Upgrading Vado SL Shimano Drivetrain From 10 to 12-speed

[Stefan Mikes]

I should have bought a Vado SL 5.0... Very happy with my heavily modded Vado SL 4.0 EQ (10-speed Shimano drivetrain) but now I am in the need to install a wide range cassette to get actual MTB gearing range. Even if possibilities exist to go with a huge 11-speed cassette, I think the drivetrain swap should be a radical one, so 12-speed drivetrain is in the plans.

I want you to help me with my decisions. Please do not talk SRAM... I simply do not want it.

The rear wheel of a Vado SL 4.0 might have the hub identical to the one used for SL 5.0 (it is named Specialized Alloy Hub 12x148 mm, thru-axle).

I think these components make sense:

1. Replace the HG+ freehub with a Microspline one. Here is where I am moving in the darkness. No experience at all!
   Would that set do? https://r2-bike.com/DT-SWISS-Freehu...-12-speed-12x142-mm-12x148-mm-BOOST-Thru-Axle
2. Replace the cassette. 10-51T
   Perhaps this one? https://www.rosebikes.pl/shimano-slx-cs-m7100-cassette-12-speed-2678997
3. Replace the derailleur.
   What do you think? https://bike.shimano.com/en-EU/product/component/slx-m7100/RD-M7100-SGS.html
4. Shifter. Vado SL 5.0 uses Shimano SLX RapidFire Plus shifter to be installed together with the Tektro brake lever assembly.
   This one? https://bike.shimano.com/en-US/product/component/slx-m7100/SL-M7100-IR.html
5. Will the shifter come with the core of the cable in the set?
6. A 12-speed Shimano chain, the number of links to be determined.

In the next step, I would be playing with selection of a small chainring, such as 32T but that comes next.

Now: Has anyone tried to swap the Vado SL 4.0 drivetrain for the 12-speed one? Please advise. You might talk about the electronic drivetrain but then please provide a lot of detail.

@Allan47.7339: Ideas? You have always been good with giving excellent advices.
@e-levity: Can you help?

I would like to know about the Microspline Freehub body as much as possible. What is the one used on Vado SL 5.0?
The shifter: Does the Vado SL 5.0 shifter have a gear indicator? (I prefer not to have one). Is this shifter mounted on the brake lever assembly?

Thank you in advance for any help!

 

[sanyata]

I did this switch over on my 4.0SL and I'm really pleased with the results, mainly due to the hills I have to climb. So, here's my thoughts per item:

1. That looks good. Maybe you could email or call DT Swiss for confirmation. I built a whole new 32 spoke wheel with a Shimano hub to get the Microspline with a stouter wheel.

2. 10-51 SLX will work perfectly. On my SL, I'm running a XT but on my Levo I have the SLX and it has taken a beating and still going strong.

(1&2). - I noticed Garbaruk offers a Shimano HG cassette. It's pricy but eliminates any hub conversion worries. The newer 5.0's are SRAM and the older models had Shimano HG's, I believe.

3. That derailer is the right one. I have a XT derailer and shifter, only because I found a used take off on Craigslist for super cheap. Otherwise, I'd have gotten the SLX based on its performance on my Levo.

4. That shifter you've listed will not work. It is an I-Spec mount and will not mate to the Tektro brake lever. Also, if ordering new, you have the choice between an indicator or not. You need the bar mount version:

https://bike.shimano.com/en-US/product/component/slx-m7100/SL-M7100-R.html

5. I don't know about the shifter core/cable coming with the shifter because, as I said, I bought mine used. However, I did replace the cable with a new one and it was a simple process and easy to do.

I didn't change the tooth count on mine but did switch to a Garbaruk chainring based on your recommendations.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I noticed Garbaruk offers a Shimano HG cassette. It's pricy but eliminates any hub conversion worries.

That is very interesting! I need to have a closer look!

4. That shifter you've listed will not work. It is an I-Spec mount and will not mate to the Tektro brake lever. Also, if ordering new, you have the choice between an indicator or not. You need the bar mount version:

Thank you for that! Yes now I realise I need the bar mounted version.

Thank you again for sharing the priceless information!

