pedal pins and cleats

[spokewrench]

After I bought an e-bike in 2020, I found that the cleats on the resin pedals often cut my shin right through my pants. Sooner or later my shin was bound to collide with the pedal as I walked beside the bike to push, pull, or turn it, usually in the garage. I didn't know why cleats were necessary. I'd never been injured in the days of block pedals.

The cleats on another bike with resin pedals also cut me sometimes, as did the cleats on metal pedals. I hated cleats for another reason. You won't get your foot perfectly positioned when you first put it on a pedal. I like to make corrections, to get the ball of my foot over the spindle and, to minimize leverage that might snap a spindle, get it as close as possible to the crank. It was easy to take the pressure off a block pedal and slide my foot a little, but with cleats I had to lift my foot and try my luck again.

Unlike the resin pedals, the metal ones began to click after a thousand miles. I wanted to replace them anyway. I'd noticed that my feet tilted outboard because the pedals didn't extend far enough from the cranks to support the width of my shoes. I chose the red metal ones because they gave me wider support, had 3 rows of ball bearings, had reflectors, and had removable pins. Slipping had never been a problem with block pedals. I could unscrew the pins on my new pedals to test for slippage. If it wasn't a problem, I'd have safer pedals that would make it easier to reposition my feet.

The material of soles affects traction. With two different kinds of shoe, slippage was no problem even when I walked across wet grass to mount. With that bike, I don't have to worry about my shin, and I can position my feet better.

I was so pleased that I bought the yellow ones, more expensive ones of the same brand, to replace the resin pedals on my other bike although the original pedals were fine. I discovered too late that they have no reflectors and that unscrewing the pins would cause the pedals to fall apart. I do not agree with the manufacturer's idea of higher quality. I took the trouble to grind down the outboard pins to see if there was an improvement. There was. Now I'll grind down the rest.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

My love-hate relationship with aggressive platform pedal spikes continues 2 years after the inital attack. The downsides are just as you described.

The gentle spikes on my cheap stock platforms made theoretical sense, as I like to pull back a little at bottom stroke sometimes. But in exchange for being harmless, they added little real grip in any direction.

Much more aggressive spikes came into my life when I went to elongated pedals after riding my neighbor's pricey Catalysts. Bought the only affordable elongated pedal instead — the ROCKBROS "wide" platform. But what I gained in grip and efficiency and mid-foot position, and what I saved in money with these pedals, I lost in blood below the knees.

At first. After a few weeks of looking like a crime scene, my legs learned to stay out of the spikes' way without my supervision. They still get bitten now and then, but not enough to give up the benefits these pedals provide — including LOTS of grip with any shoe I've tried.

 

[spokewrench]

The gentle spikes on my cheap stock platforms made theoretical sense, as I like to pull back a little at bottom stroke sometimes. But in exchange for being harmless, they added little real grip in any direction.

At first. After a few weeks of looking like a crime scene, my legs learned to stay out of the spikes' way without my supervision. They still get bitten now and then, but not enough to give up the benefits these pedals provide — including LOTS of grip with any shoe I've tried.

I sometimes tried extending my stroke by pulling through bottom dead center when I was trying to understand what was wrong with my BB. The muscles that pull the foot back aren't very powerful. The quads, which push the foot forward, are the most powerful in the body. I like to use them to kick forward at top dead center, when the glutes can put a lot of weight on a pedal for traction. If I see that my foot needs adjustment, I like to slide it on the upstroke, when pedal pressure is minimal. Even then, they don't slide easily.

Walking or running, a person pushes off with the inboard (big toe) side of the foot. Each time a pedal wounded my shin, it seemed that an outboard cleat or pin had done it. Maybe removing outboard pins would leave you with the best of both worlds.

 

[spokewrench]

Much more aggressive spikes came into my life when I went to elongated pedals after riding my neighbor's pricey Catalysts. Bought the only affordable elongated pedal instead — the ROCKBROS "wide" platform.

