Mystery solved

[SLONomad]

I have been tweaking/riding/tweaking the AM100 for several weeks now and was always mystified by its underwhelming performance on hills and its inability to attain the advertised 28 mph speed. Today I realized what might be the reason. Riding with the screen set to display the amp hours being delivered to the motor, I noticed that regardless of the Power Level setting, the maximum PAS boost was 6.0 Ah. On the other hand, using throttle alone, the battery delivered up to 15 Ah. Unfortunately, the throttle does not operate when pedaling, otherwise, you could get the best of both worlds... maximum boost on top of pedal power. So, my question to the forum: is anyone aware of a personalization setting that can increase the Ah limit while pedaling? I'll also ask tech support.

As to the reduced maximum speed, it is simply a matter of the power boost going from the maximum (6.0 Ah) to zero when the speed reaches 24 to 25 mph. It would seem logical that this should be able to be reprogrammed in the Speed Limit setting, which allows a max setting of 50 km/h (31 mph), but the controller manual says the upper limit is 40 km/h (24.8 mph), so I guess that is as good as it gets.

Note that the AM100 controller is the YL80C, the same as used on many of the other eAhora models.

 

[zzRider]

I have been tweaking/riding/tweaking the AM100 for several weeks now and was always mystified by its underwhelming performance on hills and its inability to attain the advertised 28 mph speed. Today I realized what might be the reason. Riding with the screen set to display the amp hours being delivered to the motor, I noticed that regardless of the Power Level setting, the maximum PAS boost was 6.0 Ah. On the other hand, using throttle alone, the battery delivered up to 15 Ah. Unfortunately, the throttle does not operate when pedaling, otherwise, you could get the best of both worlds... maximum boost on top of pedal power. So, my question to the forum: is anyone aware of a personalization setting that can increase the Ah limit while pedaling? I'll also ask tech support.

As to the reduced maximum speed, it is simply a matter of the power boost going from the maximum (6.0 Ah) to zero when the speed reaches 24 to 25 mph. It would seem logical that this should be able to be reprogrammed in the Speed Limit setting, which allows a max setting of 50 km/h (31 mph), but the controller manual says the upper limit is 40 km/h (24.8 mph), so I guess that is as good as it gets.

Note that the AM100 controller is the YL80C, the same as used on many of the other eAhora models.

 

[zzRider]

"It would seem logical that this should be able to be reprogrammed in the Speed Limit setting, which allows a max setting of 50 km/h (31 mph), but the controller manual says the upper limit is 40 km/h (24.8 mph), so I guess that is as good as it gets."
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Is there a separate manual for the controller vs. the YL80C display manual? If so, can you post it? Thanks.

 

[SLONomad]

"It would seem logical that this should be able to be reprogrammed in the Speed Limit setting, which allows a max setting of 50 km/h (31 mph), but the controller manual says the upper limit is 40 km/h (24.8 mph), so I guess that is as good as it gets."
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Is there a separate manual for the controller vs. the YL80C display manual? If so, can you post it? Thanks.

No, I am using "display manual" and "controller manual" to mean the same thing.

 

[Litser]

Same problem here. Have you found any answer about a way to increase Ah while pedaling?

 

[SLONomad]

Same problem here. Have you found any answer about a way to increase Ah while pedaling?

No. I haven't heard back from them on it either. I'll email them again.

 

[Litser]

If the motor nominal power is 350 Watts, at 48 volt that means that the max amps without overheating should be 7.3 amp. Even 500 watt momentary bust should not overpass 10.4 amp.
That is probably why they limit the PAS. What I don’t understand is why they let the throttle use up to 15 amps, and I wander if using Continuous throttle at full will cause motor damage.

 

[SLONomad]

If the motor nominal power is 350 Watts, at 48 volt that means that the max amps without overheating should be 7.3 amp. Even 500 watt momentary bust should not overpass 10.4 amp.
That is probably why they limit the PAS. What I don’t understand is why they let the throttle use up to 15 amps, and I wander if using Continuous throttle at full will cause motor damage.

Thanks for the explanation. This is what I heard from them:

PAS mode is designed to save the battery power, that is why you can
see only 6 amps under this mode.
When using the throttle and start pedaling, the PAS mode will start
automatically.
Please notice AM100 is equipped with 350W motor, which can't be adjusted.
Thank you.

