Smart Control or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying (and Love My Vado)

[Stefan Mikes]

Mostly hills and wind. It might be better when using the HBM mode, but since it doesn’t link to my Apple Watch, I haven’t been able to test that.

It works with a proper HR monitor such as Polar OH-1. Again, it is not for me. My regular HR on any ride is 100-115, my medicines take care so the heart-rate is not getting high. Is it the Smart Control or BLEvo, these only increase the assistance in the rare situations my HR goes above 115...

 

[BEC111]

Thanks for the info. Guess Smart Control will stay interesting but not particularly useful for now.

 

[GuruUno]

So today I set Smart Control for the anticipated 42-mile ride.
I set the distance for 45 miles, I set the Remaining Elevation to 875 ft., I put Climb Response to 250 ft., and 25% was used for the remaining battery. Also, set the time for the ride to 5 hrs.
Overall, I was initially paranoid, I packed the battery charger in the trunk bag and started.
5 hours later I returned (3:26 actual ride time, we stopped for lunch, etc.), 42.3 miles logged in Mission Control at end of the ride, and 45% remaining battery.
I'm impressed. Never had to use the charger.
The wind was 2-4 MPH, and there were hills, but overall the entire experience was fun and exhilarating.
I'm of the belief that as long as I can plan my rides to a degree and plug in the proper numbers to Smart Control, I'm going to try to use it more often.
The beauty is the power provided seems to always meet the needs of the terrain.
Oh, the other thing I did was to try to keep my cadence at 80-85 RPM, and coast when possible, but the cadence is the magic ingredient I believe.
Picture of the elevation below

 

[BEC111]

So today I set Smart Control for the anticipated 42-mile ride.
I set the distance for 45 miles, I set the Remaining Elevation to 875 ft., I put Climb Response to 250 ft., and 25% was used for the remaining battery. Also, set the time for the ride to 5 hrs.
Overall, I was initially paranoid, I packed the battery charger in the trunk bag and started.
5 hours later I returned (3:26 actual ride time, we stopped for lunch, etc.), 42.3 miles logged in Mission Control at end of the ride, and 45% remaining battery.
I'm impressed. Never had to use the charger.
The wind was 2-4 MPH, and there were hills, but overall the entire experience was fun and exhilarating.
I'm of the belief that as long as I can plan my rides to a degree and plug in the proper numbers to Smart Control, I'm going to try to use it more often.
The beauty is the power provided seems to always meet the needs of the terrain.
Oh, the other thing I did was to try to keep my cadence at 80-85 RPM, and coast when possible, but the cadence is the magic ingredient I believe.
Picture of the elevation belowView attachment 123883

Very interesting. Thanks for the data.

 

[mogulman]

2022 Turbo Vado SL 5.0. I tried Smart Control on a route I've ridden before. I had it set for 30 miles, elevation 1200ft, climb response 75ft, and 10% left for remaining battery. Smart Control kept shifting some settings automatically, when I was setting it up (mostly battery %). This was a little annoying. I was trying to keep my cadence between 70-80.

I haven mostly been riding at 35/100 for the last week or so since I got my bike.

• I ended up at 20% when I got home rather than 10%.
• Not sure if I liked Smart Control. Sometimes I wish it was helping me more on hills. Sometimes it was helping me too much on flats/downhill.
• Hit some wind on the way back. No way to account for that. I knew that going into it.
• I didn't see any way to tell what kind of assistance was being provided as I ride. I guess I'd like to know that for future non-smart control rides.
• The elevation on my Garmin was about 200 ft more than Mission Control. 1171 vs 980ft
• I could ride this route without any assistance, so hard for me to tell if I liked it or not. I guess I felt like I used more battery than 35/100 mode though.

I guess I'm a little confused. How does something like 35/100 work. It can provide 35% power up to 100% depending on the amount of effort I put in right? How does it determine that? Cadence and gear? or does it use altitude also?

I guess I'm trying to decide if there is an automatic type method that will work for me. I'd like to not change settings that much unless I'm really struggling. I don't know if I really like having my bike connected to my phone the whole time.

