Smart Control or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying (and Love My Vado)

[Nubnub]

I've tried out smart control as well. A couple things I don't like and hope there is some setting or workaround to address them.

First, there doesn't seem to be a way to override the smart control. I can turn it off but pressing the remote will only re-enable it.

Secondly and related to the first it doesn't seem to provide the boost when I want it - hence the reason for turning it off. Could be that my phone is not reporting the elevation correctly. I notice there is a caveat in mission control about this. My Rides consistently underreport elevation gain compared to my garmin as well as offline viewing of elevation profiles in google maps. I've set climb response to 0 feet but smart control seems to give too much assist on the flats and not as much as I'd like on steeper grades.

I've been setting ride duration or distance and elevation. The I play around with % battery left setting to adjust what the support level will be. If I go for maximum support (battery left 10%) it gives way too much boost on the flats and not enough on climbs. If i adjust battery left to higher levels to lower the support level indicated on smart control, it stills gives too much boost on the flat and even less (it seems) on the climbs. Again I wonder if it is a problem with my phone - it's a google pixel 3a XL.

I'll probably just get a phone mount and play around with the tuning parameters then stick to manual control

I did notice that smart control was very conservative on remaining battery and I always end up with more than I set it up for. But I think I can do as well with manual remote control as well as shutting off assist if needed.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I've tried out smart control as well. A couple things I don't like and hope there is some setting or workaround to address them.

First, there doesn't seem to be a way to override the smart control. I can turn it off but pressing the remote will only re-enable it.

Secondly and related to the first it doesn't seem to provide the boost when I want it - hence the reason for turning it off. Could be that my phone is not reporting the elevation correctly. I notice there is a caveat in mission control about this. My Rides consistently underreport elevation gain compared to my garmin as well as offline viewing of elevation profiles in google maps. I've set climb response to 0 feet but smart control seems to give too much assist on the flats and not as much as I'd like on steeper grades.

I've been setting ride duration or distance and elevation. The I play around with % battery left setting to adjust what the support level will be. If I go for maximum support (battery left 10%) it gives way too much boost on the flats and not enough on climbs. If i adjust battery left to higher levels to lower the support level indicated on smart control, it stills gives too much boost on the flat and even less (it seems) on the climbs. Again I wonder if it is a problem with my phone - it's a google pixel 3a XL.

I'll probably just get a phone mount and play around with the tuning parameters then stick to manual control

I did notice that smart control was very conservative on remaining battery and I always end up with more than I set it up for. But I think I can do as well with manual remote control as well as shutting off assist if needed.

Your observations must be correct. My rides are in the flatland so I didn't notice the issues with the hills. Indeed, a possibility to override Smart Control would be nice.

 

[jwehman]

Your observations must be correct. My rides are in the flatland so I didn't notice the issues with the hills. Indeed, a possibility to override Smart Control would be nice.

I too have noticed that the hill response is fairly underperforming. My hill response is also set to 0 ft and yet I struggle up my rather steep hills without any seeming boost in assist during the hills. I can override the SC by hitting the turbo mode key (clicking up one on the handlebar control) and that allows me some amount of assist but then SC takes over again after some (seemingly arbitrary) amount of time (10-30 seconds) while still pedaling uphill. This requires me to continuously override until I’m at the top.

 

[BEC111]

So you intended to run the battery down? Is that correct ?

Yes, part of the charm of Smart Control is the ability to automate assist levels to manage battery life. They use a pretty basic algorithm, similar to the solver add-in in Excel (my geek is showing), so I’m not expecting perfection. More testing and sharing of experiences are needed.

I agree that the ability to override the ”control” is an important upgrade.

As I’ve said elsewhere, Specialized needs to realize that their ebikes are computers on two wheels and that they need to act on that understanding.

 

[jwehman]

I just wanted to show a real-world Smart Control-affected ride from today. The settings I used are shown in the picture. Using RidewithGPS I plotted a 25 mile course and saw that it had appx 1700 ft elevation gain. So I used the settings show, and didn't care about the battery left over. I just wanted 10% left if I needed some spare. I am including the data from the "Ride" portion of Mission Control showing that after 22.62 miles (the actual distance) and actual elevation gained of 1666 ft, the battery wh used was 357wh, meaning I used appx 71% of the battery. Avg level of support was 223.51%.

