Specialized Turbo Vado SL: An Incredible E-Bike (User Club)

[stompandgo]

Well designed carbon anything takes advantage of the weave structure, providing rigidity in one dimension while allowing compliance in another. It;s the basis behind all carbon bicycle frames, and trickles down to wheels, stems, handlebars, saddles and saddle rails, etc. The compliance factor dampens vibration and increases comfort.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

Well designed carbon wheels are stronger (relatively) and ride better (subjectively) than equivalent aluminum wheels.

Thanks — all valuable info! Even more reasons to start a lightening project at the wheels. Don't feel a great need for a more comfortable ride right now but wouldn't turn it down.

They are also more aero, so put that into your calculations.

Have no way to quantify the aero watts saved with deeper-section wheels. But with only 320 Wh of battery, the energy saved on longer, faster rides might be significant.

Prefer not to carry a range extender unless absolutely necessary — and so far plenty of main left on rides of up to 42 mi with moderate climbing.

I've been riding carbon wheels for so long now, I won't go back. The aluminum wheels that came with the Pinarello lasted one ride before I knew that I wanted to swap them out. High quality carbon wheels just ride better.

What would you consider a good durable middle-tier carbon wheel upgrade for the SL 1? How deep? (Would want to keep the 1 x 12 SRAM drivetrain as is.)

 

[Stefan Mikes]

The issue with carbon wheels is they have a rather low maximum system weight allowed. These also often come with fewer spokes, all to save their weight.

 

[DaveMatthews]

Not applicable to most here, but...

https://www.bikemag.com/mountain-bike-gear/carbon-vs-alloy-mountain-bike-wheels

 

[Twowheelxtc]

The issue with carbon wheels is they have a rather low maximum system weight allowed. These also often come with fewer spokes, all to save their weight.

They are basic Chinese carbon wheels, nothing special, but they have marketed them to racers. I see a lot of them in the pit.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Not applicable to most here, but...

https://www.bikemag.com/mountain-bike-gear/carbon-vs-alloy-mountain-bike-wheels

This article lists HUNT wheels as renowned.

 

[Twowheelxtc]

This article lists HUNT wheels as renowned.

they have an excellent reputation in UK. I’m not sure country of manufacture equates to quality these days. Many of our big named frames are made in the far east….. to western company design and standards. No doubt that includes our beloved Specialized.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Certainly not! (Unless it is an illegal e-motorcycle)

 

[stompandgo]

This article lists HUNT wheels as renowned.

Maybe to an Gen Z.

 

[stompandgo]

Thanks — all valuable info! Even more reasons to start a lightening project at the wheels. Don't feel a great need for a more comfortable ride right now but wouldn't turn it down.



Have no way to quantify the aero watts saved with deeper-section wheels. But with only 320 Wh of battery, the energy saved on longer, faster rides might be significant.

Prefer not to carry a range extender unless absolutely necessary — and so far plenty of main left on rides of up to 42 mi with moderate climbing.



What would you consider a good durable middle-tier carbon wheel upgrade for the SL 1? How deep? (Would want to keep the 1 x 12 SRAM drivetrain as is.)

What freehub/cassette type does your current SRAM drivetrain use?

Stefan is right about total system weight limitations. Another factor is where you ride them. I put my RX880 Shimano GRX wheels through gnarly mountain bike trail hell last weekend, and they are as straight as they were out of the box. That doesn't mean that I would make a habit of doing this. No way. That kind of abuse will eventually catch up to them. I also ride a lightweight, low power e-bike and I am not a heavy rider. I would never recommend carbon wheels for a high power e-bike and/or a heavy rider.

A lightweight gravel e-bike should have no issues with using well built analog bike carbon gravel wheels on the surfaces that they were designed for, i.e. pavement, gravel, hardpack dirt.

Another benefit of a wheel upgrade is to add rim width. They open up the cross section which can add comfort.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

What freehub/cassette type does your current SRAM drivetrain use?

