Thoughts Of An Experienced E-Biker

[Robspace1]

This is one of the MANY reasons that the "crotch rocket" lean forward biking position doesn't work for me.

A lot of people will focus on the hand position -- and yes it's important -- but if you feel like you're putting enough pressure on your hands it's worthy of mention, you're likely off balance, leaning too far forward, and aren't young enough to "put up with it" like a lot of folks who advocate for skinny seats and straight bars.

As someone who works in accessibility and ergonomics in the workplace, (and for websites) I'll say it again, this "sporty" lean the f**** forwards "everyone should ride like they're a pro racer" bullshit does more harm than good, and reeks of the same type of snake oil peddling rubbish as those knee-busting "ergonomic" chairs from the '90's or the "standing table" rubbish that's all hot and trendy right now.
Irregardless of how many effete, pretentious, holier than thou snobs and marks get their panties in a knot or "want to puke" over the mere idea of riding upright.

If you've got that much pressure, you're probably also stressing the elbows and shoulder. In fact if you're riding with your arms out straight, you are guaranteed hurting more than just your hands.

Are your arms out straight? Your bars are too far forward.

Pressure on your hands relying on grip instead of light friction with them just resting on the bars? Bars are too far forwards and you're leaning forwards too far.

Are you waking up the next day with pain from the Altas (c1) down to C5? You're leaning too far forward and looking up to see ahead is the cause.

Excessive pain in the coccyx whenever you get off the bike? That's skinny seat and leaning too far forwards at fault. Something I experience first-hand as I'm just not built for those wafer thin narrow seats. Because the whole "sitz bones" thing is a bunch of predatory bull when leaning that far forward, and your weight ends up distributed on the perennial and through the soft tissues straight to the coccyx and sacrum instead! Said "logic" of leaning forwards only working for people 6 foot tall or more with the BMI of an Indian cow or Auschwitz survivor.

And that's another thing to beware of, It's not just the pain while riding, it's the pain caused by riding. You can do a lot of damage with bad posture that doesn't show up until the next morning.

If you are fully extending the legs whilst pedaling, you're risking injury. If you are fully extending the arms whilst riding, you're rising injury. If you have to crank your head back just to see straight ahead, you're risking injury and limiting range of motion. And thus sacrificing situational awareness.

It reminds me of the people who plaster their face 6" from their computer's display with their keyboard way up atop the desk, who then wonder why their eyesight is shot and they have both back problems and carpel tunnel and/or repetitive motion injury... as opposed to a comfortable 3 feet with the keyboard at minimum 5" over your lap, ideally ON your lap.

Basic real anatomy and ergonomics, not the garbage doublespeak market-talk used to peddle cheaper corner cut mass manufacture trash to you! As if it's some miracle cure-all because it's what some sports star uses.

We're not all sports stars. Honestly since I've gotten back into bicycle tech the past two years, the amount of outright gibberish unfounded claims that would/should make any doctor cringe is only rivalled by the likes of Paltrow's "Goop", Oz's hoodoo supplements, or the "healthiness" advice of that dirtbag calling himself an avocado.

Who knew the spandex wearing "cycling life" crowd were as gullible as the fools buying "organic foods", railing against GMO's, making up nonsensical chazerei like "gluten intolerance"? To the point we now have packages of chicken -- CHICKEN -- labelled "gluten free"

Oh wait, the people selling bicycle accessories. They knew. Ah the power of propaganda and arbitrary societal norms.

Well said! There is a whole lot of hype out there about seat type, position on bike, wind resistance, weight etc. That's fine for racing bikes running the Tour de France, but these are ebikes with motors! Not 5 lb. race bikes that require spandex body suits on hard shell micro saddles. Hard on the body. The trend is to make ebikes look like racing bikes with hidden batteries. It's a deception to hide the fact that the rider is really not doing all the work. My battery is big, 1000w, and is clearly seen. I'm very proud to be an ebiker and not a wanna be roadie that never waves, say's hi, and stays bent over the bars with such intensity. Ebikes are for fun imo. My bike and my life are about comfort not competition. For real exercise I use the treadmill. But then, not everyone buys these bikes for relaxation and stress relief. I turn on my mp3 player, turn on the bike power, and going riding for 30 miles along lakes and rivers. Sit straight up, enjoy the comfy front and center suspension, and just cruise along. Never use the throttle. No pain. Nice.

 

[Nomad]

Don't count on them being uncomfortable. Narrow seats keep your thighs from pushing on them. some weight on your hands keeps some weight off your sit bones. if you ride a lot a soft and fat seat will cause its own issues. I ride uptown 250 miles a week I put a lot of effort into peddling. a wide seat kills me in the long run. it all depends on how much effort you put into cycling. it takes time to get used to a narrow seat tis not instant but the rewards are long term and the ability to be hours on it. a bike is not a couch.