I'd love to try pedals 5" long. I haven't found BOW Catalysts at Modern Bike or Amazon. I'm skeptical of the explanation on the website. It cites research that says hip muscles, not quads, are the most important in pedaling, and adding support 5" behind the ball of the foot is supposed to transfer the work from the calf muscles to the hip muscles. What hip muscles? If he means glutes, why not say it?

I'd love to dig up the research he cites. Pedaling wouldn't work very well without down pressure from the glutes, but I think quads and calf muscles are the big ones for energy ( force times distance ). I think the big advantage in long pedals is that you can move your foot forward 2.5 inches. To the knee, that's like moving the seat back 2.5 inches. It reduces knee flex by 6 degrees or more, allowing more mechanical advantage to glutes, quads, and maybe calfs, with less pressure on knee caps.

 

[Sparky731]

To avoid having my foot slide off the platform pedals on my e-bikes I have changed to MTB pedals on all, and at my wife’s request per the same problem, we changed to MTB pedals on her two e-bikes as well.

The MTB pedal pegs work nicely both as a shoe-sole grabber and a shin shredder.

 

[spokewrench]

To avoid having my foot slide off the platform pedals on my e-bikes I have changed to MTB pedals on all, and at my wife’s request per the same problem, we changed to MTB pedals on her two e-bikes as well.

The MTB pedal pegs work nicely both as a shoe-sole grabber and a shin shredder.

How about your soles? Some manufacturers think tread is what counts, but I evaluate them by coefficient of friction under all conditions. One pair of my pedaling shoes is a Caterpiller product that looks like bowling shoes. I've bought them repeatedly over the years because I like the rubber. The other pair is a brand I discovered 3 months ago. Like good deck shoes, they have such a high COF that they squeak on the kitchen floor. I ordered a second pair in case they quit making them.

From 10 to 19, I wore Army boots. Nobody I knew did that, but I loved them because I could rely on the plain rubber soles and heels for traction. My father, on the other hand, liked moccasins that looked like deck shoes but had hard polyurethane soles. I could tell by the sound that they were dangerous.

At 40 I bought chore boots whose aggressive tread couldn't make up for the rubber. They were very treacherous on wet wooden steps. When I was 60 a couple down the street called upon me to look after their property when they were away, which was most of the time. When there was any chance of condensation or rainwater on their sealed garage floor, I'd wear my heavy, stiff, steel-toed shoes. Walking over there in those shoes was unpleasant, but nothing else I had was safe when that floor was wet.

 

[Sparky731]

How about your soles? Some manufacturers think tread is what counts, but I evaluate them by coefficient of friction under all conditions. One pair of my pedaling shoes is a Caterpiller product that looks like bowling shoes. I've bought them repeatedly over the years because I like the rubber. The other pair is a brand I discovered 3 months ago. Like good deck shoes, they have such a high COF that they squeak on the kitchen floor. I ordered a second pair in case they quit making them.

From 10 to 19, I wore Army boots. Nobody I knew did that, but I loved them because I could rely on the plain rubber soles and heels for traction. My father, on the other hand, liked moccasins that looked like deck shoes but had hard polyurethane soles. I could tell by the sound that they were dangerous.

At 40 I bought chore boots whose aggressive tread couldn't make up for the rubber. They were very treacherous on wet wooden steps. When I was 60 a couple down the street called upon me to look after their property when they were away, which was most of the time. When there was any chance of condensation or rainwater on their sealed garage floor, I'd wear my heavy, stiff, steel-toed shoes. Walking over there in those shoes was unpleasant, but nothing else I had was safe when that floor was wet.

My biking shoes are flip-flops. Seriously. Thousands of miles.
When it gets too cold I wear my pickleball court shoes.

 

[spokewrench]

My biking shoes are flip-flops. Seriously. Thousands of miles.
When it gets too cold I wear my pickleball court shoes.