This time I didn't touch any turbo settings...just left them alone, even on the climbs. I just geared down and plodded along where necessary. This ride had some pretty significant climbs, especially at the turn-around point (appx 750ft climb in about 1 mile).

I have to say, I was pleased with the way the computer handled the power settings and changes in support used. I averaged about 20mph for the ride, which is probably about 2x the speed I would normally have hit on my regular bike and I was very comfortable on the ride the whole time.

What a great way to go out, enjoy the scenery (one pic of the hills attached at the turn-around point) and not have to truly "work out" to get this amazing ride in.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I just wanted to show a real-world Smart Control-affected ride from today.

I'm happy to hear Smart Control worked well for you!

 

[jwehman]

The motor doubled your speed???? Wow, that's a big difference. Are you rounding at all? I mean, double is a lot, does anyone else see that much of a difference?

Yeah, you're right. I was taking a swag. Looking back at the same ride from last year, it was 15mph avg vs 20mph, so a 33% increase. Not 100%

 

[Marcela]

Yeah, you're right. I was taking a swag. Looking back at the same ride from last year, it was 15mph avg vs 20mph, so a 33% increase. Not 100%

FEELS like 100%

 

[Stefan Mikes]

My latest experiences with the Smart Control are as follows:

1. SC takes conservative approach regarding the range, preferring lower assistance to increase the battery range
2. In case you exit SC during your ride, the display stats are being reset
3. It looks the manual override of SC works, read below.

ad 1. If I say I want to ride for 60 km (around 40 miles) with 500 m elevation gain (circa 1500 ft) and with 10% battery left, the pedal assistance works in the Eco range. Actual range achieved might easily be 100 km (around 60 miles) if you continue with Smart Control. The good thing SC taught me is I could actually ride for some 40 km at low assistance level (but rather slowly) and then my tired legs ask for more support. Overall, using Smart Control (and switching to higher manual support level past the 40th km) allowed me to ride for the first 70 km on a single battery, while it was some 55 km before I got the lesson.

ad 2. Unluckily, deciding to quit SC resets your stats to zero. Not a good thing if you need to keep your ride stats in the display.

ad 3. In case you need more support (approaching a hill) while riding with the SC, pushing the + button overrides the SC putting you into the Turbo mode. However -- as you people properly noticed -- SC overtakes the control very soon. Just push the + button again (perhaps twice) and the bike stays in Turbo mode until you hit the - button; at that moment SC takes the command over.

Riding with the SC taught me several things: especially how to adjust the Manual modes for my specific needs on the ride. As I need to keep the display stats, I don't use the Smart Control anymore but only manual modes:

• When planning a long ride, especially by bike paths, on the flat, downwind or windless, I am happy with the 35/35% support. It gives me good exercise and increases the battery range significantly
• Past the 40th kilometre, I'm going into the 50/50% Sport mode. The two modes combined make me sure I can ride for 70 km on a single battery
• While riding in a hilly terrain (and possibly upwind at the same time), I set: Eco 50/50, Sport 70/70, Turbo 100/100. Depending on the situation, I choose the mode that makes me comfortable.

My situation is easy because I can always carry a spare battery. The benefit I got from using Smart Control is I can understand how to effectively manipulate the manual assistance modes for better range and less fatigue

 

[Billperry]

This. My brother rode my Vado with power off today and he says it is a normal bike.

Your brother has legs of steel! Or I have spaghetti legs (which is probably the case). Without assist my Como 5.0 requires more work.

 

[rochrunner]

Glad to find this thread. I actually tried Smart Control for the first time today and found that it didn't work exactly as I'd expected, but found the answers here and might give it another try at some point in the future.

 

[GuruUno]

Stefan, after reading this post and referencing another I posted a month or so ago in another thread re: Smart Control, I had said that I was a bit disappointed with Smart Control.
However, you informed me to set the altitude, which I did not the first time I used it, creating the Range Anxiety....
I've not attempted to try Smart Control again but want to tomorrow.
The ride is 22 mi., the elevation is 450 ft., and I want 10% battery remaining. Do I worry about setting "Climb Response" or leave it at zero? Not sure what that is or should be, even after watching the videos.
With those parameters plugged in all I want to do is see what I have left (% of battery) when I am done with the 22 mi. ride so as to eventually compare the same ride with ECO (35/35) and also for an upcoming 45 mi. ride to further test Smart Control this Saturday as another test.
Again, I'll most like will not use Smart Control and just use the manual setting for a comparison test at different times to decide if it's worth fine-tuning the Smart Control function.
As an example, I did a very similar route today for 23.73 miles with some 30MPH wind gusts and 573 ft. elevation, and only a few times went out of ECO to get back up to speed. The bottom line is I returned with 68% battery remaining. I just wonder if I had used Smart Control if it would have been more, as well as possibly easier.

