$10 DIY Smart Charger Alternative / Ver. 2.0

Gionnirocket · Feb 25, 2022

rounds said:
View attachment 115218

Yes, with just a bit of tinkering this will do nicely. Much smaller and lighter than I expected somehow.

Can't wait to get it dialed in. What settings do you use?

craigr

Things are a bit hectic here on the home front so I'm a bit distracted.
I'll have to give it a quick review as I haven't adjusted them in over a year. I do know that I do tweak it using anyone of my 3 chargers.. but lately I've only been using the one. Yes putting the connectors on it is a great idea as you can easily remove it from use if desired. I've even made an xlr/2.5mm adapter cable for different batteries.
If you enjoy tinkering, I highly recommend adding the watt meter as it's a nice way to monitor the battery capacity and calculate watt/mi if those stats tickle your fancy... and the meters are very inexpensive.

Gionnirocket · Feb 25, 2022

Ok... I was able to think a little clearer this morning whilst everyone was still sleeping.
My CD60 settings to achieve 82.5% charge of 51.0v
UP: 51.9 (using my other charger I believe it was 51.7)
dn: 40.0
OP: 3:00 (it's usually done charging in a little over 2 hours, but dependant on how much I run it down)
dOP: 900 (for an even 15 minute)

rounds · Feb 25, 2022

So I can't think of a way around this problem without modifying the battery or the charger, and that I don't really want to do. On my system, there seems to be a fatal flaw in using the CD60 and I don't think it will be applicable in my charging system. It's because both my battery is too smart, and my charger is also smarter than it should be. Check out the video link below to see the endless cycle that results when full charge is reached.

https://www.cir-engineering.com/bin/bike/CD60.mov

What seems to be happening is this:

- Battery reaches set charging voltage (UP on the CD60).

- CD60 disconnects the battery from the charger.

- Battery voltage disappears from the barrel connector as I proved with my DMM earlier in a post above*.

- Now the charger sees no voltage off the battery so the charger thinks the battery is full and has disconnected its self.

- With no current flowing to the battery and no battery voltage, the charger light goes from red to green.

- At that moment, the charger appears to shut down power completely momentarily to the battery (CD60) in this case.

- CD60 shuts off because it has no power from the battery or the charger momentarily.

- Charger cycles and a moment later the CD60 powers up again and reboots.

- Battery is at full charge so the CD60 again cuts the power from the charger to the battery.

- Charger shuts off (red to green momentarily), and CD60 loses power.

- Charger turns back on...

So without power on the CD60 all the time I'm stuck. If there is a way to spoof the CD60 into seeing a load continuously that might work. I thought about capacitors and simple circuits, but nothing simple really will work that I've come up with yet. Any ideas from others are welcome.

*I think the voltages I measured off the barrel connector earlier NOT during charge are really just phantom voltages and are not capable of providing real power. I have a very high end DMM and an voltage on the barrel pins no matter how little power will show up. I don't think there is any power of consequence on the barrel connector unless it's actively being charged.

Thinking...

craigr

rounds · Feb 25, 2022

Also Gionnirocket, since my battery disconnects power to the charging port unless it's being charged, I can't do your simple trick of reversing the charger and battery terminals on the CD60. I tried it even though I was sure it wouldn't work, and it did not.

I need something to force the charger NOT to shut off when the CD60 opens the battery connection...

craigr

rounds · Feb 25, 2022

I'm wondering if just putting a small resistor across the battery charge terminals if that might do it...

Gionnirocket · Feb 25, 2022

Ok... If I'm understanding the issue correctly.
First.. Are you reaching the desired charge %?
Setting the dOP: 900 should give you 15 minutes between cycling of the CD60

edit.... List all your settings

rounds · Feb 25, 2022

Gionnirocket said:
Ok... If I'm understanding the issue correctly.
First.. Are you reaching the desired charge %?
Setting the dOP: 900 should give you 15 minutes between cycling of the CD60

edit.... List all your settings

Yes, it reaches the desired charging percent.

However, setting dOP does not work because once the desired charge is set, the battery is disconnected by the CD60, this causes the charger to shut down and cut power. Now the CD60 has no power from the battery or the charger; it goes off. Charger comes back with juice a couple seconds later > CD60 powers up again FROM SCRATCH so the dOP is starting for the FIRST time again and never gets to count down the five minutes.