It looks as if pickleball shoes would hold without pins. As I pedal, I've been spot-checking my feet for cumulative slippage. So far I haven't seen any. If I do, I can reinstall the pins on the inboard sides of the pedals. It's probably the outboard ones that have gashed my shin.

 

[PHXRDR]

After I bought an e-bike in 2020, I found that the cleats on the resin pedals often cut my shin right through my pants. Sooner or later my shin was bound to collide with the pedal as I walked beside the bike to push, pull, or turn it, usually in the garage. I didn't know why cleats were necessary. I'd never been injured in the days of block pedals.

The cleats on another bike with resin pedals also cut me sometimes, as did the cleats on metal pedals. I hated cleats for another reason. You won't get your foot perfectly positioned when you first put it on a pedal. I like to make corrections, to get the ball of my foot over the spindle and, to minimize leverage that might snap a spindle, get it as close as possible to the crank. It was easy to take the pressure off a block pedal and slide my foot a little, but with cleats I had to lift my foot and try my luck again.

Unlike the resin pedals, the metal ones began to click after a thousand miles. I wanted to replace them anyway. I'd noticed that my feet tilted outboard because the pedals didn't extend far enough from the cranks to support the width of my shoes. I chose the red metal ones because they gave me wider support, had 3 rows of ball bearings, had reflectors, and had removable pins. Slipping had never been a problem with block pedals. I could unscrew the pins on my new pedals to test for slippage. If it wasn't a problem, I'd have safer pedals that would make it easier to reposition my feet.

The material of soles affects traction. With two different kinds of shoe, slippage was no problem even when I walked across wet grass to mount. With that bike, I don't have to worry about my shin, and I can position my feet better.

I was so pleased that I bought the yellow ones, more expensive ones of the same brand, to replace the resin pedals on my other bike although the original pedals were fine. I discovered too late that they have no reflectors and that unscrewing the pins would cause the pedals to fall apart. I do not agree with the manufacturer's idea of higher quality. I took the trouble to grind down the outboard pins to see if there was an improvement. There was. Now I'll grind down the rest.View attachment 182165View attachment 182166

Most folks see the pedal with pins coupled with a dedicated cycling shoe as an integrated system.
Of course you don't need that kind of system, but the results are quite remarkable. Actually feels like being glued to the bike.
I've used the same pair of Five Ten Freerider for over ten years with various pinned pedals, over three bikes and 30,000 miles and NEVER slipped off the pedal.

 

[spokewrench]

Most folks see the pedal with pins coupled with a dedicated cycling shoe as an integrated system.
Of course you don't need that kind of system, but the results are quite remarkable. Actually feels like being glued to the bike.
I've used the same pair of Five Ten Freerider for over ten years with various pinned pedals, over three bikes and 30,000 miles and NEVER slipped off the pedal.

Most folks? Not @Sparky731 ! I suppose I rode 10,000 miles on block pedals in all kinds of shoes and all kinds of weather. If I'd slipped off even once, I think I'd remember it.

For decades, my brother raced and commuted on tubular tires that he glued to his rims. His dedicated cycling shoes were nothing like the Five Ten Freeriders I find on the web. I've handled his bikes and ridden with him on one he loaned me. I'm sure they had no pins. I think I would have noticed if they'd had cleats as aggressive as those on the low-end pedals on four e-bikes I've bought. He shaved his legs, and I never saw a pedal injury on his shin.

Pedaling 30,000 miles in the same pair of shoes sounds amazing. I see Five Ten Freeriders are advertised for mountain biking, as are the pedals I've seen with pins. In mountain biking, one might get wet clay on his soles. It's slippery and can be tenacious. If I had clay stuck to my soles, I'd want pedals with pins or aggressive cleats.

