What have you learned from your e-bike experiences?

Resurrected last year, new financiers & 2 new models, app working again.
Well, it certainly is inexcusable for the bikes to stop working with their website down, if that’s what happened. Jeez.

I read something on the (current) site that you don’t need to run the app (at least with the new bikes?).
 
Well, it certainly is inexcusable for the bikes to stop working with their website down, if that’s what happened. Jeez.

I read something on the (current) site that you don’t need to run the app (at least with the new bikes?).
Oh it was a classic start up collapse. Was surprised they re emerged. Not sure who is running the show & I don't know the nitty gritty of how they are doing.
 
Oh it was a classic start up collapse. Was surprised they re emerged. Not sure who is running the show & I don't know the nitty gritty of how they are doing.
Totally know that story, Ràs… Juiced was around for 15 years before they imploded. Having said that, my bike was not prevented from working. I think that if the bikes became unrideable, that’s a fatally-flawed security system. Unbelievable.
 
Well, it certainly is inexcusable for the bikes to stop working with their website down, if that’s what happened. Jeez.

I read something on the (current) site that you don’t need to run the app (at least with the new bikes?).

no, that's not what happened. the bike does not need the app or the website, at least mine never did. i've had it for close to 5 years and never use the website (not sure what it does other than initial registration?) and only use the app when i use the kicklock because i forgot the button sequence to unlock it otherwise. the app still works fine and has worked fine through the bankruptcy etc. there was also a third party app, not sure if it still works but i know some of the features of it (like changing the speed limit lol) were cut off by later bike firmwares. i haven't touched mine in years.

that said - YES - the founders s*it the bed and a decent number of people got screwed out of deposits. it can be hard to get parts although there are SO many of these bikes out there that it's not all that different from a less proprietary bike with uncommon parts from shimano or sram or microshift after 5-10 years.

there were a number of things about their model, initially, that were REALLY GREAT. the service at our local vanmoof shop was top notch. appointments by mobile app, specific drop off times, fast service, all parts on hand, etc. the built in kick lock is a great feature. the built in lighting is sleek and good enough for city use. the IGH with automatic shifting makes start and stop in the city seamless. the "boost' button is a clever workaround the throttle issue - it's not a throttle because it only works when you're already pedaling. it's basically the equivalent of switching a specialized bike from eco to turbo momentarily, which nobody would accuse of being against the class rules. the displays built into the top tube or now the bars are super sleek compared to the usual barely-masked-third-party screens with a bunch of wires going out of them. compare the number of cables at the front end of a VM to just about any other consumer level e-bike. it's night and day! and the price point was pretty good for all that with an IGH.

however, they made SERIOUS engineering mistakes in the X3/S3 generation that basically doomed them. they had to replace major components of a significant portion of the bikes multiple times (mine included) due to either design or engineering failures in the electronic shifter and possibly other components. doing that under warranty with expensive labor (their biggest service centers were in NYC and SF) at the same time as doing the engineering and tooling for the next generation of bikes. this led to the usual over-leveraging, debt, and the vicious spiral of an overly ambitious startup. many customers got hosed.

i would never buy one again - but if someone else designed and sold a similar bike, i totally would. they're still the most common single type of ebike i see around here, and almost everyone still loves theirs.
 
i'll just reiterate. i see a dozen or more vanmoofs every day, and have ridden mine nearly every day for five years or so, and i've never met or heard of anyone whose bike just "stopped working" because of some issue with the bankruptcy, van moof's servers, the app, anything. it's just a bike with electronics, the same as any e-bike, and it absolutely does NOT need to connect to your phone or the internet or some proprietary network to function as a bike.

i suppose in theory if the app stopped working and you locked it and didn't remember the unlock sequence it might happen? or if you were updating the firmware and that failed during the dark period?
 
i think someday the b-school case study of vanmoof will be pretty much directly laid at the feet of whoever designed this thing and the logic by which it operates, or the production line/process that made it :


shifter.jpg


it's purpose is to rotate the gear selection ring of a totally standard sturmey archer 4 speed IGH. the little motor in it turns the splined ring (shown removed at top left) which shifts the IGH. the bike's controller directs it to change positions based on speed or manual input of the bike's buttons.