My settings have been all over the place trying to find a work around but basically:
UP = 52.0 volts
dN = 51.8 volts
OP = zeros for no timer
dOp = tried 0, 3, 10, 15, 999

Tried reversing the battery and charger like you did, but the battery doesn't provide enough power through the barrel connector unless the charger is actively charging the battery. So in that configuration the CD60 never comes on at all.

Thanks,
craigr

rounds · Feb 25, 2022

So yeah, I could put it on a wall timer, plug it up, when it reaches full charge the CD60, battery charger, and battery will continuously turn each other on and off until the wall timer stops the cycle. I don't think this would be good for the battery or charger though and I am sure the relay in the CD60 wasn't meant for that many duty cycles.

craigr

rounds · Feb 25, 2022

A simple mod I am considering is linking the battery charge terminal with the controller terminal inside the bike. This would let me charge directly to the drive terminals. However, that seems like a very bad idea.

Of I could just wire the barrel connector directly to the drive terminals of the battery.

Gionnirocket · Feb 25, 2022

rounds said:
A simple mod I am considering is linking the battery charge terminal with the controller terminal inside the bike. This would let me charge directly to the drive terminals. However, that seems like a very bad idea.

Of I could just wire the barrel connector directly to the drive terminals of the battery.

OK... I get it now. Both the battery and the charger need to see each other in order to output power. My batteries did not shut down the charging port immediately after charging and would stay active even those that needed an initial wake up from the charger.
I wouldn't suggest the solutions that you mentioned for safety.
Let me think about it...

rounds said:
Tried reversing the battery and charger like you did, but the battery doesn't provide enough power through the barrel connector unless the charger is actively charging the battery. So in that configuration the CD60 never comes on at all.

Thanks,
craigr

Does the CD60 illuminate and just not close the contracts?
Or is it totally dead with no power.

Gionnirocket · Feb 25, 2022

I still would like to if the CD60 is totally dead when the battery is the Input or if you just can't get it to initiate the charger. If it is the latter.. Try cycling the charger on/off/on by unplugging it for a second. Try this a few times with longer OFF intervals up to a few seconds.

If the CD60 is totally dead with the battery as the CD60 Input .. one safe work around could be a momentary contact switch wired in parallel to initiate the charge. Hold it for a few seconds, charge should start and when it reaches UP V it should shutdown completely

Sometimes you gotta hack the hack!

rounds · Feb 25, 2022

Gionnirocket said:
OK... I get it now. Both the battery and the charger need to see each other in order to output power. My batteries did not shut down the charging port immediately after charging and would stay active even those that needed an initial wake up from the charger.
I wouldn't suggest the solutions that you mentioned for safety.
Let me think about it...

Does the CD60 illuminate and just not close the contracts?
Or is it totally dead with no power.

Dead, no power.

I just got it working in a round about sort of way. Please forgive the poor drawing quality, I only have Paint Shop on this PC.

Here is the mockup:

The diode is there to keep the charger current from going backwards into the 12 volt power supply (it may not be necessary, but why not). It also may be prudent to put a 2 amp diode on the charger as well, but I really doubt that the power supply will hurt the charger. The 12 volt power supply keeps the CD60 alive when the charger and battery both shut down. I need to experiment more, but I think this will work fine if but a little more tedious.

I'd welcome better ideas

craigr

Gionnirocket · Feb 25, 2022

Try the momentary contact switch (or even just any switch operated manually) with the battery as the CD60 Input.

Funny... I thought of the same auxiliary power supply solution but kept scratching trying to think of something simpler and safer.

m@Robertson · Feb 25, 2022

Interesting idea all around. In case anyone is trying that link to the CD60, its dead. I found this one on Amazon for under $12.

Amazon.com: HELYZQ XY-CD60 Solar Battery Charger Controller Module DC6-60V Charging Discharge Control Low Voltage Current Protection Board : Automotive

Buy HELYZQ XY-CD60 Solar Battery Charger Controller Module DC6-60V Charging Discharge Control Low Voltage Current Protection Board: Battery Testers - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases

amzn.to

I took a completely different path to this goal. I'm using Mean Well LED power supplies that have built in pots for adjusting target voltage and current. Added a watt meter inline to be able to monitor progress. I use a mechanical countdown timer as a fail safe cutoff. I tried using lab power supplies and while they have a cool display, actual knobs to twiddle and superfine adjustment, one of the three I own unexpectedly died on me, which reminds me why I use the commercial-use Mean Wells with the gazillion-hour MTBFs. I've had too many chinesium chargers fail on me.