Thanks! Official specs below if that helps.

Running 38 mm tubeless Spec Pathfinder Pros now — said to be the largest tires possible given my fenders.

Another factor is where you ride them. I put my RX880 Shimano GRX wheels through gnarly mountain bike trail hell last weekend...

No problem — too old for gnarly. But I'd have to rob a bank for those wheels.

A lightweight gravel e-bike should have no issues with using well built analog bike carbon gravel wheels on the surfaces that they were designed for, i.e. pavement, gravel, hardpack dirt.

Perfect. Not a serious project right now but affordable wheels would definitely be the SL's next big upgrade.

 

[BioWheel]

I bought a set of carbon wheels for my SL, mainly for the Vesper hub. I’d like to say I noticed a performance difference, but honestly the biggest thing was just how quiet the hub is.

Fast forward a couple thousand miles, and I’ve probably broken around four spokes—something I’ve never experienced with alloy rims. I do all my own wheel maintenance and have a truing stand and tension tool, but I’ll admit I don’t check spoke tension as often as I should.

I snapped another spoke just last week, so I’m back on my stock wheelset (which I keep ready to go with a cassette already mounted).

The wheels have about 10,000 miles on them now, but from what I’ve seen—even checking with AI—that many broken spokes still seems unusual. I’m considering increasing the tension slightly, from about 2.5 to maybe 3 on my gauge.

That said, when I eventually replace these, I’ll probably go with alloy rims, aero spokes, and stick with the Vesper hub—especially given the extra demands of an e-bike.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

Now that I've priced carbon wheels and read the post-upgrade performance reports from @Twowheelxtc and @BioWheel , I'm rapidly losing enthusiasm for carbon wheels on my SL. Was mainly hoping to improve responsiveness, but given the very high cost, the cost/benefit sounds pretty hard to justify on this bike.

Have yet to need or spring for a range extender, so that's where the next big lump of bike money should go. When I don't mind the extra weight, I'll use it in part to extend the main battery's service life.

 

[Twowheelxtc]

I bought a set of carbon wheels for my SL, mainly for the Vesper hub. I’d like to say I noticed a performance difference, but honestly the biggest thing was just how quiet the hub is.

Fast forward a couple thousand miles, and I’ve probably broken around four spokes—something I’ve never experienced with alloy rims. I do all my own wheel maintenance and have a truing stand and tension tool, but I’ll admit I don’t check spoke tension as often as I should.

I snapped another spoke just last week, so I’m back on my stock wheelset (which I keep ready to go with a cassette already mounted).

The wheels have about 10,000 miles on them now, but from what I’ve seen—even checking with AI—that many broken spokes still seems unusual. I’m considering increasing the tension slightly, from about 2.5 to maybe 3 on my gauge.

That said, when I eventually replace these, I’ll probably go with alloy rims, aero spokes, and stick with the Vesper hub—especially given the extra demands of an e-bike.

I’m sure you know already but Just in case……the times I’ve built tough wheels for loaded touring (never gone out of true after 1000’s miles with camp gear). Lubricate the nipple threads (linseed works well and then dries to prevent loosening). Even tensions and most importantly de stressing then re truing over and over until perfect. Factory wheels likely don’t de-stress.

 

[zbikeman]

@BioWheel, just curious - where did the spokes fail? In the middle, near the hub or near the nipple? My experience is that the location of the failure helps explain what's going on.

If you've never had problems with alloy rims but seem to break spokes with carbon rims, keep in mind alloy will bend/flex but carbon won't. Whatever weight savings or compliance you get from using carbon rims is outweighed by having to replace spokes more frequently because the carbon rim doesn't flex at all compared to the alloy rim which can flex quite a bit and take more stress without issues.

Also, it's very difficult to achieve completely uniform spoke tension across the board when you're building a wheel. The tool you're using can impact results. I found the Wheelsmith tensiometer much more accurate than the Park, for ex. I always found it better to eliminate outliers (say any spoke that's more than 10% different than the others) and concentrate my energy there rather than trying to make them all the same number.