 

[Bavi]

Stefan, I don't know if this is still the case but wary when buying Shimano stuff online. During covid lockdown when bike components were in very short supply, I came across several pretty poor quality shifters that I presume to be fakes (admittedly lower range stuff tho) and these were from UK dealers not Ali Express. All the Shimano shifters I've ever bought have come complete with the cable inner

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Stefan, I don't know if this is still the case but wary when buying Shimano stuff online. During covid lockdown when bike components were in very short supply, I came across several pretty poor quality shifters that I presume to be fakes (admittedly lower range stuff tho) and these were from UK dealers not Ali Express. All the Shimano shifters I've ever bought have come complete with the cable inner

Thank you for the useful information, Bavi!

This shifter looks genuine to me (clamp mounted):

Manetka SHIMANO SLX SL-M7100 - CentrumRowerowe.pl

Manetka Shimano to jeden z najważniejszych elementów nowej grupy od Japończyków - M7100. Dzięki niej zmiana biegów jest szybka i pewna

www.centrumrowerowe.pl

(The price is around 20 GBP and free shipment)

Or, I think the same from Germany:

SLX SL-M7100 Rapidfire Plus Shifter 12 Speed or Double (Clamp) | ROSE Bikes

The SLX SL-M7100 Rapidfire Plus shifters change the gears of your SHIM

www.rosebikes.pl

(The price is around 25 GBP plus shipment).

 

[Stefan Mikes]

@sanyata, @Bavi:

My riding buddies all are telling me I should not replace the freehub body but just buy the SRAM NX Eagle PG-1230 12s cassette (11-50T). That cassette fits the HG freehub body, and the only thing you cannot have is the 10T cog, which I do not need anyway

I wonder whether I could use all other drivetrain components from Shimano? (Except for the chainring, which I could choose freely from a wide MTB offer). My brother tells my I should totally go SRAM to be kosher in this case

 

[Allan47.7339]

@sanyata, @Bavi:

My riding buddies all are telling me I should not replace the freehub body but just buy the SRAM NX Eagle PG-1230 12s cassette (11-50T). That cassette fits the HG freehub body, and the only thing you cannot have is the 10T cog, which I do not need anyway

I wonder whether I could use all other drivetrain components from Shimano? (Except for the chainring, which I could choose freely from a wide MTB offer). My brother tells my I should totally go SRAM to be kosher in this case

Not a SRAM person but it's my understanding the 12sp from either SRAM or Shimano is picky about mix and match and your brothers advice is probably correct. I sold the Vado SL 5.0 and everything I have now is 11sp. I went with 11-46 on my Creo and 42 front to get the lower gearing for hills. It's not official allowed Shimano gearing but I've never had a shifting problem. I haven't checked recently but 11spd supplies are less expensive than 12.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Not a SRAM person but it's my understanding the 12sp from either SRAM or Shimano is picky about mix and match and your brothers advice is probably correct. I sold the Vado SL 5.0 and everything I have now is 11sp. I went with 11-46 on my Creo and 42 front to get the lower gearing for hills. It's not official allowed Shimano gearing but I've never had a shifting problem. I haven't checked recently but 11spd supplies are less expensive than 12.

Thank you for your advice Allan! It is very reasonable. I have the 11s drivetrain (11-46T) in my Vado 6.0 and couldn't be more happy, especially in high mountains and with a smaller chainring. However, Vado 6.0 has a powerful motor but Vado SL has not and my needs are very specific right now. I need tons of low end, just a reasonable top end, and small jumps between the cassette gears.

I am now inclined to go for this configuration:

The above is for Specialized Diverge Expert E5 EVO that I rode for demo, and was happy with that. I can only think of using a 36T chainring to get me at 20 gear-inch I really need in the granny gear.

I do hate the SRAM shifter but wat do?

 

[PDoz]

@sanyata, @Bavi:

My riding buddies all are telling me I should not replace the freehub body but just buy the SRAM NX Eagle PG-1230 12s cassette (11-50T). That cassette fits the HG freehub body, and the only thing you cannot have is the 10T cog, which I do not need anyway

I wonder whether I could use all other drivetrain components from Shimano? (Except for the chainring, which I could choose freely from a wide MTB offer). My brother tells my I should totally go SRAM to be kosher in this case

I thought you were looking into gaerbaruk?

Yes, you can get them to fit the HG hub, and I think they even do a 10 tooth hg compatible ( I'm too lazy to go out and count what's on my lsl)

It's at least 400 gms lighter than the sram nx, but more importantly, it's really hard to get perfect shifting if you're trying to use shimano shifters and an sram cassette - they have slightly different spacing.

