48t 104bcd chainring for Vado

[mfgrep]

......looking in to this

I chatted online with Specialized Rider Care which was an arduous process. The CS rep was vague and seemingly lacked technical knowledge....but attempted at every opportunity to appease me...saying 'that is the OEM ring'...or 'that is indeed a wave ring'. After 51 minutes online back/forth discussing the uploaded photos of my ring and he attempting to explain that it is an OEM wave tech ring....and me not buying it at all....he asked that he speak with a team lead and get back with me via email. In his email he wrote "do you feel confident installing a new chainring? If so I can send you a new one. We are still looking into whether that is the wrong chainring that is stocked on your bike".

I responded that I can easily install a new ring and have not yet heard back from him.

In the meantime I emailed and spoke with Praxis. Praxis confirmed via my photos that this is most definitely not a Praxis chain ring. He acknowledged that Praxis does make parts to spec for manufacturers and that this particular ring is not Praxis. He also stated that all of his rings would be printed with "Praxis".

I understand that Specialized has an 'out' with their disclaimer "Specifications are subject to change without notice".....but I just cannot help but have a bad taste left in my mouth. Perhaps I am not being reasonable.

Edit: Just received an update email "I heard back from higher ups and they said we have switched to a more robust steel chainring to minimize wear and tear. The new chainring does not use Wave Tech Technology, but we have not had many problems with chains dropping with those new chainrings. Yes, the chainring I can send you will be a praxis branded chainring like you sent the link to."

 

[Stefan Mikes]

A happy end!
Besides, it takes years to wear a 48T ring...

 

[mfgrep]

A happy end!
Besides, it takes years to wear a 48T ring...

I'm not a huge fan of the Praxis wave tech rings (as you already know), however, I am not buying Spesh's "more robust" and "to minimize wear/tear" reasoning. It smacks more of 'we decided to use cheap stamped steel Chinese chain rings to save money'.

Sort of like when you ask Spesh or a Spesh dealer whether they are having any issues with chain drops on Vado or Como and they say "dear no....you are the first to mention this" lol.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

they say "dear no....you are the first to mention this"

Don't feel offended but the only time I had a chain drop was when my derailleur got badly misadjusted, and it got misadjusted only because the derailleur hanger was badly bent (which I learned of only a few days ago)

I have a 3x chainring on my third e-bike, neither of the rings is Narrow-Wide, and I have never experienced a chain drop on that e-bike.

I'm glad to hear Specialized is sending you the Praxis chainring though!

 

[mfgrep]

Don't feel offended but the only time I had a chain drop was when my derailleur got badly misadjusted, and it got misadjusted only because the derailleur hanger was badly bent (which I learned of only a few days ago)

I have a 3x chainring on my third e-bike, neither of the rings is Narrow-Wide, and I have never experienced a chain drop on that e-bike.

I'm glad to hear Specialized is sending you the Praxis chainring though!

Just a cursory read around the web reveals that many folks, particularly folks with Vado SL, have experienced atypical chain drops.

Sidenote: I have yet to have a chain drop since installing the Garbaruk on my SL. More miles will tell the whole story....but so far so good.
I have already had a chain drop on my new Vado 4.0 during the first 100 miles.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I have already had a chain drop on my new Vado 4.0 during the first 100 miles.

The derailleur has to be out of the adjustment. Just saying.

Now I could recollect my own story with the Lovelec, my hub-drive e-bike. I was in the first month of riding that e-bike, and started thinking of giving it to an LBS for the first inspection and adjustment. Before that happened, the chain snapped. Well, I "ghost pedalled", which activated the hub-drive as if the crank was a throttle, and allowed me to ride to a train station. Upon the return, I just fixed the chain and continued riding. Soon, friends of mine visited me. The wife had been happily pedalling my Lovelec for 20 minutes and said e-bikes were a wonderful thing! Then, her husband tried riding my e-bike. The idiot was playing with the derailleur, got into the 1st cassette gear and the chain dropped.

