Yamaha Cross RC. Wrong bike for me.

[fxrairhead]

So I was seduced by the killer deal on the RCs last fall. It is a really nice bike, but I think I didn't shop long enough to know what I really want in a bike. First off, I need an upright seating position due to an injury. I have put a upright extender as well as a short stem on the bike. It is as high as I can go with out extending the hydraulic lines. I also want a throttle, it would be very nice to have every once and awhile since my ride back home has a very steep up hill.

I'm reasonably sure I want to stick with mid drive. I don't want to break the bank though. They all seem so expensive. I guess I was spoiled by the price of the RC.

Some one point me in a direction please! Are hub drives really that bad? Pros and cons of hub vs geared hub?

 

[Chazmo]

Some one point me in a direction please! Are hub drives really that bad? Pros and cons of hub vs geared hub?

No. Ridiculous.

There’s a lot of (well-deserved) love for mid-drives around here, but a lot of these guys who will happily deride hub-drives haven’t ridden a modern one -- especially one fitted with torque and cadence-sensing controllers.

A lot will depend on what kind of bike you really want.

I will say that it’s good that you’re learning what does and doesn’t work for you. Bargain hunting is great, but only if you know what you want. I’d try to visit as many bike stores as you can and ride some of their models. I could recommend all kinds of stuff, but I don’t know if it fits your needs. Good luck.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

I’d try to visit as many bike stores as you can and ride some of their models.

Totally agree. A bike is more than its specs. Testing's the only way to insure the riding position and riding experience you want.

Test as many candidates as you can and buy locally to insure access to service after purchase.

As for climbing performance, best to test finalists on your target hill if at all possible, as there are many factors involved. Maybe with rentals if necessary.

My wife's 48 lb 750W, 65 Nm hub-drive (Velotric Breeze) easily climbs some pretty steep hills — worst so far maybe 8% for ⅓ mile. She's not a strong rider. My 38 lb 250W, 35 Nm mid-drive (Specialized Vado SL 1) climbs much tougher hills than that, but I have to work for it.

 

[Chargeride]

A midrive can just keep gearing down to climb anything to the point of losing front wheel grip.
A hub climbing a hill with you in bottom gear will start to turn power into heat and a doom spin of less help means slower climb, means more heat etc.

Hub advantages are its always there pushing as you mess with the gears, you can easily take run ups to inclines and use momentum to climb them without gear crunching.
There is a point of falloff for all hubs as the hill steepens and they are destined to fail, under that they are better than mid drives.
On flat land only...hub everytime.

Downside, the dreaded rear wheel removal process.

 

[Chazmo]

Downside, the dreaded rear wheel removal process.

Hah! I thought I was the only one who struggled with that!

 

[fxrairhead]

No. Ridiculous.

There’s a lot of (well-deserved) love for mid-drives around here, but a lot of these guys who will happily deride hub-drives haven’t ridden a modern one -- especially one fitted with torque and cadence-sensing controllers.

A lot will depend on what kind of bike you really want.

I will say that it’s good that you’re learning what does and doesn’t work for you. Bargain hunting is great, but only if you know what you want. I’d try to visit as many bike stores as you can and ride some of their models. I could recommend all kinds of stuff, but I don’t know if it fits your needs. Good luck.

My needs are simple. No commuting. Bike paths, some urban, suburban, and some light unpaved trails. Honestly, if there was a way to install a throttle on the Yamaha, I would extend stuff as needed to fit me, but as we all know, as of now, there is no way to add a throttle to Yamaha drive trains.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

I

My needs are simple. No commuting. Bike paths, some urban, suburban, and some light unpaved trails. Honestly, if there was a way to install a throttle on the Yamaha, I would extend stuff as needed to fit me, but as we all know, as of now, there is no way to add a throttle to Yamaha drive trains.

I think I've read about some mid-drives with boost buttons that instantly put you in the highest assist level and keep you there till you let go. Would a mid-drive like that work for you?

Tell us about your target hill. What's the average grade? Max grade? How long?

 

[fxrairhead]

I

I think I've read about some mid-drives with boost buttons that instantly put you in the highest assist level and keep you there till you let go. Would a mid-drive like that work for you?

Tell us about your target hill. What's the average grade? Max grade? How long?

I don't know anything about grades. The hill is probably not even 1/8 mile. There is another steep hill on one of the bike paths that is probably about 1/8 to 1/4 mile.

 

[harryS]

Shift that Yamaha to the bigger diameter rear gears and spin the pedals faster. Actually applies to any bike, whether unpowered, mid, or hub motor,

From Google's AI engine.. although I didn't have to look it up to know it works for me..
"Spinning your bike pedals uses less energy by .allowing your muscles to operate within their most efficient ranges, favoring the aerobic, fatigue-resistant slow-twitch muscle fibers over the less efficient, easily fatigued fast-twitch fibers that are stressed during powerful, low-cadence efforts. This high-cadence, lower-force approach conserves energy over longer periods by reducing the frequency of high-impact, high-force muscle contractions, which are metabolically costly and can quickly lead to fatigue."


