KT Controller/Display on a Pace 500?

[eRicken]

hi,

I'm planning on replacing the stock controller & display for my Pace 500 bike with an aftermarket set. If anyone has experience doing that, particularly with a KT branded controller & display I'd be very interested to hear before I get too far along and screw too much up.

Initially I was just going to buy the retrofit kit from Aventon but that is out of stock and I'm impatient. Then I decided I wanted to find an unlocked version of the original oem controller, but they (Tongsheng) doesn't appear to sell for aftermarket. The closest I could find was a distributor in Germany who did custom coding on the same model controller used for some other brand of bike. I figured even if everything went right, there'd be no way the cost would be reasonable.

Finally, I decided to go with KT brand controllers - they were pretty much identical in size to BAFang's controllers, and the reviews seemed to indicate the KT displays were much better (and that they weren't cross compatible). Unfortunately the controllers are about a half inch too wide and tall to fit in the frame where the old one is. It looks like they could be removed from their cases though - and I'm hoping the circuit board is much smaller. If so, I'll just pot it with epoxy and put it in. The bike frame should protect it and function as a heat sink.

Anyway, that is my plan. I ordered the KT-48V 22A dual controller with Julet connectors, a KT-LCD8H display and two extension cables (a double female for the PAS and an 9 pin extension cord for the motor) tonight. They should arrive in 2-4 weeks from China. Fingers crossed I can make the controller fit, and that all the wiring pinouts are the same.

 

[eRicken]

What's dual controller?

I'm not sure...haha, but I think it it will do either sine or square wave current. The other controller in the ad was square only. I kept seeing it in descriptions, so I thought it was a thing. Otherwise it could mean it can handle motors with or without a hall sensor.

 

[eRicken]

ok so is this the bike you have?
the step-over version?

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Yep

 

[eRicken]

Okay so I just did the search on AliExpress, is this what you ordered?

36V 48V Electric Bike 22A Brushless Controller 500W 750W 9 Mosfet DC Controllr Motor For KT LCD LED Display Waterproof Wire|Electric Bicycle Accessories| - AliExpress

Cheap Electric Bicycle Accessories, Buy Quality Sports & Entertainment Directly from China Suppliers:36V 48V Electric Bike 22A Brushless Controller 500W 750W 9 Mosfet DC Controllr Motor For KT LCD LED Display Waterproof Wire Enjoy ✓Free Shipping Worldwide! ✓Limited Time Sale ✓Easy Return.

www.aliexpress.com

I am not sure if that fits in the frame of your bike.. did you check the dimension?

I say this because Juiced and other similar ebikes have controller inside, with Reention Dorado battery (which gives you an idea of frame width), and I don't think they could fit in a KT controller.

It's similar, it has the waterproof plugs on it though. But yes, the dimensions of the controller is too big to fit in the frame. I'm hoping the controller itself will be small enough when removed from its aluminum case.

 

[eRicken]

Is it too late to cancel?

Why don't you just get a controller that will fit your frame?

Juiced charge quite a bit for their controller, however Eunorau is more reasonable.

Eunorau 25A controller

EUNORAU 48V1000W ENA Hub Motor Controller System For Bafang 1000W Fat

This is the controller set for Bafang 48V1000W hub motor kits, it is only working with Bafang 1000W kit, so please check carefully before you buy. Electric bicycle conversion kits 48V 1000W brushless non-gear hub motor kits system Packing list: 1. 48V25A sin-wave controller for Bafang 48V1000W...

eunorau-ebike.com

Eunorau 25A controller on AliExpress

90.0US $ |48v25a Sin-wave Controller For Ena 48v1000w Rear Hub Fat Motor Kit - Electric Bicycle Accessories - AliExpress

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The width of this controller is 63mm, however I can see that they have added the fin on 25A controller, so it might be a little wider.

However, 20A and 28A are both 63mm

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55.0US $ |48V28A Sin Wave Controller for ENA 48V1000W Rear Hub No gear Motor Kit|Electric Bicycle Accessories| - AliExpress

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I know it says the height is 40mm for 20A, but I don't think that's accurate, I believe the height is 35mm, however I'd double check with Eunorau if I were you.