The man not only destroyed the derailleur but also bent the derailleur hanger! As I needed to get the custom derailleur hanger from the D2C company, and that took a month, I bought a Vado meanwhile

The mechanic upon seeing my Lovelec and hearing my story said both events (chain snap and derailleur damage) were caused by a misaligned derailleur.

@mfgrep I am far from preaching but the universal rule is to do the "first 100 mile service" for any new bike or e-bike. It is mandatory in Europe (a Specialized rule) and if you do not get your Specialized e-bike serviced after a relatively short riding (it is called "100-300 km or 6 months, whichever comes earlier") then you have no warranty anymore. This is how it works here. For instance, I did my "first service" on Vado SL after a week of the ownership!

 

[mfgrep]

While waiting for service yesterday I observed their two Vado 4.0's sitting on the floor. A red one with the Praxis chain ring and the black one with my stamped metal chain ring of unknown origins. It does seem that Specialized is using some generic chain ring on these now.

And

 

[mfgrep]

I give Specialized credit where it is due:

While the tech specs for my Vado 4.0 clearly state "Praxis 48T chain ring" Specialized does have a disclosure which allows them to substitute similar parts when/if necessary. So technically they were not required to appease me....but they did.

As I already posted...I was pretty surprised to find a cheap stamped metal chain ring on my new Vado 4.0...and I reached out to Specialized for explanation.
I won't bore everyone with the details of that conversation (again) but today I did receive a Praxis 48T chain ring for the bike via FedEx.

I do not yet know whether one functions better than the other, however, the Praxis ring appears to be of infinitely superior build quality when compared to the chainring that shipped with the bike. I plan to replace the existing ring with this Praxis ring....but with rain expected for the next 5 days....it may be awhile before I can give it a good test.

The funny part of this: The Praxis wave ring was nothing but trouble for me on my Vado SL and I replaced it with a Garbaruk which has been problem free thus far.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Good to hear you have got the replacement!

 

[mfgrep]

Update: My Vado SL has not dropped chain one single time since I replaced the Praxis Wave-ring with the Garbaruk. Not once.

 

[mfgrep]

Good to hear you have got the replacement!

Well this is a problem. I was lubing my chain today and the chain came off the chain ring. I s'pose I was torquing the chain a bit sideways while back-pedaling while cleaning and applying lube. No biggie.
I removed the chain ring bolts to get the chain back on and before I even got to the point where I was tightening....the outer (threaded bolt) top sheered off entirely!!!!

Perhaps I should avoid aluminum! I s'pose it is possible that I had over-tightened when I previously installed back many months ago....but just the lightest touch seemed to break this thing.

Think it is un-safe to ride with 3 bolts until I find a replacement?

EDIT: I JUST REALIZED THAT THEY HAD SENT ME 5 BOLTS!!!! I HAVE A REPLACEMENT HERE AT THE HOUSE!!! YAY!!!

 

[Stefan Mikes]

EDIT: I JUST REALIZED THAT THEY HAD SENT ME 5 BOLTS!!!! I HAVE A REPLACEMENT HERE AT THE HOUSE!!! YAY!!!

Yes The MTB sets always come with 5 bolts Tighten to 5 Nm.

 

[Axis]

Perhaps this diagram could help?

View attachment 174192

As I can read it in another forum, the WAVE chainring is not directional. The chain placement graphics could be well hidden behind the chainguard in your Vado.

I can remember a debate with a German forum member here: I said the graphics was on the outside, and he claimed the graphics should be inside the Praxis chainring

After 7000 miles I just replaced the cassette and praxis chainring on my 2022 Vado 4.0 this afternoon.
The new chainring came with the diagram printed on it that looks like your attached picture. Meaning the outer/wide plates on the chain link go over the narrow inner tooth. I had been riding the old drivetrain the with opposite chain placement and once in awhile the chain would jump teeth when I switched into the biggest gear on the cassette making it fall into the correct position which I thought was wrong and was happening because of the higher milage and wear.

So I just experimented and yep even with the brand new chain, cassette and chainring... it pops itself back into the the orientation shown in the photo.

All those miles... I had it wrong and yes now and again I would drop a chain (happened 4 times in 7k miles). Thanks for your wealth of knowledge Stephan!