If the seat is correctly sized it isn't to narrow but one like he describe is almost always the wrong choice. A saddle that is correct sized to you and made for riding the bike your on along the right bars bike size seat height and more but you probably already new that

 

[Robspace1]

If the seat is correctly sized it isn't to narrow but one like he describe is almost always the wrong choice. A saddle that is correct sized to you and made for riding the bike your on along the right bars bike size seat height and more but you probably already new that

Mine's a Cloud 9. Good support, very comfy, and very well made. Great seat.

 

[fooferdoggie]

Mine's a Cloud 9. Good support, very comfy, and very well made. Great seat.

actually its a cheap seat a good seat going to cost far more.. all that softness will get mushy or hard or just wear out. seats wear out and soft seats wear out even faster.

 

[Nomad]

Mine's a Cloud 9. Good support, very comfy, and very well made. Great seat

Does it come in different sizes?

 

[m@Robertson]

Does it come in different sizes?

There are different models but all are all sized like Grandma's sofa.

actually its a cheap seat a good seat going to cost far more.. all that softness will get mushy or hard or just wear out. seats wear out and soft seats wear out even faster.

Exactly. A heavily padded seat just disguises the problem of poor fitment. They solve nothing. A good seat should fit to your bum. If you pedal, it should be narrower to avoid the chafing of the thighs that come from the pedal stroke on wide seats.

If on the other hand you are just throttling around the neighborhood, that is where a big cruiser seat is in its element. My own personal favorite for that style of neighborhood riding is the Selle Drifter, which is gel-padded and also sprung (and not quite so stupid-looking, but thats a matter of personal taste)..

But if you are cycling, all the crackpot conspiracy rants in the world won't counter decades of experience in what works and what doesn't, learned by people who ride tens of thousands of miles, individually, over and over, across a population of riders that spans literally multiple generations and zillions of individuals. Its not a conspiracy of the illuminati... its people learning what works by doing.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

@FarmerRich:

The cockpit of my Vado SL in early 2022. I have removed the smartphone holder and replaced the Innerbarends 411 with the 410/402 integrated with 710 grips since. The integrated Innerbarends version has turned out to be very wide, occupying more handlebars space.

What helped me for the hand numbness was not only the Innerbarends but also dramatic lowering the handlebars as well as shifting the saddle rearwards. All of this made my riding position really forward. Magically, no butt aches and no hand numbness. I am not sure if that would work for everybody though.

You asked about 36 vs 40t chainring. I would say Specialized put whatever they could on the Tero. Change from 36 to 40T will not reduce your cadence very much. I can bet you could use even a bigger chainring (and a longer chain) on your Tero if you prefer speed vs the climbing capability. (Remember that the Tero originally was a Class 1 e-MTB for 20 mph and off-road mostly).

 

[fooferdoggie]

There are different models but all are all sized like Grandma's sofa.

Exactly. A heavily padded seat just disguises the problem of poor fitment. They solve nothing. A good seat should fit to your bum. If you pedal, it should be narrower to avoid the chafing of the thighs that come from the pedal stroke on wide seats.

If on the other hand you are just throttling around the neighborhood, that is where a big cruiser seat is in its element. My own personal favorite for that style of neighborhood riding is the Selle Drifter, which is gel-padded and also sprung (and not quite so stupid-looking, but thats a matter of personal taste)..

But if you are cycling, all the crackpot conspiracy rants in the world won't counter decades of experience in what works and what doesn't, learned by people who ride tens of thousands of miles, individually, over and over, across a population of riders that spans literally multiple generations and zillions of individuals. Its not a conspiracy of the illuminati... its people learning what works by doing.

I am stuck on a seat thats a gel seal but its still harder then a soft seat. but I need a seat side to side and end to end and thats almost impossible to find. so this works though it can rub my thighs too much. but when I feel like crap it feels hard as a rock. but I got about 14,000 miles oput of it befire it got hard enough to really start hurting my thighs. I found a great sallde but it only works when I am feeling really energetic because its really firm.

 

[Nomad]

There are different models but all are all sized like Grandma's sofa.

Exactly. A heavily padded seat just disguises the problem of poor fitment. They solve nothing. A good seat should fit to your bum. If you pedal, it should be narrower to avoid the chafing of the thighs that come from the pedal stroke on wide seats.

If on the other hand you are just throttling around the neighborhood, that is where a big cruiser seat is in its element. My own personal favorite for that style of neighborhood riding is the Selle Drifter, which is gel-padded and also sprung (and not quite so stupid-looking, but thats a matter of personal taste)..

But if you are cycling, all the crackpot conspiracy rants in the world won't counter decades of experience in what works and what doesn't, learned by people who ride tens of thousands of miles, individually, over and over, across a population of riders that spans literally multiple generations and zillions of individuals. Its not a conspiracy of the illuminati... its people learning what works by doing.

kinda my point to asking about sizes

 

[Robspace1]

actually its a cheap seat a good seat going to cost far more.. all that softness will get mushy or hard or just wear out. seats wear out and soft seats wear out even faster.

