2019 giant trance pro plus range

[ebikenoon]

Hi all, new ish ebike rider. I bought a slightly used 2019 giant ebike. I ride almost exclusively hard pack dirt and ashfault surface, called chip seal here in new zealand. I took the bike for a service and computer upgrades etc. I am only getting 50k range at power level 2. This was a surprise to me. Looking at reviews I see max watt and some other stuff but not range.
Does 50k at pretty low settings sound right? I know for example that I did 25k at no more than power level 2 and I was down to half power.
Yes that charger said I had a full charge before I left the house.

Thanks in advance

 

[Stefan Mikes]

50 km with the 500 Wh battery for this ebike at 2nd assist level is just right.

FYI, Giant now offers an 800 Wh battery that should be compatible with your Trance E+ Pro. You also need an extra battery cover called (I think) a "rock guard".

 

[ebikenoon]

50 km with the 500 Wh battery for this ebike at 2nd assist level is just right.

FYI, Giant now offers an 800 Wh battery that should be compatible with your Trance E+ Pro. You also need an extra battery cover called (I think) a "rock guard".

Thank you I will look into it

 

[PDoz]

So are these nth or sth km? Super sticky volcanic rock with twists and turns, like, say Queen Charlotte Pass ? A bit of elevation NZ style? Wandering along the glacier from the Mt Cook carpark ? Damn ....lots of great motorbike memories....

You should easily get 1200 m elevation, if not, then start looking at what's wrong

 

[ebikenoon]

I am half way from Palmerston North and wellington. North Island, We have these trails along SH1 from Otaki to Mana. But I usually ride from PekaPeka to paekakariki. That is just over 50k round trip. my riding computer and gps says 54 point something. And I am here talking about this because I ran out of battery at just over 50k, so that last 3 or 4 k's sucked.

 

[PDoz]

So just the coast route ? You should be able to manage better than that ! AND riding without assistance shouldn't suck on the flats.

Sorry if I'm telling you how to suck eggs, but lets start with the simple things:

1 Check " battery health" - it's a relatively meaningless measurement on the giant app , but 100% charged does not equal a full, fresh battery - if the battery is stuffed you'll never get the range that bike should be capable of.

2 Check what the assistance is actually set at - the giant app has the ability to adjust % of assistance at each level. I used to run something like 25% at 1 , 75% at 2 , 150% at 3 , 250% at 4 then the full power at 5 . I found 25% made up for the bikes weight etc and it felt like a normal bike, 75% was enough to feel powerfull on flat riding. You may want yo asjust the lower 3 settings even lower than that so you can match the terrain you ride?

3 Suspension - I'm not clear on which model you have, but eg the "1" has a fox dps with a 3 way lever - middle setting for comfortable pedal efficient riding, locked out for real efficiency, and only use " open" down hill! . Check your sag - the maestro linkages are very sensitive to sag, anything over 25% and you lose pedaling efficiency.

4 tyres - consider an efficient running tyre at high enough pressure. This depends on what your needs are

5 is something dragging? Flip the bike over , spin the wheels. The giant hubs can be tricky to adjust and need a bit of freeplay to run smooth. Brakes dragging? Bearings stuffed? ps giant wheel bearings are junk - replace them with aftermarket when the time comes

6 don't read this yet....the motor...it should be quiet and smooth. Turn the cranks by hand, any resistance or grinding? It only takes one bad pedal strike at full power to chew out plastic gears....

 

[PDoz]

Small print, mid way through the 2019 range they changed the motor from a yamaha pwx 1 to pwx 2 . If your bike feels like assistance drops off beyond a cadence of 70 and it growls under full power you have the pwx 1 . I found my range and enjoyment improved when my 1 was replaced by a 2 . I never kept records of the range change , but I stopped worrying about that 1200 m elevation I mentioned earlier. There's a hill I climbed repeatedly when doing car + giant shuttles with my kids -350 m elevation in 3 km ( then drop back on a choice of 5 trails) . With the pwx 1 , I'd be watching my battery level on the 4 th loop, with the pwx 2 I'd be questioning my sanity on the 5 th loop....