Gionnirocket · Feb 25, 2022

m@Robertson said:
Interesting idea all around. In case anyone is trying that link to the CD60, its dead. I found this one on Amazon for under $12.

Amazon.com: HELYZQ XY-CD60 Solar Battery Charger Controller Module DC6-60V Charging Discharge Control Low Voltage Current Protection Board : Automotive

Buy HELYZQ XY-CD60 Solar Battery Charger Controller Module DC6-60V Charging Discharge Control Low Voltage Current Protection Board: Battery Testers - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases

amzn.to

I took a completely different path to this goal. I'm using Mean Well LED power supplies that have built in pots for adjusting target voltage and current. Added a watt meter inline to be able to monitor progress. I use a mechanical countdown timer as a fail safe cutoff. I tried using lab power supplies and while they have a cool display, actual knobs to twiddle and superfine adjustment, one of the three I own unexpectedly died on me, which reminds me why I use the commercial-use Mean Wells with the gazillion-hour MTBFs. I've had too many chinesium chargers fail on me.

Yeah I've come across your mention of the Mean Well before and it'll probably be my next power supply / charger when needed. So far I've had good luck with the supplied chargers so I wasn't looking for a 4th round back up just yet. I like the CD60 as it can easily (or not @rounds ) be made to work with your existing charger or CC/CV power supply.
I too use a home automation timed outlet before the charger as another layer of safety and I also have it set to send me an initial email to confirm the macro is running and a time out email as a reminder that I'm ready to roll.

I don't know why... But hacking it is just more fun.

rounds · Feb 25, 2022

m@Robertson said:
Interesting idea all around. In case anyone is trying that link to the CD60, its dead. I found this one on Amazon for under $12.

Amazon.com: HELYZQ XY-CD60 Solar Battery Charger Controller Module DC6-60V Charging Discharge Control Low Voltage Current Protection Board : Automotive

Buy HELYZQ XY-CD60 Solar Battery Charger Controller Module DC6-60V Charging Discharge Control Low Voltage Current Protection Board: Battery Testers - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases

amzn.to

I took a completely different path to this goal. I'm using Mean Well LED power supplies that have built in pots for adjusting target voltage and current. Added a watt meter inline to be able to monitor progress. I use a mechanical countdown timer as a fail safe cutoff. I tried using lab power supplies and while they have a cool display, actual knobs to twiddle and superfine adjustment, one of the three I own unexpectedly died on me, which reminds me why I use the commercial-use Mean Wells with the gazillion-hour MTBFs. I've had too many chinesium chargers fail on me.

Just keep in mind that seller on Amazon has a delivery date 4-7 weeks from now; it's coming from China.

There are a lot of sellers on eBay for around $11-$12, but I paid the extra few bucks to get it quickly from a USA supplier:
eBay XY-CD60 USA Seller (link)

Sometimes I'm OK with being patient and waiting for the slow boat, but this project tickled my interest and I decided I wanted the CD60 in three days instead of who knows when.

I'd really rather have a direct power supply now instead of a charger. I could modify the charger and may just do that to keep constant voltage, but I just got the bike and charger less than three weeks ago and want to make sure everything is right before I hack away. Warranty and all.

craigr

rounds · Feb 25, 2022

Gionnirocket said:
Yeah I've come across your mention of the Mean Well before and it'll probably be my next power supply / charger when needed. So far I've had good luck with the supplied chargers so I wasn't looking for a 4th round back up just yet. I like the CD60 as it can easily (or not @rounds ) be made to work with your existing charger or CC/CV power supply.
I too use a home automation timed outlet before the charger as another layer of safety and I also have it set to send me an initial email to confirm the macro is running and a time out email as a reminder that I'm ready to roll.

I don't know why... But hacking it is just more fun.