However, the KT controller you got is 67mm wide (instead of 63mm) 130mm long (instead of 124.5mm) and 40mm tall (instead of 35mm), so I don't know if that would make a substantial difference.

I didn't see those before, I'll take a look. One thing is that 63mm will still be too wide by 10mm or so. Either way I'd need to remove them from the case they are in. I did come across versions of the KT controller that were modified to fit the HaiLong battery cases. I don't know their dimensions, but they appeared to be smaller. It gives me hope because I think they are the exact same controller guts, just pulled out of the standard case and attached to a plate.

 

[eRicken]

Nice! - thanks for finding that. I couldn't find sizing on the links you posted, but I've been known to stare right at something and not see it. I wish I had posted my questions before ordering - I have 4 separate orders to try to cancel now. Good thing it's the weekend and nothing will have shipped yet. I kept finding results for BAFang & KT controllers that had identical cases - per Amp size - so had given up on finding ones that would fit.

I'm going to post on the general board to see if anyone has experience with the controller circuit boards - I'm curious as to what size they are outside of the case. There was a video from Grin showing their controller being pulled from the same style case and it looked like a lot of air space in there. If the circuit board fits, it might be easier to repot into a small case than to try and cancel the orders and re-order the Eunorau one.

 

[eRicken]

Ok, the Eunorau controllers seem like the way to go. My point was to get away from the locked down controller/screen that Aventon provides, so Juiced wouldn't make sense.

The one thing I had going for the KT controller was it used the same Higo/Julet connectors Aventon used - I just needed a 1 foot extension to the motor cable and a double female connector for the PAS sensor. If all the pinouts are the same, I could just plug all the connectors together and everything should work.

I think the same is true for the Eunorau one if it has those connectors. Just need to check if the display connector is 8 or 9 pin. If it's 9 pin, I'd simply need a different extension for that one.

 

[eRicken]

Looks like the 25A controller has the larger motor connector, so I'd need an adapter. I might be better off with the 20A controller as it is rated for a 500 watt motor (and uses the correct plug). Its size per the listing is 63mm - do you know if that one is wrong too? Seems odd that it would be bigger than the 25A model. The battery connectors would fit for either as I have bullet type ones, but I'd have to find out more about the other connectors... they look different from what I'm expecting, but there isn't a close up photo.

 

[eRicken]

hmm.. ok I thought Higo and Julet were both clones of another brand connector, but were all interchangeable, but I dont' really know. 1000watt and above motors usually have a larger connector that can handle the increased load without melting. The 8/9 pin I was talking about for the display just goes to a harness that splits into 4 or 5 plugs for the display, brakes, throttle, etc. I think the extra plug on the 9->5 is for headlights. My bike has the 8->4 version, so if I match it I wouldn't need to swap it out. Not a major consideration, but one less thing to do. The final plug on the harness for the display on either is the same 5 pin I think. I guess it's possible Aventon has their own pinouts for each plug, so it may be best to swap out the harness either way. If they switched them around Idk if it would be in the harness or at the controller.

Otherwise, I think the 20A version of Bafangs controller is the way to go. My bike motor is supposed to be rated at 500 watts.

 

[eRicken]

Okay so it says 10A nominal and 20A max.

EUNORAU ENA 36V/48V 15A/20A Sin-wave Controller

36V15A sin-wave controller for ENA 36V250W hub motor kit (L:85.5mm W:57.5mm; H:35mm) 36V20A sin-wave controller for ENA 36V500W front/rear hub wheel motor kit (L:119mm; W:57.5mm; H:35mm) 48V20A sin-wave controller for ENA 48V500W front/rear hub motor kit (L:124.5mm; W:63mm; H:40mm) Brand...

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The stock Aventon says 500W nominal and 750W max.

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So with the Eunorau 20A controller, it will be 480W nominal, 960W max.
I guess you would see some gains?

Idk about gains. I just saw this one was rated for 500 watt motors vs. the 1000 watt motor recommendation of the 25A controller. Would there be any benefit using the larger controller?