Secondarily, without creating a new thread, I ordered 160mm cranks and will see if that resolves my pedal strikes. As an example, I rolled out my driveway to leave the house today and the pedal struck the apron at the bottom of the driveway as I exited, which I found very odd. Not sure if I fully understand the "Q" factor and other changes that may or may not benefit or be a detriment with different cranks, but will try. Thoughts? Advice?

 

[kahn]

Stefan, after reading this post and referencing another I posted a month or so ago in another thread re: Smart Control, I had said that I was a bit disappointed with Smart Control.
However, you informed me to set the altitude, which I did not the first time I used it, creating the Range Anxiety....
I've not attempted to try Smart Control again but want to tomorrow.
The ride is 22 mi., the elevation is 450 ft., and I want 10% battery remaining. Do I worry about setting "Climb Response" or leave it at zero? Not sure what that is or should be, even after watching the videos.
With those parameters plugged in all I want to do is see what I have left (% of battery) when I am done with the 22 mi. ride so as to eventually compare the same ride with ECO (35/35) and also for an upcoming 45 mi. ride to further test Smart Control this Saturday as another test.
Again, I'll most like will not use Smart Control and just use the manual setting for a comparison test at different times to decide if it's worth fine-tuning the Smart Control function.
As an example, I did a very similar route today for 23.73 miles with some 30MPH wind gusts and 573 ft. elevation, and only a few times went out of ECO to get back up to speed. The bottom line is I returned with 68% battery remaining. I just wonder if I had used Smart Control if it would have been more, as well as possibly easier.

Secondarily, without creating a new thread, I ordered 160mm cranks and will see if that resolves my pedal strikes. As an example, I rolled out my driveway to leave the house today and the pedal struck the apron at the bottom of the driveway as I exited, which I found very odd. Not sure if I fully understand the "Q" factor and other changes that may or may not benefit or be a detriment with different cranks, but will try. Thoughts? Advice?

Q-factor is a width factor:

Q-Factor Explained | 7 Pictures | | Pedal Chile |

Q-Factor or crank width is the distance between the two pedal cranks and is a measure of stance width, which is similar to your walking step-width.

pedalchile.com

 

[mschwett]

...
Secondarily, without creating a new thread, I ordered 160mm cranks and will see if that resolves my pedal strikes. As an example, I rolled out my driveway to leave the house today and the pedal struck the apron at the bottom of the driveway as I exited, which I found very odd. Not sure if I fully understand the "Q" factor and other changes that may or may not benefit or be a detriment with different cranks, but will try. Thoughts? Advice?

at the *bottom* of your driveway? it wouldn't be all that surprising to have a pedal strike if you had a pedal down at the top of a crest - with one wheel over the bend and the other below it, the ground in the middle (where the pedals are) is higher than flat. but the other way around makes no sense at all.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

tefan, after reading this post and referencing another I posted a month or so ago in another thread re: Smart Control, I had said that I was a bit disappointed with Smart Control.
However, you informed me to set the altitude, which I did not the first time I used it, creating the Range Anxiety....
I've not attempted to try Smart Control again but want to tomorrow.
The ride is 22 mi., the elevation is 450 ft., and I want 10% battery remaining. Do I worry about setting "Climb Response" or leave it at zero? Not sure what that is or should be, even after watching the videos.
With those parameters plugged in all I want to do is see what I have left (% of battery) when I am done with the 22 mi. ride so as to eventually compare the same ride with ECO (35/35) and also for an upcoming 45 mi. ride to further test Smart Control this Saturday as another test.
Again, I'll most like will not use Smart Control and just use the manual setting for a comparison test at different times to decide if it's worth fine-tuning the Smart Control function.
As an example, I did a very similar route today for 23.73 miles with some 30MPH wind gusts and 573 ft. elevation, and only a few times went out of ECO to get back up to speed. The bottom line is I returned with 68% battery remaining. I just wonder if I had used Smart Control if it would have been more, as well as possibly easier.