i wouldn't be surprised if as many as 25% of these in the initial S3/X3 production cycles failed, and many of the replacements failed, and then failed again. it's not a part that deals with high torque (all it does is turn the selector ring 22.5 degrees at a time, from 0 to 90 on the hub) nor does it see any impact, movement relative to the hub, etc. however, the IGH it's attached to does see load, and while i don't know for sure i imagine the result of the gear selector being in the wrong place at the wrong time under load is not so great for the IGH. the first bike i had just didn't shift out of first after a few rides. replaced and it was fine for a while. then i was bombing down a hill in fourth, probably going 35+ and pedaling hard, and the IGH slipped and never engaged beyond 1st again. others had all kinds of different stories about it failing in various ways, cycling through the gears for no reason, etc. it should never have been designed to shift automatically without some knowledge of load (which becomes tricky with a hub drive, the initial design and maybe the current ones don't have a torque sensor!). i think i also had to have the whole electronics cartridge (they put everything together in one part, including the screen, speaker, switches, controller, etc) replaced once or twice, so there may be a similar story there but it was really the e-shifter and IGH that put them in the huge hole from a consumer perspective.
 
no, that's not what happened. the bike does not need the app or the website, at least mine never did. i've had it for close to 5 years and never use the website (not sure what it does other than initial registration?) and only use the app when i use the kicklock because i forgot the button sequence to unlock it otherwise. the app still works fine and has worked fine through the bankruptcy etc. there was also a third party app, not sure if it still works but i know some of the features of it (like changing the speed limit lol) were cut off by later bike firmwares. i haven't touched mine in years.

that said - YES - the founders s*it the bed and a decent number of people got screwed out of deposits. it can be hard to get parts although there are SO many of these bikes out there that it's not all that different from a less proprietary bike with uncommon parts from shimano or sram or microshift after 5-10 years.

there were a number of things about their model, initially, that were REALLY GREAT. the service at our local vanmoof shop was top notch. appointments by mobile app, specific drop off times, fast service, all parts on hand, etc. the built in kick lock is a great feature. the built in lighting is sleek and good enough for city use. the IGH with automatic shifting makes start and stop in the city seamless. the "boost' button is a clever workaround the throttle issue - it's not a throttle because it only works when you're already pedaling. it's basically the equivalent of switching a specialized bike from eco to turbo momentarily, which nobody would accuse of being against the class rules. the displays built into the top tube or now the bars are super sleek compared to the usual barely-masked-third-party screens with a bunch of wires going out of them. compare the number of cables at the front end of a VM to just about any other consumer level e-bike. it's night and day! and the price point was pretty good for all that with an IGH.

however, they made SERIOUS engineering mistakes in the X3/S3 generation that basically doomed them. they had to replace major components of a significant portion of the bikes multiple times (mine included) due to either design or engineering failures in the electronic shifter and possibly other components. doing that under warranty with expensive labor (their biggest service centers were in NYC and SF) at the same time as doing the engineering and tooling for the next generation of bikes. this led to the usual over-leveraging, debt, and the vicious spiral of an overly ambitious startup. many customers got hosed.

i would never buy one again - but if someone else designed and sold a similar bike, i totally would. they're still the most common single type of ebike i see around here, and almost everyone still loves theirs.
Fascinating hearing all that and really cool to see your work on it!

Did the Belgian Cowboy bikes ever make it to the US? They always seemed a Van Moof rival, but seemed to make more sensible component decisions, less proprietary, used gates drive rather than just slapping a plastic chain guard to hide the chain etc:

 
i'll just reiterate. i see a dozen or more vanmoofs every day, and have ridden mine nearly every day for five years or so, and i've never met or heard of anyone whose bike just "stopped working" because of some issue with the bankruptcy, van moof's servers, the app, anything. it's just a bike with electronics, the same as any e-bike, and it absolutely does NOT need to connect to your phone or the internet or some proprietary network to function as a bike.

i suppose in theory if the app stopped working and you locked it and didn't remember the unlock sequence it might happen? or if you were updating the firmware and that failed during the dark period?
Thanks for clarifying. Obviously, I was just reacting to incorrect information / rumor coming from someone.
 
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