 

[ebikenoon]

thank you all, I do keep my tyre pressures up at about 40 on hard pack, I had the bike in for a service so I am ASSUMING, its good to go. I dont have an app for my bike.
it sux to ride no power, like its dragging an anchor. I am 65 though. :O @PDoz I will check the motor thing. thx mate. Also great ideas above, I will go through them one by one.
its a 2019 Trance E + pro , suspension is set to firm all the time as I just ride hard pack at the moment. when 3 lights on the power level are lit I can defiantly feel "power"

 

[PDoz]

Try downloading the giant app to your phone, hopefully ypu'll be able to get a version that is compatible with your model, and then be able to check battery health / adjust amount of assistance at each level AND have a true read out of battery % on your phone instead of just number of bars.

Unfortunately, we can't assume a service is done well - even my long term ( and trusted) bike mechanic would occasionally get the rear hub adjustment on my giant wrong - they're a fussy design! Many bike mechanics have very little understanding of the electric components, but hopefully they connected your bike up and gave you a printout which included battery health / error codes etc ?

The 2019 trance e pro came in 4 specification models with different components and particularly rear shocks. Highest spec was 0 , lowest 3 . At the lowest spec (3) , the rear shock was a basic unit without the ability to adjust compression dampening , so like riding a pogo stick.....whilst the fancy 0 model had a remote reservoir high quality shock. By now, your shock is likely to be tired if it hasn't been regularly serviced, so if / when the time comes you may want to talk to your dealer about at least a fox dps with the 3 position lever ( ie upgrade rather than service ) .

re tyres - what do you have fitted? It's surprising how much energy a chunky mountain bike tyre saps ( but important to have that extra grip if you intend doing more challenging trails ) . This can be particularly important at the higher speeds you guys on the small islands are allowed ( in aus , we only get assistance to 25 k)

 

[Stefan Mikes]

You are overthinking it @PDoz. I owned a 2020 Giant Trance E+ Pro 2 with a 500 Wh battery and PWX2 motor. I rode the e-bike in default assistance Level 2 on one of my first forest rides:

As I noticed the battery level dropping and went onto asphalt, I reduced the assistance to default Level 1. I had to pedal with no assistance for the last five kilometres or so.

Then I made a forest ride in the Giant Auto mode:

It was even worse. I lost the battery power at the 53rd kilometre and had to pedal for the remaining distance on the pedal power, in torrential rain, lost amongst the marshes and in the forest.

The typical distance on the battery I was getting was around 64 km at the default Level 1 assist, and not more. I was satisfied when I eventually bought a 625 Wh battery, which allowed me for longer rides. Now, it is my brother who rides the Trance E+. If he needs the assistance, he rides at the minimum configurable Level 1 assistance, which is 50%. He also pedals unpowered whenever he can. And yes, he could do a 100 mile ride on a single 625 Wh battery. Mostly without any assistance. His 160+ km ride upwind took him 10 hours pedalling net. His return ride took him 7 hours but he was assisted by very strong tailwind.

The range of 50+ km on a Giant Trance E+ Pro with the 500 Wh battery in Level 2 is normal, especially when the battery is not brand new.

The lowest assistance level is 50%, not 25%.

 

[ebikenoon]

You are overthinking it @PDoz. I owned a 2020 Giant Trance E+ Pro 2 with a 500 Wh battery and PWX2 motor. I rode the e-bike in default assistance Level 2 on one of my first forest rides:
View attachment 164298
As I noticed the battery level dropping and went onto asphalt, I reduced the assistance to default Level 1. I had to pedal with no assistance for the last five kilometres or so.

Then I made a forest ride in the Giant Auto mode:
View attachment 164299
It was even worse. I lost the battery power at the 53rd kilometre and had to pedal for the remaining distance on the pedal power, in torrential rain, lost amongst the marshes and in the forest.