 

[Nvreloader]

Guys
If I can ask a question that goes along this line,
What is a good pair of shin guards that would hide under loose pants legs.
My shin can't stand any more shredding, or they'll have to be cut off below the knees.
I have a pair of shin guards that are the baseball playing and they don't work good.
Soft and flexible/hide able would be perfect..
Your thoughts and suggestions...
Tia

 

[PHXRDR]

Guys
If I can ask a question that goes along this line,
What is a good pair of shin guards that would hide under loose pants legs.
My shin can't stand any more shredding, or they'll have to be cut off below the knees.
I have a pair of shin guards that are the baseball playing and they don't work good.
Soft and flexible/hide able would be perfect..
Your thoughts and suggestions...
Tia

Jeepers!
Are you slipping off your pedals and banging up your shins? That should be very infrequent if ever.
Please consider looking into a pedal/shoe system.
As I indicated (above), you will be "stuck" to your pedals under all circumstances.
Just because a system like that is a "Mountain" type, it remains superior in street riding as well.
Now, if your shins are beat up by brush and trees due to trail or downhill riding, I'm sorry, I can't help.

 

[PHXRDR]

Guys
If I can ask a question that goes along this line,
What is a good pair of shin guards that would hide under loose pants legs.
My shin can't stand any more shredding, or they'll have to be cut off below the knees.
I have a pair of shin guards that are the baseball playing and they don't work good.
Soft and flexible/hide able would be perfect..
Your thoughts and suggestions...
Tia

It occurred to me that your shin contact could be due to start/stop technique related to riding a step through frame. Is that the case?

 

[spokewrench]

Guys
If I can ask a question that goes along this line,
What is a good pair of shin guards that would hide under loose pants legs.
My shin can't stand any more shredding, or they'll have to be cut off below the knees.
I have a pair of shin guards that are the baseball playing and they don't work good.
Soft and flexible/hide able would be perfect..
Your thoughts and suggestions...
Tia

Do you need pins? Wet or dry, I have no slipping at all on alloy pedals with the pins removed. If others need pins or cleats, maybe it's because they have soles of EVA, which may be more common than real rubber. I wouldn't want EVA soles or tires.

There's another solution that doesn't require rubber soles.

Amazon.com

Instead of pins, they use the same 80-grit surface as the tape used on indoor and outdoor steps. I wasn't having trouble with slipping. I got them because they have roller bearings and safety certification from a testing laboratory. I find them more comfortable than any of the other six kinds I've had in recent years.

 

[PCeBiker]

What is a good pair of shin guards that would hide under loose pants legs.

Soccer shin guards work great.

Instead of pins, they use the same 80-grit surface as the tape used on indoor and outdoor steps.

Same stuff as deck tape for skateboards.
I cut up a 40-grit sanding belt from a belt sander and glued it to my board.
My feet had lots of stiction but I got tore up pretty good when I landed on my board.

 

[spokewrench]

Soccer shin guards work great.

Oh no! Do soccer balls have pins these days? Are they to catch cheaters redhanded? So your shoe won't slip when you kick it?

 

[PCeBiker]

My neice played soccer.
The whole team wore shin pads to protect their shins from kicks from the other players.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

@spokewrench: I didn't really want to participate in this thread but... let the pictures speak for themselves.

Adidas FiveTen Freerider Pro shoes and Crankbrothers Stamp 1 or 3 or 7 size Large is what I have been riding since December 2019. There was a short break of three months when I was experimenting with road and MTB "clipless" pedals and shoes, and I will never return to them.

The main reason for using large traction pin pedals and proper shoes is the combination adds to the pedalling efficiency almost as good as the "clipless" system (you only cannot pull the pedal up with your foot). The pedalling technique is mimicking forward and backwards movements of your feet, which gives a smooth rotation of the cranks, and increases the power transfer from the legs. The feet hold on the pedals as if they were glued! (To remove the feet from the pedals, you need to raise the feet a little, which has become my second nature). I simply cannot ride flat pedals in regular shoes anymore! But... I think a ride shorter than 50 miles is not worthy my time (except the grocery shopping!)