 

[mschwett]

2022 Turbo Vado SL 5.0. …:

I guess I'm a little confused. How does something like 35/100 work. It can provide 35% power up to 100% depending on the amount of effort I put in right? How does it determine that? Cadence and gear? or does it use altitude also?

the bike calculates your power input from torque (how hard you’re pushing the pedals) and cadence (how fast the pedals are going around.) these two together equal power, measurable in watts. at “35/100” the bike will respond with a 35% assist ratio, which is multiplied by the bike’s assist factor (2x in the case of the SL bikes ) for a total of 70% power usage. so if your pedaling is providing 100 watts of power, the bike would use 70watts of battery power, resulting in around 63 watts of useful energy. instead of 100 watts at the chain there’s more like 163. the 100 in the 35/100 means the motor output will scale up with your power all the way to the maximum it can consume, which is 300 watts. to get the full power output at 35/100, you’d need to be providing 429 watts of powers. 429 x .35 x 2 = 300, which is the maximum.

what gear the bike is in does not matter, nor does wind or incline or speed (up to 20/28mph), although combinations of those four factors can cause you to have to pedal harder, thus causing more power to be output.

that’s where the second number comes in. a very strong rider will use the battery up FAST on 35/100; pedaling at 430 watts of leg power for an hour would drain the whole thing! 35/50 would double battery life in that far-fetched scenario.

 

[mogulman]

that’s where the second number comes in. a very strong rider will use the battery up FAST on 35/100; pedaling at 430 watts of leg power for an hour would drain the whole thing! 35/50 would double battery life in that far-fetched scenario.

So 35/50, would limit the power output to 150 watts from the motor?

So if I'm riding between 100-200watts of my own power, then at 35/100, the motor is providing 63-126 watts. If I average 100 watts though, then 63 watts from the motor, then 320wh battery should last 320/70=4.5 hours?

 

[mogulman]

Also...let's say during riding, the max wattage I would ever put out is 250w, then I would need to have it at 300/250/2=.6, 60% to get full power from the motor. So something like 60/100 would give me me a range of 120 watts boost-300 watts. Would give me a range of 1-3 hours depending on hard I am riding.

 

[kahn]

2022 Turbo Vado SL 5.0. I tried Smart Control on a route I've ridden before. I had it set for 30 miles, elevation 1200ft, climb response 75ft, and 10% left for remaining battery. Smart Control kept shifting some settings automatically, when I was setting it up (mostly battery %). This was a little annoying. I was trying to keep my cadence between 70-80.

I haven mostly been riding at 35/100 for the last week or so since I got my bike.

• I ended up at 20% when I got home rather than 10%.
• Not sure if I liked Smart Control. Sometimes I wish it was helping me more on hills. Sometimes it was helping me too much on flats/downhill.
• Hit some wind on the way back. No way to account for that. I knew that going into it.
• I didn't see any way to tell what kind of assistance was being provided as I ride. I guess I'd like to know that for future non-smart control rides.
• The elevation on my Garmin was about 200 ft more than Mission Control. 1171 vs 980ft
• I could ride this route without any assistance, so hard for me to tell if I liked it or not. I guess I felt like I used more battery than 35/100 mode though.

I guess I'm a little confused. How does something like 35/100 work. It can provide 35% power up to 100% depending on the amount of effort I put in right? How does it determine that? Cadence and gear? or does it use altitude also?

I guess I'm trying to decide if there is an automatic type method that will work for me. I'd like to not change settings that much unless I'm really struggling. I don't know if I really like having my bike connected to my phone the whole time.

So Train A leaves Station B at the same time Train C leaves Station D. Train A is going 6 miles per hour while Train C is going 12 miles per hour.....

And since I'm about 70 years past both of those trains, none of this calculates anymore!!!!

I wish I could wrap something around these concepts but have to admit - HUH!!!!

 

[GuruUno]

So Train A leaves Station B at the same time Train C leaves Station D. Train A is going 6 miles per hour while Train C is going 12 miles per hour.....

