Third party battery options for an 8Fun front hub motor (Hilltopper)?

[yank283]

Hello - I converted an old Trek hybrid with a Hilltopper (yeah, I know...I realize now there are better deals out there with better customer service) kit in 2020. If anyone is familiar, I have the "Sprinter" kit which has the stealth water bottle battery (5.4ah) and a 36volt, 350watt motor. I do like the kit because of it's stealth factor/light weight and I'm good with the power output as I didn't want a motorcycle type ebike (I like pedaling/biking ) but I would like now a more powerful battery. I also don't want to spend $300 on another 5.4 ah battery. Apparently you can't use the Hilltopper "universal battery" replacement and also use the 5.4 water bottle kit simultaneously or it be an easy swap. So here I am stuck with this weaker battery with the only option given by the company to add another one. Anybody else been in this predicament?
I know there are options to buy a different controller and change batteries but I am pretty new to the tech and I am figuring out that there aren't many resources available to find out how to do this (why I am here)? There doesn't seem to be a controller for this battery (is it in the battery?) as it's basically just the battery, the bottle cage (with 2 prong electrical discharge and lock), and the motor (with wire connectors to the motor and the throttle - only). I have seen what look like identical kettle batteries and holders on Ali Express/other Chinese sites. Would these work as plug and play or would the controller (or whatever) need to be reprogrammed? Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

 

[tomjasz]

Any 36v water bottle mount larger Ah battery will work. no need to change controllers just match the connectors. Timpo and the rest of us can better help when you post pictures of connectors.
or ID them.

 

[Edrummer]

okay so is this the kit you have?
It doesn't show what kind of controller you currently have.

Sprinter Electric Bike Kit - Hilltopper Electric Bike Company

Electric bike kit for turning any bike into an electric bike. Go further, last longer, climb higher with a Hilltopper Electric Bike kit. Shop now!

hilltopperbikes.com

My friend has the same kit and is in the same situation. It appears the controller is built in the bottom of the battery bottle.

 

[tomjasz]

I can see the motor plug and it’s typical and common. @AHicks and others here are extremely happy with KT controllers and displays. That would be a good upgrade option. Someone suggested 48V but we don’t know that your motor can handle that. I’d not try a voltage upgrade. A 36V controller and battery upgrade may increase speed but not over 20MPH IME.

@harryS is a wizard at scratch builds, hopefully he’ll take interest in your post. Harry?

 

[EMGX]

If it is really worth the effort for a higher capacity/more range and if you still want to use the OEM battery and controller it seems there would be limited options. If the controller is in the battery housing I suppose the battery input wires to the controller could be tapped with one of these dual battery switches. If I understand correctly they drain the higher voltage battery (both have to be the same rated voltage) until voltages are equal then drains them both simultaneously.

 

[tomjasz]

If it is really worth the effort for a higher capacity/more range and if you still want to use the OEM battery and controller it seems there would be limited options. If the controller is in the battery housing I suppose the battery input wires to the controller could be tapped with one of these dual battery switches. If I understand correctly they drain the higher voltage battery (both have to be the same rated voltage) until voltages are equal then drains them both simultaneously.
View attachment 139033

I have one but am a bit concerned about its use. Have you seen any reliable reviews?

 

[EMGX]

You and I have different levels of confidence in Amazon reviews. Two same appearing products have total of 15 reviews, none negative. I'd try it if I had the need but I don't. No idea how it works, maybe just a couple MOSFETs and diodes in the housing?

 

[AHicks]

Also, what do you want to do? You mentioned more powerful battery, so you want a 48V?

Exactly! What is the objective here?

 

[yank283]

Also, what do you want to do? You mentioned more powerful battery, so you want a 48V?

Hi Timpo - When I say "more powerful" I mean't more mileage, sorry probably not the best term. I'm ok with the 36v, can use the exercise lol, just want to be able to ride for longer distances.

 

[yank283]

okay so is this the kit you have?
It doesn't show what kind of controller you currently have.