 

[Pokerdogg]

Yes, you will gain more power.
The power is not determined by the motor itself, it's determined by the controller.

That's why RadRover for example, has a 350W(or 500W?) motor with 750W rated controller, making it a 750W ebike.
Overvolting is a common practice among manufactures as it can be done relatively safely.

Juiced for example, started with 350W motor, however without doing anything they upgraded the controller to 650W, ultimately making it 750W.

RadRover with Bolton upgrade with "Real 750W" motor.

Overvolting ebikes

I am confused. I thought the 25A controller has higher current, not higher voltage. Over volting is increasing the voltage, not current?

 

[harryS]

FYI, the circuit board in my 6 FET 20A KT controller is 54 x 88 mm, and the electrolytic caps are 26mm from their top to the opposite side of the circuit board. The case height is 36 mm, so one could save 10 mm there. but you still need a 30 x 55 space to enclose a potted controller with heat sink.

If you want more current, they do have a 9FET 25A controller that could be mounted on the frame in a plastic case. Picture of my wife's 2nd bike with the case mounted controller,


What's the purpose, to have an unlocked system? With 48V, these KT units will probably get you up to 24-25 mph on throttle, while Aventon holds you to 20 mph? I'm not a speed fanatic, so the 20A controllers are enough, but if you want some headroom, I think a 25A unit is an external case is a better choice. One can dial the the current in the display settings to set the PAS speeds lower, if desired. It doesn't affect what the throttle can deliver.

 

[m@Robertson]

Not sure it got ironed out in the above, but HIGO and Julet connectors are interchangeable. One is slightly different than the other resulting in a more-snug (really snug) connection, but thats it. They are both conforming to a '6mm' connector standard

comparing 6 mm HIGO Mini-B with JULET Gen-1 connectors

comparing 6 mm HIGO Mini-B with JULET Gen-1 connectors

www.e-bike-technologies.de

I used to have this seller make custom cables for me before COVID when he shut down sales outside of the EU. He's an excellent source for quality product and has a bunch of stuff pre-made and sold from inventory.

 

[m@Robertson]

Right... the KT controllers that are 500w/25a or less use the Z910. The ones 30a+ use the Z916. Exceptions to this might be the Bolton/Rad upgrade controllers where Rad gave their motors the big plug despite their being 500w motor cores.

KT also sells controllers that are square wave or sine wave and thats the only difference. voltage/amperage is identical.

This seller has a lot of KT products and at least purports to actually be KT. Maybe there are more options to consider here. They do show the dimensions of their three most-common sizes in the imagery.

41.71US $ 30% OFF|Kt Ebike Controller 36v 250w 350w 48v 500w 750w 1000w 1500w Waterproof Brushless Electric Bicycle Controller With Light Function - Electric Bicycle Accessories - AliExpress

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[m@Robertson]

I don't think we're talking about KT controller anymore because it won't (likely) fit inside of the frame of Aventon Pace 500.

Are you guys counting the small size units that are 17a? I've been trying to follow and it looks like the size chosen was the mid-size controller, and thats the one that is a bit too big. The small controller shown in that ad I linked is 52mm wide x 30mm high by 80mm long. I have one in my controller box in my garage - its a 48v/20a unit for an aftermarket Sondors upgrade. Unfortunately Luna just sold out of them recently (so the OP would have to do an Ali buy to get that size), but I can measure the thing to get a reality check on the reported controller size if that would help.

 

[eRicken]

Sorry, I didn't mean to abandon my thread, real life pulled me away for a bit.

I wasn't able to cancel my orders - they sellers got them shipped first thing Monday. So the KT controller & display will be coming my way regardless. I can still return them after they arrive in 2+ weeks, but harryS' post gives me hope. The controller that is coming is the 22A model, so hopefully the guts of it won't be too much bigger than the 20A. I should be able to work with a controller that is 26x54x88 mm. If not, I guess I'll have to look at putting on an external box or going with the Bafang controllers. Probably Bafang at that point if the return shipping isn't too expensive.