 

[mfgrep]

After 7000 miles I just replaced the cassette and praxis chainring on my 2022 Vado 4.0 this afternoon.
The new chainring came with the diagram printed on it that looks like your attached picture. Meaning the outer/wide plates on the chain link go over the narrow inner tooth. I had been riding the old drivetrain the with opposite chain placement and once in awhile the chain would jump teeth when I switched into the biggest gear on the cassette making it fall into the correct position which I thought was wrong and was happening because of the higher milage and wear.

So I just experimented and yep even with the brand new chain, cassette and chainring... it pops itself back into the the orientation shown in the photo.

All those miles... I had it wrong and yes now and again I would drop a chain (happened 4 times in 7k miles). Thanks for your wealth of knowledge Stephan!

I am only amazed that you haven't had more chain drops regardless of the orientation. Same bike here.... I was dropping chain frequently.... And I was sure to have the chain oriented properly on that Praxis ring.

I finally gave up and bought an aftermarket chain ring and have not had a single drop since.

 

[Axis]

I am only amazed that you haven't had more chain drops regardless of the orientation. Same bike here.... I was dropping chain frequently.... And I was sure to have the chain oriented properly on that Praxis ring.

I finally gave up and bought an aftermarket chain ring and have not had a single drop since.

I am going to clean up the old ring and take some pictures of it and pictures of the brand new branded Praxis chainring. The old one has no markings at all. Also weird photos in this thread and online show the chain orientation the opposite of my new Praxis. But my bike is shifting perfect. Amazing after 7k miles... I slap on a new chain, cassette (same as stock) and 48t Praxis chainring... and I do not have to adjust ANYTHING. It shifts perfectly as long as the narrow link is over the wide tooth... which is how the graphic printed in the new chainring shows it needs to be.

 

[GuruUno]

I would like to advise that I think Stephan (from Poland) should be the honorary top notch adviser for stuff with the Vado as his expertise is far exceeding the mothership (Specialized) and is extremely helpful in many situations. I love you dude.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Thank you Bob for your kind words!

Just recently, I could find yet another peculiarity about chainrings! My brother bought a new chainring for his Giant Trance E+ to replace the existing Praxis one. It is what he found:

• Praxis chainrings that are connected to the motor spider by a threaded male bolt into a threaded female chainring holes without the nut are only 3.5 mm wide!
• He bought a 4 mm wide chainring. It turned out the standard 8x8 mm MTB chainring bolt with a nut of around 5 mm long sleeve was too long!
• All chainrings I ever owned (except the 3.5 mm thin Praxis) were 5 mm wide and accepted the standard 8x8 mm MTB chainring bolt with a 5 mm sleeve.

Surprises, surprises. Turned out the clearances on the Giant frame (especially the MTB chain guide) were as tight as you not only needed a thin chainring but also special chainring bolts with a 4 mm sleeve; or special washers!

We are lucky our older Vado or Vado SL can use standard solutions! (I have no clue about SRAM chainrings).

 

[mfgrep]

I am going to clean up the old ring and take some pictures of it and pictures of the brand new branded Praxis chainring. The old one has no markings at all. Also weird photos in this thread and online show the chain orientation the opposite of my new Praxis. But my bike is shifting perfect. Amazing after 7k miles... I slap on a new chain, cassette (same as stock) and 48t Praxis chainring... and I do not have to adjust ANYTHING. It shifts perfectly as long as the narrow link is over the wide tooth... which is how the graphic printed in the new chainring shows it needs to be.

I know that Spesh shipped some Vado and Vado SL with Praxis (which has the chain orientation diagram on the back side) and others with a generic unbranded black chain ring which requires no specific chain orientation. I had problems with the Praxis ring on my SL (frequent chain drops) despite correct chain orientation. YMMV.

I believe the reason for them switching to the generic ring was cost alone. My SL came with Praxis which I've replaced with Garbaruk. My regular Vado came with a chinese generic ring and when asked Spesh shipped me a Praxis branded replacement (the specs said Praxis but they built the bike with the generic ring anyway). I didn't have problems on the full power Vado with either ring but I didn't have many miles on that bike either.