Gee doggie, having a bad day or are you always this cheerful? I don't know where you get this stuff from but this seat works great. No chafing, rubbing, grinding or anything but pure comfort. Not soft and cushy or losing a bit of support. Year 3 and it still works just fine. So, now what eh? If you like the setup you have, great. Every body and every bike is different.

 

[Robspace1]

Does it come in different sizes?

Yea they do.

 

[Nomad]

Yea they do.

So, each style of their seats comes in like a small medium or large?

 

[Robspace1]

So, each style of their seats comes in like a small medium or large?

They have many different seat types, shapes and sizes. From the cruiser to the hard, small ones. Check Amazon.

 

[pmcdonald]

I've had a lot more saddle sores from plush padded seats than my hard Brooks. Somewhat counter-intuitive, but for my butt it works. We're in deeply personal territory here What works for one won't necessarily work for another. Raising the seat and dropping the bars solved a lot of my aches. The only advice I'd run a mile from is anything that claims to be universal wisdom. This is the geometry that's working for me at the moment:

 

[Robspace1]

I think the comfort level changes with age. In my 20s that setup would be fine. In my 70s it would kill me. Lol

 

[m@Robertson]

kinda my point to asking about sizes

well I did start out with a pretty good approximation of a 'no'. . But you're right I did not say they do not do sizes in the sense of a seat sized to fit differing anatomies/sit bones. Cloud 9's idea of sizing is saying that the cruiser model is 'sized' at 10.5" x 10.75" in size. I wish I was joking about that but I'm not its straight off the product headline. That should give you an idea of the degree of sophistication involved here in these things.

https://www.amazon.com/Cloud-9-Cruiser-Select-Saddle-10-75/dp/B002MKFRQI?ref_=ast_sto_dp

Visit the Amazon store linked at that page and you will see one after the other all along the same 'saddle-wearing-a-fat-suit' theme. The one exception is the "kush plus" and that looks like a Selle OEM saddle that came with the Sondors emtbs awhile back. It does come in two sizes but the width is the same only the length is altered.

I hesitate to recommend any saddle as they are so personal in nature, but I have had fantastic luck with the Ergon Primes. SMC Core Prime and the newer SMC Core MTB version. If I am pedaling hard like on my Bullitt cargo bike or Apostate mtb I use a medium size, and if I am doing upright riding like on my Surly I'm better off with a Large. Not exactly according to saddle doctrine but I found it works well for me by accident. The padding tech is amazing, but you can get 80% of the benefit for less than half the price with an SFC3 gel. Almost 1/3 the price.

Before that it was the Forte Softail saddles, which were $50 a pop until sadly they were discontinued. I just found one I forgot I had socked away in the garage yesterday.

 

[m@Robertson]

I think the comfort level changes with age. In my 20s that setup would be fine. In my 70s it would kill me. Lol

Tons of people will swear that a broken-in Brooks is the most comfy saddle on the planet. Me I can't stand the things. But they work so well for so many (over something like a century of production) I have to admit I am probably off-base for not fully giving one a chance.

Still... I will take the closed-cell multi-layer Ergons over a strip of rawhide and stay blissfully ignorant.

 

[mschwett]

….

But if you are cycling, all the crackpot conspiracy rants in the world won't counter decades of experience in what works and what doesn't, learned by people who ride tens of thousands of miles, individually, over and over, across a population of riders that spans literally multiple generations and zillions of individuals. Its not a conspiracy of the illuminati... its people learning what works by doing.

exactly this. it is a sad fact of the modern world that the opinions/rants of the uninformed, inexperienced, narrow minded, and unaccomplished can somehow be read on the internet as being as meaningful as millions of hours of actual experience.

is a forward riding position on a narrow saddle right for everyone? of course not. is it the right setup for many types of cycling? absolutely. is it inherently uncomfortable? nope, absolutely not. should you trust people who make blanket statements and find conspiracies around every corner? nope.

 

[mschwett]

Tons of people will swear that a broken-in Brooks is the most comfy saddle on the planet. Me I can't stand the things. But they work so well for so many (over something like a century of production) I have to admit I am probably off-base for not fully giving one a chance.

but Still... I will take the closed-cell multi-layer Ergons over a strip of rawhide and stay blissfully ignorant.

the “brooks on a modern bike” thing kills me. like white wall tires on a tesla or something.

 

[Robspace1]

There is no right or wrong as to the "proper way" to set up a bike. It's all trial and error and no amount of supposed biking expertise or know how can be used to determine the right posture, handlebar type, seat height or amount of seat cushion to ride on. There is no right way to do it. It's whatever is the most comfortable for the rider. And most people will know when the fun stops and the pain begins. I figured it out real fast after buying a mtb. It soon became a very smooth cruiser. Problem solved.