One more thing I found with the Bafang is that it has a 3 pin brake sensor and my current brakes have 2 pins. Not sure if that would be a simple rewiring job, or if I'd need new brake sensors. The brakes are hydraulic, so it would be more involved than with cable brakes I'd think.

edit -> here's the link to the controller I bought (the 22A option): https://ebay.us/SJLKQy

 

[eRicken]

As far as my original intent - I picked up one of the last Aventon Paces that had their old controller without realizing it. The PAS 1 & 2 settings are a bit too strong and the throttle only engages if you are pedaling. Which doesn't sound so bad, but it also means it won't engage if you pause pedaling while going down a hill, or are using the throttle, then let off for some reason. I can't quite figure out how the throttle would ever be useful.

They have an upgrade kit, but once I started thinking about the settings, I realized I would want it different from their new settings anyway. And with the KT setup, I'm still about $30 less than the cost of the upgrade kit.

I didn't really think about making the motor more powerful, though I wouldn't mind it. Not too many hills around me have made me shift to a lower gear, but power is always good. I stopped at 22A for the KT controllers mostly because of the size issue and because I thought the 17A would be too weak.

 

[unikid]

@eRicken - just curious what did you end up doing?

I just picked up a used 350 for really cheap on Craigslist for my wife. We quickly discovered the PAS was way too fast for anybody wanting to get an actual workout at lower speeds so I started searching online for solutions. I quickly learned that we had the first generation controller and Aventon offered a newer one. However I saw people complain that the new system requires you to be in PAS 1 or higher for the throttle to work, and they did nothing to address the PAS speed settings being way too high. Since our bike throttle works while in PAS 0 which we actually like, I decided to try to improve the throttle setup so my wife can do her own poor man's PAS herself and not rely on the controller. Here is what I have done so far:

1. Moved the throttle directly next to the hand grip. Our bike initially came with the brake lever mounted next to the grip which made it hard to reach the throttle, let alone control. Not sure if that's how all Aventons come, but it is not ergonomically friendly for smaller-handed riders. So I switched those around. We did a ride yesterday and the wife found the new setup easier to operate but still found it hard to keep her thumb steady without the speed fluctuating around.

2. Mounted the throttle upside down. Searching online I found a guy explaining why he always mounted older Bafang right-handed thumb throttles on the left side, upside down, to allow better control for off-road riding. That gave me the idea to try the same thing on the 350. Today I removed the throttle and flipped it around with the lever pointing UP. On a quick test ride I found I could easily rest my thumb on the housing and the lever at the same time. Then simply roll my thumb/hand forward and hold it there to lock in any speed I wanted. With minimal speed fluctuation. Maybe .1 or .2 mph only. I will have my wife try it out on our next ride to see if this solves the problem for her.

 

[banshee28]

As far as my original intent - I picked up one of the last Aventon Paces that had their old controller without realizing it. The PAS 1 & 2 settings are a bit too strong and the throttle only engages if you are pedaling. Which doesn't sound so bad, but it also means it won't engage if you pause pedaling while going down a hill, or are using the throttle, then let off for some reason. I can't quite figure out how the throttle would ever be useful.

They have an upgrade kit, but once I started thinking about the settings, I realized I would want it different from their new settings anyway. And with the KT setup, I'm still about $30 less than the cost of the upgrade kit.

I didn't really think about making the motor more powerful, though I wouldn't mind it. Not too many hills around me have made me shift to a lower gear, but power is always good. I stopped at 22A for the KT controllers mostly because of the size issue and because I thought the 17A would be too weak.

Also have the Pace 500 and interested in this upgrade. I guess I have the original controller and agree not much to really gain with the Aventon upgrade option. I have KT controllers on my other ebike so if this fits, this may be something I can retrofit here on the 500. Did OP get around to getting the 22A model working?

 

[harryS]

The 20A KT sinewave controller sold by PSWpower is 93mm long. 63mm wide, and 36mm high. I just received mine from the PSWpower aliexporess outlet. About 38 bucks shipped and it took six weeks. LCD3's are also about $39-40 from various sellers.

The smaller \ 25A model is 127mm x 66mm x 39mm, my measurements. If you have room, it's more fun, and with the LCD3, you can turn down the PAS current by up to 50%.