And since I'm about 70 years past both of those trains, none of this calculates anymore!!!!

I wish I could wrap something around these concepts but have to admit - HUH!!!!

It all depends on what you had for dinner the night before and if the moon was 1/2 or full, and if the tide was high or low, then it all makes sense.

 

[mschwett]

Also...let's say during riding, the max wattage I would ever put out is 250w, then I would need to have it at 300/250/2=.6, 60% to get full power from the motor. So something like 60/100 would give me me a range of 120 watts boost-300 watts. Would give me a range of 1-3 hours depending on hard I am riding.

yes, that’s exactly right. at 100/100 it takes in theory 150w of human power to get 300w of battery consumption due to the “2x” multiplier of the SL bikes. output is something less than that (maybe 80%) due to efficiency losses in the motor and the motor’s gearbox.

the full power (non SL) bikes have a much higher multiplier, as high as 4x.

 

[mschwett]

So 35/50, would limit the power output to 150 watts from the motor?

So if I'm riding between 100-200watts of my own power, then at 35/100, the motor is providing 63-126 watts. If I average 100 watts though, then 63 watts from the motor, then 320wh battery should last 320/70=4.5 hours?

yes, except that the value you can easily
observe in mission control or the mastermind is power input to the motor, not output. so the output is around 20% less. peak power input is 300w plus or minus a few watts.

in your second example, battery draw is 70% of your input power, so 70-140 rather than 63-126. output is going to be more like 56-112 due to the approx 80% efficiency of the motor. but basically, yes, you’re right. it’s a very easy way to calculate range… and what you’ll discover is that unless you use the second parameter, pedaling harder reduces your range, because it takes so much more power to go faster. the harder you pedal, the faster you go, which takes exponentially more power, sucking up your battery super fast but only accelerating you a little bit

 

[mogulman]

yes, except that the value you can easily
observe in mission control or the mastermind is power input to the motor, not output. so the output is around 20% less. peak power input is 300w plus or minus a few watts.

in your second example, battery draw is 70% of your input power, so 70-140 rather than 63-126. output is going to be more like 56-112 due to the approx 80% efficiency of the motor. but basically, yes, you’re right. it’s a very easy way to calculate range… and what you’ll discover is that unless you use the second parameter, pedaling harder reduces your range, because it takes so much more power to go faster. the harder you pedal, the faster you go, which takes exponentially more power, sucking up your battery super fast but only accelerating you a little bit

Interesting. So there is no real automatic mode. I guess what I'm looking for is something like smart control, but rather than evaluating the entire ride, can take parameters like torque, cadence, etc and only increase power when I need it going up hills. For me, most of my rides are out and back.

I guess smart control heart rate would be the closest thing? Except that I need my phone connected for that. Otherwise just stick with 35/35, 60/60, 100/100 and microtune. Ah well. Technology isn't quite there yet.

 

[Nubnub]

Although not an option for Mastemind enabled bikes, Blevo's smart power settings would probably do what you want. It features automatic variable assist based on rider power. Parameters are almost infinitely customizable to base assist boost based on rider power, change in rider power etc. Once dialed in, it can automatically adjust assist during accelerations from stop, uphills, stiff winds etc. It is pretty much all I use on my 2020 Vado SL. Nominally set for 19 support/100 peak power - it will boost to equivalent default sport/turbo levels quite easily. Of course it does use more batttery than sticking with just eco set to 19/100.

It has been confirmed in some of the MTB forums and Youtubes that the Mastermind and older VCU's are forward/backward compatible. At one time - you could purchase the older style VCU for < $200.00.

For the SL - my choice would be Blevo vs Mastermind since Microtune would be working with the smaller motor output. 10% steps don't make that much different and once you get to multiples of 10%, might as well just switch assist modes. OTOH, my full power Tero I don't miss Blevo so much since just 20/100 settings provides the same sort of harder I pedal the more assist I get.

 

[BioWheel]

Where is the torque sensor on the SL?