Guru, is your Como equipped with the 710 Wh battery? It is a plenty of juice, and I expect Smart Control would eventually keep you at very high assistance, leaving a lot of battery charge at the end of the ride. You would be disappointed with the SC performance again!

Just to explain the "Climb Response": SC makes use of the barometric altimeter to determine when you have started climbing. The CR value of 0 means "increase assistance as soon as a climb is detected". A higher value means "Increase assistance when a climb for a given value of elevation has been already detected". For a relatively short ride with low elevation gain, it is natural to keep the CR value at 0.

As I say, 22 miles and 450 ft is not very much as for the potential of the large battery Como. Let me give you some practical examples from my rides. Note: For practical reasons, I will use the battery consumption factor of Wh/km (Wh/mi). (Your 710 Wh battery has the usable charge of 675 Wh, or 95% of 710).

• Assistance 35/35%: 5.3 Wh/km (8.5 Wh/mi). Your range: 79 miles.
• Assistance 50/50% (the worst scenario): 8.8 Wh/km (14.2 Wh/mi). Your range: 47.5 miles.
• Assistance: 100/100%: 12.60 Wh/km (20.3 Wh/mi). Your range: 33 miles.

The Max Motor Power % always set equal to the Assistance % . It is notable how much the Range can increase at Assistance/Power % less than 50%. It is due to lower travelling speed (less air drag). Note: The total elevation gain in the considerations has never exceeded 900 ft.

Your Mastermind TCD-w will give you a plenty of information such as the remaining Range, Range Trend, Wh/mi (perhaps?) etc. I'm not a great fan of Smart Control anymore. I use it sporadically, in unexpected situations. For example, I set off for a simple, relatively short ride once, with 60% of the SL battery, and a single SL Range Extender. Then, it turned out, "a call of duty" (a family emergency situation) forced me to do a far longer ride than expected, and that was on a day of strong winds. Smart Control helped me surviving on that day. (Generally, I do not use the Smart Control anymore).

 

[GuruUno]

Unfortunately, I had a tire deflation issue today and was not able to complete the test.
However, I can say that the first 10-12 miles were 'super-charged' in the "Smart Control" setting.
After getting a new tube, and fixing the flat, my 160mm cranks came, and the new kickstand.
Put them on, testing in the next few days.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I can say that the first 10-12 miles were 'super-charged' in the "Smart Control" setting.

Make an experiment, please. Set the "Battery remaining at the end of the ride" to something like 60 or 70%. My calculation tells me you should be assisted "normally" on your 22 mile ride by the Smart Control with such a setting.

 

[rochrunner]

Make an experiment, please. Set the "Battery remaining at the end of the ride" to something like 60 or 70%. My calculation tells me you should be assisted "normally" on your 22 mile ride by the Smart Control with such a setting.

That's one reason I haven't used Smart Control. You're basically saying "give me as much assist as possible without depleting the battery below X%". A short ride that uses 90% of a full charge would certainly be exciting!

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Smart Control may make some sense for medium to long range rides on a single battery. The problem is it is typically gives you too little of the assist in the beginning and too much near to the end of the ride, and it never meets your needs as good as the manual assistance control.

Perhaps the SC is more valuable for SL e-bikes where the main battery is smallish, the motor power is low, and the battery power demand very strongly depends on the current assistance level (from very long range for low assistance to very short one for high assistance setting).

 

[BEC111]

Smart Control may make some sense for medium to long range rides on a single battery. The problem is it is typically gives you too little of the assist in the beginning and too much near to the end of the ride, and it never meets your needs as good as the manual assistance control.

Perhaps the SC is more valuable for SL e-bikes where the main battery is smallish, the motor power is low, and the battery power demand very strongly depends on the current assistance level (from very long range for low assistance to very short one for high assistance setting).

I agree. It’s a fun feature, but the assist levels are often inappropriate for the riding conditions. Mostly hills and wind. It might be better when using the HBM mode, but since it doesn’t link to my Apple Watch, I haven’t been able to test that. FWIW, the similar functionality in BLEvo is no better.

I did find it helpful, as you did, when I was low on battery and needed to get home.

So, it’s good to know it’s available, but it isn’t worthwhile for everyday riding. Perhaps on the newer Mastermind bikes with an improved algorithm it would be a better tool?