2016 Turbo X: First week (and beyond) commuting impressions

[Douglas Ruby]

The Turbo is really pretty straight forward. It is torque sensing, not cadence sensing. The ECO levels control the power of the assist. At full TURBO, it is easier to get to the top speed, and you get more "Watts" of assistance as you go. In the case of my base Turbo, that is 200 Watts. At ECO50, you get about 1/2 the Wattage of help. On my bike, that would be around 100 Watts. The "feel" through the pedals is less noticeable, but I can get the 100 Watts all the way up to the limit speed (26-28 mph). The range at ECO50 also approx. doubles over full TURBO assuming I am going around the same speed or not too far off.

Or as another says, it feels like me, just faster.

 

[ROJA]

OK, I have to say WOW! I just hit 250 miles on my Turbo X (2016) and I realized that I've done all my rides in Eco mode (between 50-70) for a better workout. I did my first commute (18 miles, only did one way today) in "Turbo" mode and it DEFINITELY makes a difference. The bike pulls harder and goes faster. I was still working hard, but I definitely felt like I spent more time in the 25-27 range. It was pretty awesome and didn't use much more battery than in Eco60, although it's hard to tell due to different wind conditions, etc.

 

[ROJA]

Had an interesting commute today with a strong headwind. Instead of ending with my usual ~30% battery life, I finished my 20 miles with only 8% left!

 

[Saratoga Dave]

Hellacious headwinds here today too along the Erie Canal. I could barely keep up 13mph on flat ground. It was wild. Fun going back though!

 

[garybonnar]

Hi, does anyone know if you can import your own gpx routes into mission control app please?

 

[Douglas Ruby]

Check this and send email to the support group: https://electricbikereview.com/forums/threads/mission-control-documentation-and-support.9347/

 

[garybonnar]

Thanks for that, I have e-mailed specialised about gpx twice and got no reply

 

[Douglas Ruby]

You sent your email specifically to: [email protected]m ? Not to the regular support address!

 

[garybonnar]

Thanks l will try that

 

[ferrellms]

The Turbo is really pretty straight forward. It is torque sensing, not cadence sensing. The ECO levels control the power of the assist. At full TURBO, it is easier to get to the top speed, and you get more "Watts" of assistance as you go. In the case of my base Turbo, that is 200 Watts. At ECO50, you get about 1/2 the Wattage of help. On my bike, that would be around 100 Watts. The "feel" through the pedals is less noticeable, but I can get the 100 Watts all the way up to the limit speed (26-28 mph). The range at ECO50 also approx. doubles over full TURBO assuming I am going around the same speed or not too far off.

Or as another says, it feels like me, just faster.

Hi, I am not sure this is correct. I believe that the wattage used varies based on your pedaling wattage. I believe that the torque sensor senses your wattage and then tells the motor to apply that amount multiplied by ECO. So, if you are putting out 100 watts, in full turbo the motor is also putting out 100 watts, but if in ECO 50, is putting out 50 watts. This also allows the motor to really put out short-term power (like your legs can for a brief time) far beyond the rated power (reportedly up to 750 watts for the motor in my bike).

I'd love to hear from someone with real knowledge on this.

 

[Douglas Ruby]

Hi, I am not sure this is correct. I believe that the wattage used varies based on your pedaling wattage. I believe that the torque sensor senses your wattage and then tells the motor to apply that amount multiplied by ECO. So, if you are putting out 100 watts, in full turbo the motor is also putting out 100 watts, but if in ECO 50, is putting out 50 watts. This also allows the motor to really put out short-term power (like your legs can for a brief time) far beyond the rated power (reportedly up to 750 watts for the motor in my bike).

I'd love to hear from someone with real knowledge on this.

I think you are mostly right. One can get more than 200 watts at full Turbo for short periods of time. I was thinking more in terms of average motor output rather than peak in my earlier post. I have found that battery life doubles at ECO40-50 compared with TURBO and Strava power estimates scale back accordingly once you subtract the amount of power I typically can add to the equation. However, I do not agree about your statement that if I am putting out 100 watts the motor only puts out 100 watts in full Turbo. My average output on my own is in the 115-120 watt range (based on riding my non assisted bike). When I ride my Turbo "hard" at a 25 mph average, the overall power average in Strava can be as much as 270-280 watts. I know the Strava estimate is low since it under estimates the weight of the bike significantly. So at full Turbo, I believe that the motor puts out quite a bit more power than I do.