The typical distance on the battery I was getting was around 64 km at the default Level 1 assist, and not more. I was satisfied when I eventually bought a 625 Wh battery, which allowed me for longer rides. Now, it is my brother who rides the Trance E+. If he needs the assistance, he rides at the minimum configurable Level 1 assistance, which is 50%. He also pedals unpowered whenever he can. And yes, he could do a 100 mile ride on a single 625 Wh battery. Mostly without any assistance. His 160+ km ride upwind took him 10 hours pedalling net. His return ride took him 7 hours but he was assisted by very strong tailwind.

The range of 50+ km on a Giant Trance E+ Pro with the 500 Wh battery in Level 2 is normal, especially when the battery is not brand new.

View attachment 164300
The lowest assistance level is 50%, not 25%.

Hey @Stefan Mikes thank you. I lost battery power at almost the exact same time (53k or a little less). this is the response I got from a local Giant battery dealer

your bike can use the 500w, 625w or 800w EnergyPak batteries. Due to manufacturing delays we currently only have 800w, this battery does also require a different battery cover. We will have a few 500w batteries arriving at the start of December, but no ETA for the 625w.

If you would like to purchase or order any of these please contact your preferred Giant Dealer, you can use our store find at the link below

https://www.giant-bicycles.com/nz/stores



244M36500I-08V E-BIKE ENERGYPAK SMART INTEGRATED 500WH RRP$1490.99

700000053 ENERGYPAK SMART 800WH W/O COVER RRP$1879.95

700000063 ENERGYPAK SMART 800WH COVER TYPE B RRP$119.95

I almost had a heart attack when I say the prices, there is no way I can afford any of these.
So I guess I am just going to have to either ride 50k or less or bring my charger and hope I can find a place that will let me plug my bike in while I have lunch before the return trip.
I guess I should have done more research, I am very unhappy with a 50k range for a 6,000 Dollar bike.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Sad to hear about it but the fact is big batteries are prohibitively expensive.

Try to install the Giant RideControl App and connect it to your e-bike. Were I you, I would set your preferred assistance preset to 100% (the e-bike would assist you with the same power as your legs can provide). That alone would increase your battery range. After several months of riding - with your fitness improving, you might be able to reduce the assistance down to 75, and perhaps even 50%, resulting in very long rides.

I was told by my friend I got spoilt by e-bikes as I got used to riding relatively fast without any understanding the process of getting fit starts from slow rides. I gradually reduce the assistance on my e-bikes and sometimes (shudder!) am riding unassisted. It has been a long process for me. I'd say 100-125% Giant assistance is a very good starting point!

Curious: What is the maximum assisted speed on your Trance?

 

[PDoz]

Stefan, with respect I have owned my giant full e pro for over 5 years now - the 2018 precursor to the trance. I understand you handed your trance to your brother with a year.

Throughout the time I've owned that bike, I had ample opportunity to " overthink" factors affecting range . This included an " epic" graded mountain bike ride with over 100 other emtb's ( and at least 20x 2019 trances) about 1400 m elevation gain over a 59 km route ( completed with 45 % of my 500 wh battery, btw ) . I frequently rode a reproducible route shuttling my kids up a 350 m elevation 4x4 track - so had the opportunity to do this with varying suspension / tyre settings etc. My bike displays % remaining charge, so yes I had lots of opportunity to " overthink" as I ground my way up that hill.... AND I've made most of the mistakes I mentioned so I've seen first hand the consequences. The last few hundred meters getting back up that hill to where the car is parked are STEEP - most people push their bikes for that section. So running out of battery would mean leaving the bike and walking to the car. I was still recovering from my brocken foot....so walking was not something I was keen on.

Sorry, but faced with spending $2k on a battery or fixing simple things like appropriate tyres, freely adjustable support levels or poorly adjusted hubs - that's common sense to me! Especially when we're only looking for a 10 % improvement in range!

The " auto" setting isn't available on a pwx1 ( and it's dreadful for economy ) , and in NZ even a flat coastal route has more than your 193 m elevation in 67 km !!!!

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Throughout the time I've owned that bike, I had ample opportunity to " overthink" factors affecting range .

Can I assume you are a far younger person than I am, and that you are a really fit person? These two factors affect any bike range the most.

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A rider of 59 years of age, Giant Trance E+ 2 Pro, a single 625 Wh battery.