 

[mogulman]

I was thinking about it when I was riding today (you have a lot of time to think while riding). What I would really like is some way of having a constant total output power, no matter how much work I am doing.... Set it for total output power of 200w. I set it for 250w. I ride between 100-200w, it compensates and provides 150-50w, depending on how much power I am providing, rather than 2x what I am doing. I may have issues. I don't want it providing 2x of what I am doing all the time.

Really..I'm thinking hills. on a hill, I want it providing as much power as possible, because I have nerve damage issues with one of my legs. On flats, I don't really care how much assistance it provides. maybe a little, but not critical. Maybe I'll try smart control again,

I did try using Microtune, but I found it annoying to have to change the microtune level along with the gearing. I'd rather just change my gearing to keep my cadence consistant.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Where is the torque sensor on the SL?

Inside the motor.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I set the distance for 45 miles, I set the Remaining Elevation to 875 ft., I put Climb Response to 250 ft., and 25% was used for the remaining battery. Also, set the time for the ride to 5 hrs.

I think you can only either set the Distance or Ride Time criteria. Good SC worked for you!

but the cadence is the magic ingredient I believe.

Specialized once wrote: "The cadence is the King (or Queen)". It was written on somewhat hilarious note but that's true is it a bike or e-bike.

that’s where the second number comes in. a very strong rider will use the battery up FAST on 35/100; pedaling at 430 watts of leg power for an hour would drain the whole thing! 35/50 would double battery life in that far-fetched scenario.

For my weak legs, the SL 35/100 gives about the same battery consumption as SL 55/55. The 35/100 makes my rides very natural and it rewards my effort (a fitness option) while the 55/55 makes me feel stronger.

I guess smart control heart rate would be the closest thing?

Again, not really. I am on blood overpressure medications, preventing my HR going too high. As I hardly ever get my HR over 115, the SC HR mode keeps the assistance constant and only increeases it when my HR exceeds 115.

Smart Control is not an automatic mode. It is just an algorithm to make you complete your distance or allow you ride for specified time or keep your HR in reins and still allow you return with some battery charge left. For me, SC is useful at times but I still think well mastered manual modes are far more predictable.

 

[kahn]

I think you can only either set the Distance or Ride Time criteria. Good SC worked for you!


Specialized once wrote: "The cadence is the King (or Queen)". It was written on somewhat hilarious note but that's true is it a bike or e-bike.


For my weak legs, the SL 35/100 gives about the same battery consumption as SL 55/55. The 35/100 makes my rides very natural and it rewards my effort (a fitness option) while the 55/55 makes me feel stronger.

Again, not really. I am on blood overpressure medications, preventing my HR going too high. As I hardly ever get my HR over 115, the SC HR mode keeps the assistance constant and only increeases it when my HR exceeds 115.

Smart Control is not an automatic mode. It is just an algorithm to make you complete your distance or allow you ride for specified time or keep your HR in reins and still allow you return with some battery charge left. For me, SC is useful at times but I still think well mastered manual modes are far more predictable.

Okay, I have a potential ride coming up (first, I've never tried Smart Control) that is just under 55 miles and about 3,000 feet of elevation gain. Some steeper climbs. The Range Extender (I'm thinking two) will be along. I did the ride last year, a year younger and possibly in better shape and was running on fumes getting home. Oh, aluminum Creo with a heavy rider and a packed pannier!

What thinks the CROWD?

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Okay, I have a potential ride coming up (first, I've never tried Smart Control) that is just under 55 miles and about 3,000 feet of elevation gain. Some steeper climbs. The Range Extender (I'm thinking two) will be along. I did the ride last year, a year younger and possibly in better shape and was running on fumes getting home. Oh, aluminum Creo with a heavy rider and a packed pannier!

What thinks the CROWD?

The SC would only ensure returning with some battery charge left but you might be disappointed with the app performance during the ride: too little assistance when you need the motor help you and too much when you don't need it.
Let me check my stats when I'm back from my current ride. Perhaps I might give some advice (or not!)