48v battery pack full charge voltage?

Gionnirocket

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Y. O.
When I fully charge my battery, the budget 2amp/54.6v rated charger cuts off at 54.0v and then will cycle on and off briefly for a while... is this typical?
I realize that 0.6v on a 13S battery pack comes to 100ths of a volt per cell so its not that I think it is a problem. Especially since my plan is to charge to 80% most of the time anyway.
 
You're over-thinking it.
Voltage as a measure of charge state is simply an estimate, yours is normal.
Just charge up and go. When you're done, recharge to 50% or thereabouts for storage. Ride happy. 👍
 
Thanks...
I wasn't worried, it was more of a curiosity.
This being my first battery pack and charger I had no comparison
 
When I fully charge my battery, the budget 2amp/54.6v rated charger cuts off at 54.0v and then will cycle on and off briefly for a while... is this typical?
I realize that 0.6v on a 13S battery pack comes to 100ths of a volt per cell so its not that I think it is a problem. Especially since my plan is to charge to 80% most of the time anyway.
You mention charging to 80%, do you have a charger that will do that?
 
On this same subject... It has made me think of one additional concern of not reaching 54.6v while charging.
What if the charger is shutting down prior to the BMS reaching the voltage at which it starts to Ballance.
Anyone know at what Voltage a typical BMS would start implementing Balancing?
I realize with the mass array of BMS's available that this somewhat of a loaded question.
 
My thought is, let the electronics take care of it!

To my understanding, the BMS is very likely doing it's balancing act through the last 10% or so of the charge cycle (assuming you're going to let the charger run full cycle). At that point (10%) it's likely it's seeing cells that are fully charged and diverting charge to the cells with less voltage.
 
My thought is, let the electronics take care of it!

To my understanding, the BMS is very likely doing it's balancing act through the last 10% or so of the charge cycle (assuming you're going to let the charger run full cycle). At that point (10%) it's likely it's seeing cells that are fully charged and diverting charge to the cells with less voltage.

I'm not looking to intervene, just understand. My mind is always asking questions.
My only concern about trusting the electronics is that I don't have the highest end hardware here and I'm not so confident that it is properly matched and probably just what was available/cheapest.

@Timpo
My display is pretty accurate as far as voltage when compared with a voltage meter. Within 0.1v when not bouncing but sometimes 0.2v
The mileage is a little bit off as it doesn't allow with my controller for exact tire settings... I have to use a nominal 26".
My CatEye allowed for a more granular input by actual tire size say 26 x 2.2 or even entering a manually measured circumference .
Anywho...we ain't sending it to Mars just yet so I guess it is good enough 🙃
 
The last Balance BMS that I purchased says the balance starts at 4.18V, and the balance current is 30 ma.

I can also watch my wattmeter. My batteries with balabce ciruits will draw about 40ma and the BMS card stays warm. Batteries with dumb BMS will stop drawing current and everything cools down.
 
Okay well my voltmeter is off by 2.2V :confused:

I posted here on EBR what's wrong with it and others replied that they had the same problem too.

I also tested my speedometer using GPS, again, they were off as well.

I wouldn't trust my phone GPS to accurately measure mph as there is some delay and I do believe it averages out the reading considering that.
It might depend on which controller display combo you have. The BBS02B and 860c seem well paired.
If it's any consolation... My clock does gain about a minute every week
 
The last Balance BMS that I purchased says the balance starts at 4.18V, and the balance current is 30 ma.

I can also watch my wattmeter. My batteries with balabce ciruits will draw about 40ma and the BMS card stays warm. Batteries with dumb BMS will stop drawing current and everything cools down.

That's what I was thinking... Much closer to the end of the charge cycle and the high end cut_off voltage. That would put it near the 54.3v volt mark if things were close to being balanced to begin with.
I like the implementation of the wattmeter 👍
How do you have it wired in? Can I assume that is 40ma for the entire pack. Pop a pic or link if possible.
 
My thought is, let the electronics take care of it!

To my understanding, the BMS is very likely doing it's balancing act through the last 10% or so of the charge cycle (assuming you're going to let the charger run full cycle). At that point (10%) it's likely it's seeing cells that are fully charged and diverting charge to the cells with less voltage.

According to what I've read elsewhere and inline with what harryS has posted.. it's more like the last 1%.
And I believe the Balancing is done by bleeding (wasting) current on the higher voltage cells until the lower voltage cells catch up.
So you can see if a charger is shutting off below or to near what the BMS needs to Balance.. a problem can begin to grow.
Sounds like a job for SATIATOR
 
Maybe, if you have some extra money burning a hole in your pocket. If not, just charge it up and ride it.... like the other 99% of us are doing!
 
Maybe, if you have some extra money burning a hole in your pocket. If not, just charge it up and ride it.... like the other 99% of us are doing!

No not going for the satiator just yet. There's more than one way to skin a cat.
Again this is wanting to understand more than anything.
But I never do what the 99% do. No sheep blood in my veins.
 
Not a follower here either, but the fact that 99% of the people are doing something one way, that seems to be working very well, weighs heavily in my decision to follow or go off on my own....
 
I don't have that much faith in what Aliexpress puts together as a kit. Not that they are being deceitful, but more of a shared ignorance on both sides. Getting name brand cells isn't the end_all. How they are managed is just, if not more important. Putting a $10 charger on a $450 battery may not show signs of trouble until you get further down the road.
For the money saved I think it better to do a little research and keep my mind busy with new information at the very least.
 
AliExpress doesn't 'sell' products, they are more like a marketplace of sellers from China, much like Amazon. And you're right - it's a crap shoot on what you get coming out of china - some of it is really good, some of it not so much.

My extensive experience with batteries is with12V lead acid for cars boats and RV's, and Lithium Polymer packs - these from playing with RC crawlers, or 'tiny trucks'. "LiPo", as they are referred to, are considerably more volatile than lithium-ion, like we have in our ebikes. For lipo cells, each cell has a sensor wire that the charger uses to balance all of the cells in the pack. These packs are generally 2 to 6 or so cells, 2 or 3 being most popular for crawlers - low power - and more for high speed surface and aircraft models, like racing cars and boats, and electric powered aircraft. AFAIK the only way to get proper cell balancing is with this sensor wire that actually measures the voltage of each individual cell. Obviously our bike batteries don't do this, and there are a lot more cells, like 50 or so. So as I understand it, our very basic chargers and battery management systems (BMS) only measure for whole-pack voltage, min and max for shut off. There isn't really any true balancing going on there. And why simply charging up to 100%, or 'peaking' out the pack, is the best way to keep all cells balanced. If too many are failing, or are of lower capacity - measured by voltage - then the whole pack suffers, those bad cells will drag the rest of them down. Also why it's valuable to charge the pack fully - the best chance of peaking up all the individual cells.

Same way a lead-acid fails - if one set of plates, or 'cell' fails, it drags the others down to it's level, the whole battery fails. And why you don't mix old and new deepcycle batteries in an array, like in RV's and boats and such. I've seen charge systems destroy a good battery paired with a bad one - starting batteries for a marine engine. It literally cooks the juice out of the good battery, trying to get the bad one to take up charge.

Anyway, that's how I understand it, and these are kind of low-tech packs for our ebikes, much like you find in any cordless appliance, but just a lot more of them, and why you just charge and go like your dust-buster. The charging system is just a very basic process of adding charge amps to the pack. All the BMS does is shut it down at low voltage, and stop charging at high voltage - there isn't really anything else going on there.
 
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