Sprinter Electric Bike Kit - Hilltopper Electric Bike Company

Electric bike kit for turning any bike into an electric bike. Go further, last longer, climb higher with a Hilltopper Electric Bike kit. Shop now!

hilltopperbikes.com

yes I have this kit. The Sprinter version.

 

[yank283]

I can see the motor plug and it’s typical and common. @AHicks and others here are extremely happy with KT controllers and displays. That would be a good upgrade option. Someone suggested 48V but we don’t know that your motor can handle that. I’d not try a voltage upgrade. A 36V controller and battery upgrade may increase speed but not over 20MPH IME.

@harryS is a wizard at scratch builds, hopefully he’ll take interest in your post. Harry?

Awesome, thank you!

 

[yank283]

Exactly! What is the objective here?

misspoke, only want longer range. I'm ok with 36v.

 

[m@Robertson]

I have one but am a bit concerned about its use. Have you seen any reliable reviews?

I just looked at an Amazon one a couple of days ago and its description sounded like BS to me. Go to Area 13 Ebikes and they are taking pre-orders right now on one of these with an expected December delivery. The owner made a detailed video about how it works, and he and his company are a vendor I trust. I also like that it uses XT90s which are a much better connector for this sort of thing than an XT60.

With all of that said, parallel'ing batteries together do not require a device like that. Its a bit of a crutch. I personally believe you should only parallel packs if you have a firm grasp on what you are doing and what the increased risk level is. Its not something that should be undertaken by the novice.

 

[tomjasz]

I just looked at an Amazon one a couple of days ago and its description sounded like BS to me. Go to Area 13 Ebikes and they are taking pre-orders right now on one of these with an expected December delivery. The owner made a detailed video about how it works, and he and his company are a vendor I trust. I also like that it uses XT90s which are a much better connector for this sort of thing than an XT60.

With all of that said, parallel'ing batteries together do not require a device like that. Its a bit of a crutch. I personally believe you should only parallel packs if you have a firm grasp on what you are doing and what the increased risk level is. Its not something that should be undertaken by the novice.

And exactly why I prefer my DPDT switch solution.

 

[harryS]

Since the Sprinter controller is in the battery, you have to use it that way. And so there is no external battery connector to access for paralleling.
.
I don't see anything technically wrong with the y-cable boxes that have diodes and heat sinks inside, They are overly expensive for what they do, so they better be reliable. If the diodes short out, you lose the protection..However, the OP can't use them anyway unless he/she has the skills to tap an XT connector to the inside of the Sprinter battery
.
For a safe installation, it may be less expensive to buy a second Sprinter pack vs spending a hundred bucks on an active y-connector and a second battery.

 

[m@Robertson]

And exactly why I prefer my DPDT switch solution.

DPDT? Sounds like something that, if fully spelled out, would have to be bleeped if said on TV.

 

[tomjasz]

DPDT? Sounds like something that, if fully spelled out, would have to be bleeped if said on TV.

 

[Gionnirocket]

Next time use a DC rated switch you flockin' hack!

 

[tomjasz]

DC rated switch

It is dip wad!

 

[EMGX]

These dual battery connectors are probably just connection boxes with diodes then. I'm curious to know exactly what diodes and ratings are being used for any of them but the Area 13 looks like a safer choice. With ordinary diodes there are losses due to heat and voltage drop across the diode. For the OP buying another hilltopper battery seems the easiest and most sane path but per their product description the hilltopper controller is in the base of the battery holder rather than the battery housing itself.

Sprinter Electric Bike Kit - Hilltopper Electric Bike Company

Electric bike kit for turning any bike into an electric bike. Go further, last longer, climb higher with a Hilltopper Electric Bike kit. Shop now!

hilltopperbikes.com

An inexpensive higher ah generic battery using connectors compatible with the posts on the battery base should work also. Remove the stock battery and plug in the replacement battery, just don't reverse polarity, strap the battery onto the holder. For sure not an elegant solution and I wouldn't do it myself vs OEM.