I think I'm going to hook the power strip with charger, DC power supply, and XY-CD60 to an outlet controlled by my home automation system through Bluetooth. When I'm riding regularly I can set the timer to turn on the rig at 12:00AM and stay on for seven hours or something. Then it will go on every day and the battery will stay topped up at ~85%. In Winter when I'm not riding I'll change the settings in the CD60 and use it to hold the battery between 50-70%.

I've spent much more time on this than it's worth, but like Gionnirocket says, tinkering "keeps me out of trouble."

craigr

Gionnirocket · Feb 25, 2022

rounds said:
Just keep in mind that seller on Amazon has a delivery date 4-7 weeks from now; it's coming from China.

There are a lot of sellers on eBay for around $11-$12, but I paid the extra few bucks to get it quickly from a USA supplier:
eBay XY-CD60 USA Seller (link)

Sometimes I'm OK with being patient and waiting for the slow boat, but this project tickled my interest and I decided I wanted the CD60 in three days instead of who knows when.

I'd really rather have a direct power supply now instead of a charger. I could modify the charger and may just do that to keep constant voltage, but I just got the bike and charger less than three weeks ago and want to make sure everything is right before I hack away. Warranty and all.

craigr

Well that was going to be another suggestion... You can get a different charger or power supply as a work around.

I still think you should go with a switch in parallel to initiate the charge. It's simpler and less that can go wrong in a bad way compared to a parallel power supply protected with diodes.
Remember... These things don't like short circuit.

edit: I'll add that charging overnight while you sleep isn't the best practice. Yeah you'll be protected by the BMS, Charger and now the CD60 and the timed outlet, but over time it's too easy to become complacent with safety.
If you have no other choice... I would charge in a detached part of the house if possible and add a smoke detector to the room if not there already. Also set the timed outlet to just enough time with a small buffer added.

rounds · Feb 25, 2022

Gionnirocket said:
Well that was going to be another suggestion... You can get a different charger or power supply as a work around.

I still think you should go with a switch in parallel to initiate the charge. It's simpler and less that can go wrong in a bad way compared to a parallel power supply protected with diodes.
Remember... These things don't like short circuit.

edit: I'll add that charging overnight while you sleep isn't the best practice. Yeah you'll be protected by the BMS, Charger and now the CD60 and the timed outlet, but over time it's too easy to become complacent with safety.
If you have no other choice... I would charge in a detached part of the house if possible and add a smoke detector to the room if not there already. Also set the timed outlet to just enough time with a small buffer added.

All good points.

The one thing I don't understand is your switch in parallel? Could you please explain or draw out what you mean? If it's better I will do that! I really don't like having to plug two things in, but it's worth it as it stands.

This mockup should be less likely to burn the house down:

I'll get a proper box once I've decided on how it should be done for sure. I suspect even a 9v battery would be sufficient as a supplemental power supply for the three seconds or less it's required each cycle (I have it set to 900 seconds now too). The 9v battery would probably last for years. I also went through my wall wart bin and found a 6v 0.2A transformer which takes the place of the 12v 1.5A that I had in there first.

I think the charging system this battery uses is pretty fool proof. I don't think anything bad will happen if polarity is reversed or it shorts. The barrel connection from the battery just goes dead the instant anything anomalous happens to its connection.

If the delay times were just slightly longer this project would have been much simpler. Like if the charger stayed active and overlapped the barrel connection shutoff... oh well.

Thanks again,
craigr

Gionnirocket · Feb 25, 2022

This is what I am thinking.
excuse the crude drawing as well

When you push the button you will in essence connect the charger directly to the battery. Once charging starts, release the button. It should only take a second or two.
You can test this with a regular throw switch before going through the trouble but I highly recommend using a momentary contact switch so that you don't accidently leave the switch in the wrong position on a final build. I can't guarantee that this will work, but if the battery charge port goes dead after charging stops, I don't see why not. Timing of this in the battery is the unknown...but the dOP can help here as well with any delay

Push Button Switch Panel Mount with 5 Feet wire SPST Momentary OFF/ON RED | eBay

Red Push Button Switch. Panel Mount Design.

www.ebay.com

Momentary Green Pushbutton Switch - Panel Mount - SPST N.O. - 1/4" Mounting Hole | eBay

Panel mount design.

www.ebay.com

What ever style it should be a Momentary Pushbutton Switch - SPST N.O. in function

let me know what you think or if something needs clarification

$10 DIY Smart Charger Alternative / Ver. 2.0

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