on a technical trail. You know, a gnarly single track winding among the trees, rocks, downhill, and all

Your use of a FS e-MTB is as if you tried to kill a fly with a cannon

Just for your information Rome: Gravel bikes typically have no suspension whatsoever.

You call this US$14,000 gravel e-bike "sub par"?

 

[AHicks]

The price of a bike hardly justifies/guarantees it being suitable for all riders. I wouldn't give you 500. for that 14k bike with with my riding needs in mind...

Further, it would appear our OP has completely lost interest in this thread....

 

[linklemming]

The price of a bike hardly justifies/guarantees it being suitable for all riders. I wouldn't give you 500. for that 14k bike with with my riding needs in mind...

Further, it would appear our OP has completely lost interest in this thread....

I think stefan was somehow trying to give credibility to the concept of 'underbiking'.

https://www.merlincycles.com/blog/underbiking-whats-the-point/#:~:text=In a nutshell, underbiking is,on a cross country bike.

Basically it something roadies (who dont like MTBs) do. Its silly IMHO. Why not use the best tool for the job instead of bragging how good your skills are using the worst tool for the job. Maybe its a strava related.
thing.

I worked at a company full of hard core roadies who would all ride together every few days and they all subscribed to this (showing MTBrs how good they were riding the wrong bike for the trail). Complete nonsense

That being said, my gravel/mtbs diy ebikes(surly ogres) which are rigid(no suspension) meets all stefans requirements for the ultimate bragging rights outside of strava. Doesnt rigid fork beat suspension fork? So Ogre > Vado?

If your budget allows for FS, go for it. I dont recall stefan degrading FS when he owned it. Funny how that seems to work

 

[linklemming]

I can only speak for the brand making the e-bikes I ride. The Structural Weight Limit for Vado 6.0 is 136 kg (300 lb). I have never exceeded that limit yet the 28-spoke rear wheel of that e-bike gave up after 3 years. Only now the Vados get 32-spoke wheels and I gladly trust the rims are for 150 kg Total System Weight there.

How did your derive the 150kg number? What is the limit for 28spoke wheels. I would love to use a website that showed me this data. Strava?

 

[AHicks]

I don't do any hardcore off roading, so I struggle with the extra weight/complexity/tuning/expense involved with a rear suspension for my needs. If I were 100lbs lighter (say 150-200ish) and spent more time dodging/dealing with trail obstacles and jumps, I'd have one in a heart beat. LOTS of suspension tuning experience with nearly an entire lifetime spent on powered dirt and snow toys in my past. I get how nice they are when dialed in and working well. I just struggle justifying all that with my riding habits/needs.

As far as front suspension, ANYTHING is better than nothing in my book.....

 

[Stefan Mikes]

How did your derive the 150kg number? What is the limit for 28spoke wheels. I would love to use a website that showed me this data. Strava?

Check the website of DT Swiss.

 

[TrevorB]

The eMTBs are designed to handle max weight when bike is being used for full on MTBing. If you ride more sedately on forestery roads and round town frame and components should handle more weight. Just don't expect factory to support any warranty claims for breakages.

This group test has weights and trailer options in handy place which may help your research.

The best e-mountainbike of 2023 – The biggest group test yet:⁠ 30 e-mountainbikes head-to-head

What’s the best eMTB of 2022? We tested the 13 most exciting eMTBs of the season and tell you what you need to consider before buying.

ebike-mtb.com

 

[newheights]

I'm thinking I will get the Turbo Tero X, 5 or 6. I demo'd some of these bikes and it was just really comfortable ride. The 28 spoke wheel had me looking at other options but I think I'll just replace them with 32 or 36 spoke wheels if they crumple. The brose motor couple with the drive train seems much smoother than the others I tried (Shimano ep8 based). Just wish they had even bigger battery options.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Just wish they had even bigger battery options.

A bigger battery means more weight!

Good you have already narrowed your choices!