In depth article by Bicycling Mag on the lawsuit against Rad regarding a girls death

[Bobber]

It is a pretty long story but actually a good read.

E-Bikes Are Booming—And Virtually Unregulated. Will This Lawsuit Make Them Safer?

Twelve-year-old Molly Steinsapir crashed onto the pavement from a Rad Power e-bike and never woke up. With a poorly regulated e-bike industry, who is responsible when a child dies?

www.bicycling.com

 

[fooferdoggie]

it always the case when you make sacrifices in quality. there are much worse bikes out there its just RAD is better known.

 

[Bobber]

Oops. I see there is another thread already discussing this. I didn't see it on my search.

Peter Flax article for Bicycling.com about the challenges presented by DTC ebikes

The parents are lawyers, so they are doing what they do best. And since it's personal to them, of course they threw everything they could think of into the effort. Their pain is real. They are naturally very angry, upset, and zealous. I don't blame them a bit. And most likely this case will...

electricbikereview.com

 

[PedalUma]

That the person who died was photogenic or whatever else is irrelevant. Parents are responsible for their children's actions. Like a pendulum this bike is with one glance inherently rear heavy and adding a second rider makes it even more so. Anyone who knows about the basics of physics as all adults do would not put this bike down a 14% grade, because the back end would tend to swing forward on such a bike. Who assembled the bike? Who was maintaining the bike? Who was supervising? Who trained the operator? Who decided that it would be a good idea to buy a bike with inexpensive components that is assembled at home? Everyone knows the even the most expert ridders sometimes crash.

 

[Tom@WashDC]

I built a 70lb Fat Bike, BBSHD, steel frame with the cheapest cable pull brakes that China could manufacture. The brakes work fine, but I do have to squeeze firmy, and they need to be adjusted continuously. The move to hydraulic brakes is a good is a good safety thing for everyone. That being said, when my brother and I were 13 and 14, my grandfather gave us two Sears gas powered mini-bikes with a rear drum brake. No helmet, no pads, no safety equipment, not a single lesson from my parents on safety or use of the bikes. We lived on a farm in the country and rode in fields, woods, grass, but never on the road. We tried every method to kill ourselves on these bikes from piling on as many people possible, jumping ramps at full speed, running through gasoline fueled fire rings, jousting, and trying to run each other over. We rode barefoot and shirtless many times. I still have a scar on my leg from a major muffler burn. Man did we have fun.

My parents were clueless.

There is no world in which I would allow my 11 and 12 girls to ride double on an electric bike, moped, etc., on the street. At that age they'd be riding an analog bike,

 

[harryS]

I wish I had childhood memories that were that good. What comes to mind is my uncle bringing home an army surplus DDT bomb. On a hot summer evening, he'd set it off inside the kitchen and everyone had to run outside for hours while it did its trick on the roaches. DDT banned in '72. All of us kids still alive,


.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

That the person who died was photogenic or whatever else is irrelevant. Parents are responsible for their children's actions. Like a pendulum this bike is with one glance inherently rear heavy and adding a second rider makes it even more so. Anyone who knows about the basics of physics as all adults do would not put this bike down a 14% grade, because the back end would tend to swing forward on such a bike. Who assembled the bike? Who was maintaining the bike? Who was supervising? Who trained the operator? Who decided that it would be a good idea to buy a bike with inexpensive components that is assembled at home? Everyone knows the even the most expert ridders sometimes crash.
View attachment 146410

Agree with every word but the part in bold. Adults are largely ignorant of the basic laws of physics — either that, or they don't take them seriously.

In fact, many in the US wear their ignorance of or outright disdain for science in general as some kind of badge of coolness or virtue or piety. Ditto for math — and indeed, any kind of expertise. Totally maladaptive in our complex, tricky, dangerous, tech-based 21st century world.

Would a wider knowledge of basic physics make daily life safer? I'm sure of it, and I have evidence. In 2002, went back to grad school at the Colorado School of Mines — despite the name, a pretty rigorous general engineering/science place. Not MIT or Cal Tech, but of that ilk.

The only 2 undergrad cut classes at Mines were Physics 101 and 102. To stay, you had to take them freshman year and get at least a C in both.

In 2004, had to drive to nearby CU Boulder to get some classes Mines didn't offer. It's a serious university despite the party-school rep. But like most schools, no physics requirement.

And boy, did it show! After driving on the CU Boulder campus for a week, I started parking off campus. Why? Out of self-defense.

Many of the CU Boulder students had no concept of momentum, adhesion, or reaction time. They'd burst out of the bushes and walkways and onto the road at speed — some just running, but most on bikes, skates, skateboards, scooters, etc. Two close calls in 1 week.

None of that happened on the Mines campus, smaller but just as busy.

 

[Tars Tarkas]

You reminded me of this. 5-Minute University

TT

 

[PDoz]

Imagine a world where children are brought up by lawyers - people who make a living by avoiding accountability.

The only thing worse would be the parent who thinks it's ok for their child to play with two lawyers kid.....