 

[ferrellms]

I think you are mostly right. One can get more than 200 watts at full Turbo for short periods of time. I was thinking more in terms of average motor output rather than peak in my earlier post. I have found that battery life doubles at ECO40-50 compared with TURBO and Strava power estimates scale back accordingly once you subtract the amount of power I typically can add to the equation. However, I do not agree about your statement that if I am putting out 100 watts the motor only puts out 100 watts in full Turbo. My average output on my own is in the 115-120 watt range (based on riding my non assisted bike). When I ride my Turbo "hard" at a 25 mph average, the overall power average in Strava can be as much as 270-280 watts. I know the Strava estimate is low since it under estimates the weight of the bike significantly. So at full Turbo, I believe that the motor puts out quite a bit more power than I do.

Hi, this is an interesting discussion, so I did some investigation. Here is some speculation about how all this works that fits our experiences and intuitions. It has to do with how torque and power relate.

Power and torque are related but not the same thing. Power = torque * cadence. Voltage is directly proportional to wattage. Varying the voltage (by varying resistance) is how battery-operated power is controlled.

So if I can sense torque as it changes, and I can sense cadence as it changes, and I have a battery whose characteristics I understand and can control voltage for, I can compute the power needed to match the power the rider is putting out as it changes, and control the voltage changes needed to match that power. If I then multiply that by ECO -

It is indeed possible that the base power factor for computation of the amount of power to put out is more than 100% of the rider power, which would account for your observations.

 

[StormTrooper2]

Between some lower back and torso pains, some bad weather, and then the Flu, I've had little seat time on my Turbo for almost 8 weeks (I've gone on shorter rides on my Trek Domane 4.5). A little esearch uncovered the reason for the body pains - I'm riding long distances (28 miles each way) commuting, but have not been doing a variety of activities that build core strength (e.g. swimming, strength training, and core exercises with the big inflated ball, etc.). The take away from all my reading boils down to this: Cycling requires core strength, but cycling doesn't build core strength. I most likely wouldn't notice this fact as painfully if my commute was shorter. The problem is that as the legs and glutes get stronger relative to a weak torso, the core is over worked simply trying to be a stabilizing foundation for all the forces the legs and glutes repetitively apply over the course of a 56-mile round trip commute 2 or 3 times per week. So I've seen rapid improvement following the ball exercises and strength training, though I've limited my biking to short fitness rides (about 16 miles) on the Trek. My goal is to build the core, then return to the long commutes.

 

[ROJA]

I know the Strava estimate is low since it under estimates the weight of the bike significantly. So at full Turbo, I believe that the motor puts out quite a bit more power than I do.

Hey Douglas- In your Strava profile, there are gear settings where you can include the weight of your bike. I'm not sure if Strava factors that into the power estimates, though.

 

[Bud in Denver]

The Turbo is really pretty straight forward. It is torque sensing, not cadence sensing. The ECO levels control the power of the assist. At full TURBO, it is easier to get to the top speed, and you get more "Watts" of assistance as you go. In the case of my base Turbo, that is 200 Watts. At ECO50, you get about 1/2 the Wattage of help. On my bike, that would be around 100 Watts. The "feel" through the pedals is less noticeable, but I can get the 100 Watts all the way up to the limit speed (26-28 mph). The range at ECO50 also approx. doubles over full TURBO assuming I am going around the same speed or not too far off.

Or as another says, it feels like me, just faster.

Hey Douglas! Bud here in frozen Denver wishin I was on my Turbo X. Anyway, I know you've mentioned battery issues (and I've had some as well and that's another story) but please explain how my new 691 wh battery will differ from the stock one (thinking 429 wh?) . More power? Longer distance? Just curious.... Many thanks

 

[Douglas Ruby]

Hey Douglas! Bud here in frozen Denver wishin I was on my Turbo X. Anyway, I know you've mentioned battery issues (and I've had some as well and that's another story) but please explain how my new 691 wh battery will differ from the stock one (thinking 429 wh?) . More power? Longer distance? Just curious.... Many thanks

The 691 Wh battery gives you more range. The power to the ground is controlled by the hub motor. In your case you have either a 200W (2015) or 250W (2016) motor. If you have a 2015 Turbo X, the new battery gives you real time bluetooth monitoring as well. If you have a 2016, you already have that feature in your 562 Wh battery.