Do you have a really good reason to want shimano shifters? For what it's worth, I despise sram and their prices for cassettes . I have hg hub, gaerbuk to suit hg but sram compatable cassette. Sram derailiuers and shifters. Crisp, clean reliable, light - and reasonably priced ( I wait till they're on sale)

I also have a sram hub adapter for if I can't source gaerbaruk in future - but this thing is lasting so well I'm unlikely to ever buy sram again.

The only thing that might annoy you is they occasionally make a " ping" rather than " clunk" if you shift under load , plus there isn't a lot of meat where they interface with the freehub ( fine on an sl, but a brose might chew out freehubs ? )

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I thought you were looking into gaerbaruk?

Excellent hardware, lightweight, expensive and non-serviceable (like the top end SRAM cassettes). I was adviced to choose a less expensive option.

it's really hard to get perfect shifting if you're trying to use shimano shifters and an sram cassette - they have slightly different spacing.

That's why I think I'd go SRAM all the way.

Do you have a really good reason to want shimano shifters? For what it's worth, I despise sram and their prices for cassettes . I have hg hub, gaerbuk to suit hg but sram compatable cassette. Sram derailiuers and shifters. Crisp, clean reliable, light - and reasonably priced ( I wait till they're on sale)

The major reason I hate the SRAM shifter is you need to push the lever to upshift. It is different on your e-MTB because you probably use regular MTB grips. In my situation, I emulate the gravel bike "hoods" with Innerbarends. With the Shimano shifter, I can upshift without changing the hand position on the handlebar grip (pulling the lever with the index finger). In my configuration, the SRAM shifter will require a hand movement to upshift. Plus, the Shimano shifter can downshift by three gears with a single click but SRAM only allows single clicks.

If I go SRAM, I will have to accept that peculiarity.

( fine on an sl, but a brose might chew out freehubs ? )

Nay The issue with my Brose e-bike was the rear wheel got damaged (turned into macaroni) because of the excessive loading, too few spokes, and the high torque on the rear wheel but the freehub body itself has survived those three years of heavy use.

One of the reasons I want to go SRAM is the PG-1230 cassette is relatively inexpensive. If I wanted and could go the hard way, I would invest in the Shimano 7100 drivetrain, the one used on Giant Trance E+. I do not, however, want to experiment with freehubs. Besides, the CS-7100 cassette is fully serviceable (as many as 6 smallest sprockets can be replaced).

 

[Stefan Mikes]

As an alternative, I might follow @Allan47.7339's advice.

11s 11-51T CS-M5100 cassette and all the Shimano gear. The shifter is the major player here.

 

[PDoz]

The lower quality sram shifters like nx and I think eagle can shift up to 3 at a time, I can't remember which of our bikes has it. ( I prefer single shift so I'm not jumping too many cogs / wrecking cassettes and chains)

It's funny, we rarely chew out the small cogs on mountain bikes - it's usually mid range that dies first. So I prefer a solid cassette to the complexity / weight of something " serviceable " . I guess being able to fine tune clusters to suit quirky gravel bike needs might justify the hassle?

Shimano 12 sp can be really hard to set up - probably more of an issue for those of us who bend things regularly....but it's rare to hop on a shimano equipped mtb and not have at least somewhere in the range that is slipping / shifting badly. Great when new, but not very forgiving of abuse.

 

[Rás Cnoic]

So I've had an 11-46 & 38T 10 speed drivetrain on my SL4 for the last year and really appreciate the lower gearing. But I've just ordered a cheap Amazon 36T chainring to try even lower as I realise I'm rarely in the 38 x 11 gear so want to experiment with the 36T. Especially when I go onto steep bridleways. Lower would be nice. That gets me to 21 or so gear inches. Might not even need to shorten the chain as it's only 2 teeth shorter, I'll check when it arrives. I can change back to 38T if I find I'm spinning out in the top gear. It does make me wish for a 2x set up though.

 

[Dazmanturbo]

Stefan, you have a few issues with changes your are looking at. Firstly with 11 speed (and 12 thereafter), is did need a cassette hub on the rear to accommodate the wider cassette. There are a few companies that can get 11 speed cassettes on a 10 speed cassette hub, but it is a really limited choice. With cassette drivers, both SRAM XD / XRD and Shimano Micro spline will allow the smallest gear to drop to 10. If you do not need 10, then 11 speed Shimano driver will work fine.