 

[Ken M]

II built a 70lb Fat Bike, BBSHD, steel frame with the cheapest cable pull brakes that China could manufacture. The brakes work fine, but I do have to squeeze firmy, and they need to be adjusted continuously. The move to hydraulic brakes is a good is a good safety thing for everyone. That being said, when my brother and I were 13 and 14, my grandfather gave us two Sears gas powered mini-bikes with a rear drum brake. No helmet, no pads, no safety equipment, not a single lesson from my parents on safety or use of the bikes. We lived on a farm in the country and rode in fields, woods, grass, but never on the road. We tried every method to kill ourselves on these bikes from piling on as many people possible, jumping ramps at full speed, running through gasoline fueled fire rings, jousting, and trying to run each other over. We rode barefoot and shirtless many times. I still have a scar on my leg from a major muffler burn. Man did we have fun.

My parents were clueless.

There is no world in which I would allow my 11 and 12 girls to ride double on an electric bike, moped, etc., on the street. At that age they'd be riding an analog bike,

Given how steep the hill they were riding down was being on an analog bike would not make a difference - a bike going down that hill would likely hit 40mph without even pedaling. My guess on what happened is that the kid driving got scared of the speed they were going and pulled the front brake hard and this locked up the front wheel which twisted it to the side and they flipped.

 

[Ken M]

Imagine a world where children are brought up by lawyers - people who make a living by avoiding accountability.

The only thing worse would be the parent who thinks it's ok for their child to play with two lawyers kid.....

I have to agree that lawyers are groomed to think differently. I remember being at a party years ago and I asked a lawyer an opinion on something. They said they could not give their opinion because it could impact their future employment potential as they could only have an opinion that agreed with the firm they worked for. I think their mindset is how we started down conspiracy lane that we are surrounded with today.

 

[Muso]

Given that this terrible accident happened while going down a very steep grade, and with 2 kids on the bike, I have to wonder if the "E" in front of "Bike" really had anything at all to do with this kid's tragic death. Personally, I can get up pretty much any grade short of vertical with my e-bike and its Rohloff hub, but the question I ask myself before I take it on is, "Am I willing to ride back down this?" And I have some top-spec brakes on my bike. 12-year-olds may, just may, lack the 50 years' experience that I have riding all kinds of bicycles - up and down steep hills. This is a tough one.

Nevertheless, I think one must re-think one's definition of "overpriced." Is a $5,000 e-bike "overpriced" just because some schmuck sells one for $1,500?

 

[mschwett]

Given that this terrible accident happened while going down a very steep grade, and with 2 kids on the bike, I have to wonder if the "E" in front of "Bike" really had anything at all to do with this kid's tragic death. Personally, I can get up pretty much any grade short of vertical with my e-bike and its Rohloff hub, but the question I ask myself before I take it on is, "Am I willing to ride back down this?" ….

i think you sort of answered your own question there! you’re an adult, you would ask that question. would a child? i have two very smart (at least their mom thinks so!) little girls and as a parent i know they they don’t think like that always. little boys are even worse. assuming they didn’t start out at the top of that hill, it’s very, very, very, very likely they would never have ridden UP a steep hill on one acoustic bike. even if they had the mojo, that’s virtually impossible anyway unless one of them was an insanely strong kid.

because of this - and other reasons - most vehicles which are not safe to be used by children have keys. cars, motorcycles, mopeds, snowmobiles. you can blame the parents or the manufacturer, or both, but it’s wierd that vehicles with motors powerful enough to carry a few hundred pounds up a hill don’t have some sort of lock. we have a couple e-bikes and a boosted rev scooter (1,500w, 24mph) and that s*it is locked up in the garage at all times.

 

[Kayakguy]

i think you sort of answered your own question there! you’re an adult, you would ask that question. would a child? i have two very smart (at least their mom thinks so!) little girls and as a parent i know they they don’t think like that always. little boys are even worse. assuming they didn’t start out at the top of that hill, it’s very, very, very, very likely they would never have ridden UP a steep hill on one acoustic bike. even if they had the mojo, that’s virtually impossible anyway unless one of them was an insanely strong kid.

because of this - and other reasons - most vehicles which are not safe to be used by children have keys. cars, motorcycles, mopeds, snowmobiles. you can blame the parents or the manufacturer, or both, but it’s wierd that vehicles with motors powerful enough to carry a few hundred pounds up a hill don’t have some sort of lock. we have a couple e-bikes and a boosted rev scooter (1,500w, 24mph) and that s*it is locked up in the garage at all times.

I have a 6 year old grandson who decided to test the fire extinguisher at school. We are concerned about his lack of impulse control. Which is generally a problem with the typical immature person.

 

[PCeBiker]

I wish I had childhood memories that were that good. What comes to mind is my uncle bringing home an army surplus DDT bomb. On a hot summer evening, he'd set it off inside the kitchen and everyone had to run outside for hours while it did its trick on the roaches. DDT banned in '72. All of us kids still alive,


.