"Shin and calf shredder"? People learn from their mistakes... You need to be really careless to let is happen again and again

 

[spokewrench]

@spokewrench: I didn't really want to participate in this thread but... let the pictures speak for themselves.

Adidas FiveTen Freerider Pro shoes and Crankbrothers Stamp 1 or 3 or 7 size Large is what I have been riding since December 2019. There was a short break of three months when I was experimenting with road and MTB "clipless" pedals and shoes, and I will never return to them.

The main reason for using large traction pin pedals and proper shoes is the combination adds to the pedalling efficiency almost as good as the "clipless" system (you only cannot pull the pedal up with your foot). The pedalling technique is mimicking forward and backwards movements of your feet, which gives a smooth rotation of the cranks, and increases the power transfer from the legs. The feet hold on the pedals as if they were glued! (To remove the feet from the pedals, you need to raise the feet a little, which has become my second nature). I simply cannot ride flat pedals in regular shoes anymore! But... I think a ride shorter than 50 miles is not worthy my time (except the grocery shopping!)

"Shin and calf shredder"? People learn from their mistakes... You need to be really careless to let is happen again and again

@Stefan Mikes Why did you not want to participate in this thread? Those soles are Stealth Rubber, developed for rock climbing. Do you really need those pins or do you just like their looks?

One of the pictures speaks for itself. You pedal with your arch over the spindle. To me, that's bizarre. If I'm going to be on a ladder rung several minutes, standing that way is more secure and takes strain off my calves. Climbing that way would greatly reduce the power I could get from my legs because it would marginalize my calves.

There was a time when I would routinely pedal a 3-speed 50 miles in an afternoon on very hilly terrain. I couldn't have done it without my quads (shin extenders), which Raleigh seating let me use efficiently, and my calves (foot extenders), which I could employ by putting the balls of my feet over the spindles. Jimmy Carter withdrew the US from the Moscow Olympics the year my brother trained with the bicycle team, but for years, 300 miles in a day was normal for him. He pedaled on the ball of his foot. When I rode with him, I didn't see any pins or sharp cleats on either bike. Sometimes he used clips, designed to keep the ball of the foot over the spindle. I don't know how many miles a week he pedals in his seventies, but after riding e-bikes half an hour with me, he saw no advantage for himself.

You say a ride shorter than 50 miles isn't worth your time except to buy groceries. I believe you said you rented an e-bike in Ireland to ride 21 miles. Had you run out of groceries?

I could shift my bike into reverse to ride out of the garage, but then passersby would know I'm a snob. I walk beside it, looking over my shoulder as I turn the handlebars to steer the back wheel around obstacles. It would be awfully careless to continue to use hazardous pedals just because they appeal to the snob in me.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

@Stefan Mikes Why did you not want to participate in this thread?

I wrote my opinion on the value of traction pin platform pedals and appropriate shoes too many times in these Forums...

Those soles are Stealth Rubber, developed for rock climbing. Do you really need those pins or do you just like their looks?

The shoe soles and traction pins work in unison; you would not put cleated shoes on had you no clipless pedals, either.

One of the pictures speaks for itself. You pedal with your arch over the spindle. To me, that's bizarre. If I'm going to be on a ladder rung several minutes, standing that way is more secure and takes strain off my calves. Climbing that way would greatly reduce the power I could get from my legs because it would marginalize my calves.

If you look closely at the picture, it is only the shoe resting on the pedal, no foot involved

You say a ride shorter than 50 miles isn't worth your time except to buy groceries. I believe you said you rented an e-bike in Ireland to ride 21 miles. Had you run out of groceries?

Unfortunately, there is nothing more to see in that beautiful corner of Co. Donegal The LBS of Carrick that rents e-bikes has the motto: "You will never run out of battery on our rented e-bike!" I can see a reason behind it

Check "Silver Strand Malin Beg" on Google Maps

Yes, I could suffer riding in trainers and flat pedals for 34 km Hated it!