 

[BioWheel]

@BioWheel, just curious - where did the spokes fail? In the middle, near the hub or near the nipple? My experience is that the location of the failure helps explain what's going on.

If you've never had problems with alloy rims but seem to break spokes with carbon rims, keep in mind alloy will bend/flex but carbon won't. Whatever weight savings or compliance you get from using carbon rims is outweighed by having to replace spokes more frequently because the carbon rim doesn't flex at all compared to the alloy rim which can flex quite a bit and take more stress without issues.

Also, it's very difficult to achieve completely uniform spoke tension across the board when you're building a wheel. The tool you're using can impact results. I found the Wheelsmith tensiometer much more accurate than the Park, for ex. I always found it better to eliminate outliers (say any spoke that's more than 10% different than the others) and concentrate my energy there rather than trying to make them all the same number.

Hey Zbike - always breaks at the hub. And I use a tensiometer from Park. Can't really blame the device though as all final adjustments are done by truing the wheel. And typically all the individual tensions are close. But I guess if the meter is wrong then every one of the spokes may need tightened - could be an issue.

I have to say I don't check the tensions enough. If the wheel spins true I don't think about it. Occasionally I might hand check the spoke tightness and then go to the meter if it seems to flex. I have to say I've never done as many miles on a bike as I have my SL. So I'm seeing issues that I'm not used to and am on a learning curve.

 

[zbikeman]

Have you checked the rear hub carefully for signs of fatigue / failure / cracks?

I once had an MTB hub - Shimano Deore DX if memory serves - where I kept blowing through spokes in the rear wheel near the hub. I'm a lightweight, so it wasn't excess weight, hucking the bike, jumping off curbs or anything like that. I think it was on the third or fourth replacement that I decided to take a really close look at the hub.

Sure enough, there's a hairline crack right at the spoke hole that was stressing every spoke threaded through that hole, new or used, and eventually causing complete failure. I dismantled that wheel, threw away the hub (wasn't gonna help anyone now), and told myself to check all components very carefully when going through unusual wear patterns.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

A Kaputt Range Extender?

I experienced the most strange phenomenon on our group ride yesterday. I was riding on the main batter and one of my REs labelled "ENG" (by me). At some ride point, the main battery dropped to 7% but the RE got stuck at 49%: both were reported on Wahoo, so the RE was connected to the Vado SL. As the RE was not delivering any current, the motor got derated. Lucky me I spotted the issue! As soon as I disconnected the RE and turned the e-bike on, the TCU displayed a red LED for the main battery (correct). More. Even if the RE was seen by Wahoo, its green LEDs were gone from the TCU!

The RE might have got broken and protected by BMS against discharging, or it was just a one-time incident. The battery charges normally; a faulty battery would not, and there would be error LEDs on the RE flashing.

As we say in Poland: "Ride. Observe." I will definitely keep my eye on the ENG!
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Just for fun: My three range extenders are labelled:

• CHEMICAL
• ENG(ineer)
• HERO

The fourth RE is unlabelled.
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A Mirrycle on my Fearless broke because of a manufacturing defect. Not buying Mirrycles anymore! (I'm now on my last one).

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Maybe to an Gen Z.

If Sofiane Sehili is Gen Z then maybe.

I asked my community:

• The Hunt wheels are known as a British brand
• Some friends ride them, very happy
• We get Hunt wheels from the UK by a reseller in Germany.

 

[Twowheelxtc]

And they offer a 3 yr warranty! When I ordered my carbon wheels recently I stupidly didn’t see that in error I’d ordered hookless! Return and exchange was effortless and without question. All the riders I know with Hunt have been happy with their purchase and any issues have been quickly rectified. Like any brand they no doubt have their failures…..just look at Specialized motors. It’s how quickly the Brand sorts the problem for the customer that’s important. And I don’t even know what Gen Z is and anyway can’t see how age of rider influences quality of a wheel set.