12 speed being a wider space, the chain line can be an issue so make sure you have good access to all gear without excessive noise. I have always found Shiamano GRX to be excellent and with a Garbaruk derailleur cage, you can fit up to a 50 T on the rear.

 

[mschwett]

I thought you were looking into gaerbaruk?

Yes, you can get them to fit the HG hub, and I think they even do a 10 tooth hg compatible ( I'm too lazy to go out and count what's on my lsl)

It's at least 400 gms lighter than the sram nx, but more importantly, it's really hard to get perfect shifting if you're trying to use shimano shifters and an sram cassette - they have slightly different spacing.

Do you have a really good reason to want shimano shifters? For what it's worth, I despise sram and their prices for cassettes . I have hg hub, gaerbuk to suit hg but sram compatable cassette. Sram derailiuers and shifters. Crisp, clean reliable, light - and reasonably priced ( I wait till they're on sale)

I also have a sram hub adapter for if I can't source gaerbaruk in future - but this thing is lasting so well I'm unlikely to ever buy sram again.

The only thing that might annoy you is they occasionally make a " ping" rather than " clunk" if you shift under load , plus there isn't a lot of meat where they interface with the freehub ( fine on an sl, but a brose might chew out freehubs ? )

are you sure about the spacing for 11s? i have an sram cassette on my GRX creo and the shifting is perfect. careful visual inspection didn’t show any difference in spacing. or are you talking 10s to 11s?

i do use SRAM chains with SRAM cassettes, and in this case a wolf tooth chainring but all the wide narrow 1x rings work with either shimano or sram 11s chains.

i also wanted the 10t so i changed the driver too but that’s a really simple swap.

 

[Dazmanturbo]

Some SRAM and Shimano is fine to mix. On my Creo 1, I ran SRAM 10-42 cassette with GRX Di2 levers and rear derailleur. I would be fin with with SRAM/ Shimano or KMC chain. It is mainly the brakes that cause issue due to mineral oil / DOT fluid incompatible

 

[Stefan Mikes]

The major reason I hate the SRAM shifter is you need to push the lever to upshift. It is different on your e-MTB because you probably use regular MTB grips. In my situation, I emulate the gravel bike "hoods" with Innerbarends. With the Shimano shifter, I can upshift without changing the hand position on the handlebar grip (pulling the lever with the index finger). In my configuration, the SRAM shifter will require a hand movement to upshift.

I wanted to show you why SRAM shifters are a no-go for me. I could not take the pictures while riding, so the hand position on Innerbarends is slightly inaccurate here. Plus, I have rotated the Shimano shifter even more (the pictures are exactly one year old) so now the SRAM shifter would be even more inappropriate for my needs.

A normal hand position on the bars. The hand rests on the handlebar grip, and the Innerbarend only fixes the hand position. (You do not hold on the IBE!)

Upshifting with a Shimano shifter. I just pull the lever.

Downshifting. It is possible to push the lever down even by three positions easily without changing the hand position.

(Almost) the current setup. Now, the Shimano shifter is oriented the way the silver bolt is fully on the vertical. An easy access to push the downshift lever and it is also easy to pull the upshift lever.

I was riding a bike with a SRAM shifter and it was managable if no Innerbarends present.

 

[Dazmanturbo]

I know you said no SRAM, but have you considered SRAM wireless blips. Could fit the buttons on top the innerbarends, fighter jet style.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I know you said no SRAM, but have you considered SRAM wireless blips. Could fit the buttons on top the innerbarends, fighter jet style.

I have calculated the cost of the Shimano 5100 drivetrain (11-51T). I will calculate the price of the equivalent SRAM gear, that's the first point. Regarding the wireless shifter, I know it is convenient but I simply hate the thought of other devices that need to be regularly re-charged

 

[Dazmanturbo]

I have calculated the cost of the Shimano 5100 drivetrain (11-51T). I will calculate the price of the equivalent SRAM gear, that's the first point. Regarding the wireless shifter, I know it is convenient but I simply hate the thought of other devices that need to be regularly re-charged

I know what you mean about the battery. The Shimano Di2 battery lasts for ever and never had a issue. The SRAM AXS battery has give me a couple of warning. The SRAM batteries are about 50 euro each, but you can buy a wire that will allow you plug the derailleur directly into your ebike and it is only 190 euros !!!!