.

 

[stompandgo]

What is your top dollar? Otherwise we are all spitting in the wind.

 

[fxrairhead]

Ideally straight across from the Yamaha, but that probably can't happen. Probably $2k or so max.

 

[stompandgo]

https://www.cannondale.com/en-us/bikes/electric/e-touring/tesoro-neo-x/tesoro-neo-x-2-c66242u

This a hell of a bike for the money.

 

[fxrairhead]

https://www.cannondale.com/en-us/bikes/electric/e-touring/tesoro-neo-x/tesoro-neo-x-2-c66242u

This a hell of a bike for the money.

Unless I missed it, no throttle.

 

[indianajo]

Hah! I thought I was the only one who struggled with that!

You are. I put extra slack in my wiring harness, then just unclip the extra when changing a flat. Dont even need to nnplug the motor, just lay it on the ground. Do the flat, wheel back in fork, fold up the extra harness again. Coupla new ty-wraps are about 15 cents.
Did not convert your own bike? Beauty over function every time when it has to be sold on a dealer floor.

 

[Chazmo]

You are. I put extra slack in my wiring harness, then just unclip the extra when changing a flat. Dont even need to nnplug the motor, just lay it on the ground. Do the flat, wheel back in fork, fold up the extra harness again. Coupla new ty-wraps are about 15 cents.
Did not convert your own bike? Beauty over function every time when it has to be sold on a dealer floor.

Oh, hey, IJ, the cabling is relatively easy and yeah there’s the tie-wraps, but that’s certainly not all… It’s a bunch of other stuff, including extra locking washers and stuff to keep the wheel from moving in the dropouts that makes it challenging to do. At least on my bike (which was DTC).

 

[MrClortho]

I ride a class 1, mid drive, pedal assist only emtb Trek Rail. My buddy rides a class 4, I suppose you could call it 4 because it has a throttle and a top speed of 28mph, hub drive that is more like a fat tire commuter bike. On paved bike paths, other than the top speed, I don't see much of an advantage either way other than he likes the throttle for street crossings. I take that back, his bike feels a little more stable, comfortable and easier to ride than my emtb in this situation. On single track dirt trails, the mid drive is far superior, no contest. The hub drive has way too much inertial mass in the wheel and feels like a dump truck on anything other than a very casual path. This is why you don't see many, if any real emtbs with hub drives typically.

I get it though. I have a Scott Comp full race analog mountain bike that is not comfortable at all to ride for more than maybe 10 miles on a bike path because you are forced into a full attack position at all times. My Trek Rail, although it is a emtb, is a more slack design that meets in the middle with a more upright and comfortable ride but can still get it done on the trails...at least good enough for me. It is more attack than my buddy's commuter but less than my Scott.

 

[Rexlion]

I once tried a mid drive Bafang motor ebike that had a throttle (I think it was a Serfas), but the throttle only worked if I was turning the pedals. I don't know offhand of any other mid drives that will work with a throttle. Throttles are mainly on hub motors.

That brake line should be replaceable with a longer one. My local bike shop offered to put one on my CrossConnect, and I think I will let them do so eventually so I can get my adjustable stem vertical and the handlebar higher. I managed to put a swept-back handlebar on it (after 2 hours of sweating) which helped, but I still would like to sit totally upright. At the moment I'm more like, oh, 75 degrees maybe?

The Yamaha feels like a little sports car. I put Vulpine gravel tires on it. My other ebike, a Ride1Up LMTD, rides more like a luxury sedan. I like both. Which one I ride depends on my mood and where I'm going. For most riding, including reasonably brief hill climbs, either one works fine. Long, steep climbs of, say, a mile or more could be problematic for a hub drive, but hubs handle everything else pretty well.

Honestly, I think maybe you should take a hard look at what Lectric has to offer. They're affordable, they have throttles, and the folding ones will probably have you upright without any mods.

 

[gromike]

I once tried a mid drive Bafang motor ebike that had a throttle (I think it was a Serfas), but the throttle only worked if I was turning the pedals. I don't know offhand of any other mid drives that will work with a throttle. Throttles are mainly on hub motors.

Some mid drives have throttles. I have one (a Bafang BBS02), no pedaling needed. European and Japanese mid drives usually don't because they conform to their jurisdictional regulations. The US is the wild west of ebikes, but we don't build motors or controllers.
It all depends on how the motor controller is built/setup.

 

[DDBB]

My bike has the bafang ultra motor. I couldn't be happier with it. 1,000 watts of power and a throttle that works with or without pedaling. My 1st ebike had a 250 watt Yamaha mid drive and from the day I bought it, I wished it had more power. I no longer wish for more power with the bafang ultra. It will climb anything anywhere, any time at any temp and do so w/o me breaking a sweat. The bike is a Rize RX. I think you can still get them