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The same rider, the same e-bike, note the distance, elevation gain, the time ridden.

Yes, I gave the Trance E+ to a person with proper legs. Does it prove the range of the e-bike is usually that great? No. It is the proper rider. Most of us could not reproduce it. Besides, I'd like to see your longest ride with the biggest elevation gain @PDoz if you want to discuss the Giant e-bike range

 

[PDoz]

Stefan, I'm far from a " really fit person" . I can share an active lifestyle with family and friends due to the magic of electric assistance , but my knees and feet have suffered from decades of trauma - I haven't participated in sports at an elite level since my teenage years. Sure, I still do extreme sporting activities, but that reflects more on my stupidity than fitness.

On the giant, I expect 1200 m elevation gain, rely on 1000 m, but know I can stretch that out to 1500 m with care. Anything beyond that stops being fun - so the 1400 m elevation ride with 45% remaining power was a full day of unnecessary range anxiety .

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Oh, OK.
If we are talking about the flat terrain rides, it is all down to the rider's fitness, chosen assistance level, and the average speed. The latter is the major contributing factor for the flat rides, with headwind making the things even worse (the power demand is the cubic function of the relative speed of the cyclist against the air; and an e-MTB is not an aero bike). As I say, I had been in the same position as @ebikenoon and confirm there is nothing wrong with his e-bike.

You PDoz and I both ride lighweight, low power e-bikes now. Our batteries are of small capacity but you can do a significant elevation gain and I can ride for a considerable distance on the flats. Our lightweight e-bikes consume about half or less the charge required by the full-power Trance E+. You need to pedal harder and I need to ride slower to achieve these goals. Right?

 

[PDoz]

Oh, OK.
If we are talking about the flat terrain rides, it is all down to the rider's fitness, chosen assistance level, and the average speed. The latter is the major contributing factor for the flat rides, with headwind making the things even worse (the power demand is the cubic function of the relative speed of the cyclist against the air; and an e-MTB is not an aero bike). As I say, I had been in the same position as @ebikenoon and confirm there is nothing wrong with his e-bike.

You PDoz and I both ride lighweight, low power e-bikes now. Our batteries are of small capacity but you can do significant elevation gain and I can ride for a considerable distance on the flats. Our lightweight e-bikes consume about half or less the charge required by the full-power Trance E+. You need to pedal harder and I need to ride slower to achieve these goals. Right?

You're making some weird assumptions - I haven't heard the OP mention leg issues, and have you been to NZ ??? Magical place, even the north island To declare that there is nothing wrong with the bike seems odd.

In terms of my levo sl - I'm marginally slower uphill and spin the cranks faster , but faster downhill and actually about 10% faster over all - timed on my mid week training loop. It feels like LESS effort most of the time because the bike is far more efficient to ride - 29" wheels, better ergos, and a LOT lighter. My smile muscles get a bit tired

 

[Stefan Mikes]

In terms of my levo sl - I'm marginally slower uphill

Interesting, taking into account the peak power of a Giant Trance E+ of 520 W, and the peak power of Levo SL of 240 W. Have you tried a significant climb such as >= 14% on the pavement? What does your power meter read?

 

[Stefan Mikes]

See this calculation:

Let us assume the Trance E+ Level 2 assist is 125% (I don't know what it is by default indeed). If @ebikenoon pedals at 100 W average, the motor gives the assist of 125 W mechanical. At 80% motor efficiency, the average power draw is 125/0.8 = 156 W. The battery initial charge is 500 Wh, of which around 80% is useful* for a Giant e-bike, making it the effective capacity of 400 Wh. The effective ride time would be 400 Wh/156 W = 2.56 hour. I assume the average speed of 21 km/h, giving the possible range of 2.56 * 21 = 54 km if there is no headwind and the ground is totally flat.
-----------
*) Because below the 20% Giant battery charge, the remaining charge goes off the cliff very fast.

 

[ebikenoon]

Curious: What is the maximum assisted speed on your Trance?

restricted to 30kph, if I try to pedal faster it feels like its actually trying to slow you down