I remember DDT powder at home ~1973. It came in a cardboard tapered cone that came to a point on top with a hole to shake the powder out. We had a nail in the hole to work as a "lid".
The directions said to sprinkle it in your hair to kill lice.

I remember playing with a ball of mercury from a broken thermometer.
I'd hold lead pellets in my mouth and lead solder in my mouth while soldering to keep both hands free.

I've electrocuted myself dozens of times and actually volunteered to shock myself with a 400 volt capacitor in electronics class in 1981.

I've set my gas tank on fire and set myself on fire several times.

I guess that I shouldn't really survived all that nonsense but I'm still alive and doing dumb s*it.

I decided to blow up a lithium cell a few years ago.
It was an old cell, that I charged up thinking a fully charged battery would blow up better.

I hit it with an axe and nothing happened, so I hit again and chopped it in half.
No explosion, fire, smoke, sparks,.. nothing. I dunno? I was pretty disappointed.

I have a 6 year old grandson who decided to test the fire extinguisher at school. We are concerned about his lack of impulse control. Which is generally a problem with the typical immature person.

I was a problem child.
Now I'm a full grown adult causing problems.

 

[PCeBiker]

Agree with every word but the part in bold. Adults are largely ignorant of the basic laws of physics — either that, or they don't take them seriously.

I disagree with that.
An education doesn't prevent anyone from doing something stupid.

If I want to teach anyone how to ride a bike, I'm not going to start with an advanced Physics class.

I'll bet that 90% of all professional bikers, or any sport, know anything about Physics?

What I don't like about math and physics is that they only define what is observed then call it Law.

In the 60's the scientists didn't know what the Northern Lights were and wrote them off as mass hallucinations, even if they were witnessing the Lights themselves.

Scientists said Do Not go faster than the speed of sound.
You'll blow up or something.

They said life Can Not exist without sunlight and oxygen, but then we found life at the bottom of the ocean living off the energy of thermal vents.

If we all accept math and science as LAW, we'd never never make the mistakes that we make and never learn a thing.
Like the discovery of penicillin where the proper scientific method was applied to study the mistake.

Bakelite was mistake too.
They were trying to make foam, and it didn't work.
A resourceful engineer decided to study the material and found that bakelite was a very good insulator and could withstand Very high heat.

My house was built in the 40's and still has some bakelite light switch covers.

 

[Renee]

Many years ago we visited my cousin in Maine. She had all sorts of ATV's and the kids got to ride them. Then they started racing and I thought it was fun and they were all fine. Until my daughter with a cousin on the back decided she was going to win and not back down till the last minute. A broken arm was the result and my sister and I drove her to the ER to get things fixed. I coached my niece to tell the nurse on the way to say she fell off a horse, (they also had horses) and she said that a bit hesitantly when they asked her. But my reasoning was this. As adults we were ultimately responsible for what we let our kids do. And I didn't want my cousins homeowners attached when insurance comes to call because they always try to recover costs if they can. I didn't think that would be fair since we already had health and it was entirely our fault for letting minors use dangerous machinery. I also didn't want the hospital calling the police because I wasn't sure if what we had let them do was legal. Turns out it was legal because it was on private property (and it was Maine) but I was concerned for my cousins well being as well. It was not great parental supervision and I am eternally grateful injuries were not more serious. They all had helmets though so I wasn't that stupid. When we started snowmobiling at a friends house years later bigger rules got followed and we had no injuries for all the years we visited.

 

[Renee]

I have a 6 year old grandson who decided to test the fire extinguisher at school. We are concerned about his lack of impulse control. Which is generally a problem with the typical immature person.

As a teacher this is not a big deal. Boys do all sorts of strange things. I used to say "what were you thinking?" And I would get an "I don't know." and they honestly really don't know. It's a "seemed like a good idea at the time" sort of thing. Eventually they do start to think ahead but it takes a while.

 

[PedalUma]

I disagree with that.
An education doesn't prevent anyone from doing something stupid.

If I want to teach anyone how to ride a bike, I'm not going to start with an advanced Physics class.

I'll bet that 90% of all professional bikers, or any sport, know anything about Physics?

What I don't like about math and physics is that they only define what is observed then call it Law.

In the 60's the scientists didn't know what the Northern Lights were and wrote them off as mass hallucinations, even if they were witnessing the Lights themselves.

Scientists said Do Not go faster than the speed of sound.
You'll blow up or something.

They said life Can Not exist without sunlight and oxygen, but then we found life at the bottom of the ocean living off the energy of thermal vents.

If we all accept math and science as LAW, we'd never never make the mistakes that we make and never learn a thing.
Like the discovery of penicillin where the proper scientific method was applied to study the mistake.

Bakelite was mistake too.
They were trying to make foam, and it didn't work.
A resourceful engineer decided to study the material and found that bakelite was a very good insulator and could withstand Very high heat.

My house was built in the 40's and still has some bakelite light switch covers.

Can a dog catch a Frisbee? It does not know about higher math. What about a seagull's flight?