"Designed to save the battery power" is what bugs me. I need that extra power when going up a hill, dammit! If they were really interested in saving battery power, they would limit the amps in throttle mode, too, or allow pedaling while the throttle is working.

 

[zzRider]

Thanks for the explanation. This is what I heard from them:

PAS mode is designed to save the battery power, that is why you can
see only 6 amps under this mode.
When using the throttle and start pedaling, the PAS mode will start
automatically.
Please notice AM100 is equipped with 350W motor, which can't be adjusted.
Thank you.

"Designed to save the battery power" is what bugs me. I need that extra power when going up a hill, dammit! If they were really interested in saving battery power, they would limit the amps in throttle mode, too, or allow pedaling while the throttle is working.

My XC100 had 15amp configured when I received it. I bumped up this "Cur" setting to 22.5 (max is 25ah). I rarely use sustained max throttle only and when I do it's not for more than 5 minutes.

There is a 48v/14ah battery available on the eAhora website if you want to replace your 10.4ah. This would definitely give you more range but not necessarily more power/speed.

Note the replacement/upgrade battery is listed as LG brand cells, whereas my XC100 was advertised as Samsung brand cells (have not verified what I actually have, however--never removed the battery since I first put it on the bike when I assembled it).

ACE / XC300 Battery Pack

PACKAGE INCLUDED: 1 x Bike Battery SHIPPING DETAILS ABOUT BATTERIES: Battery production time: 3-5 Days Delivery time: 15-20 Days Pre-sale battery production time: 15-20 Days Free shipping SPECIFICS SX stands for Samsung Battery Battery Warranty: 1 Year. Recharge Cycles: about 1000 times...

www.eahoraebike.com

 

[kmccune]

Thanks for the explanation. This is what I heard from them:

PAS mode is designed to save the battery power, that is why you can
see only 6 amps under this mode.
When using the throttle and start pedaling, the PAS mode will start
automatically.
Please notice AM100 is equipped with 350W motor, which can't be adjusted.
Thank you.

"Designed to save the battery power" is what bugs me. I need that extra power when going up a hill, dammit! If they were really interested in saving battery power, they would limit the amps in throttle mode, too, or allow pedaling while the throttle is working.

Thats a challenge, the Elephant in the room is legality and liability, I changed the freewheel on my cruiser and 30+ is easily attained now( trouble is on a bike this scares me, can imagine what a collision with a whitetail deer at 30+ is going to be like.)
I like Eahoras lineup we all cannot afford $3000+ Ebikes.

 

[SLONomad]

If the motor nominal power is 350 Watts, at 48 volt that means that the max amps without overheating should be 7.3 amp. Even 500 watt momentary bust should not overpass 10.4 amp.
That is probably why they limit the PAS. What I don’t understand is why they let the throttle use up to 15 amps, and I wander if using Continuous throttle at full will cause motor damage.

"I wonder if it will cause motor damage". I may find out. I bought an extended warranty. If I am lucky, it will burn out and they will replace it with a better motor.

 

[hroosa]

Thanks for the explanation. This is what I heard from them:

PAS mode is designed to save the battery power, that is why you can
see only 6 amps under this mode.
When using the throttle and start pedaling, the PAS mode will start
automatically.
Please notice AM100 is equipped with 350W motor, which can't be adjusted.
Thank you.

"Designed to save the battery power" is what bugs me. I need that extra power when going up a hill, dammit! If they were really interested in saving battery power, they would limit the amps in throttle mode, too, or allow pedaling while the throttle is working.

To SLONomad and zzRider (and to any other AM100 owners) frustrated by the 6 amp limit that Eahora has imposed...
I am a new member, but have been following your posts after I received my bike in September. I too was not impressed by my bikes inability to climb hills, as it's pretty hilly where we live. Then, we purchased a Ride1Up 700 series for my wife. Wow; what a difference! Granted, it has a bigger motor, but it obviously was not similarly restricted in PAS mode. I contacted Eahora customer service, and though they have been responsive, I was told the same story (safety, etc.).
I tried changing settings that they recommended, but nothing improved. I contacted them again, and pleaded my case. They offered to send me a re-programmed controller (at a discount), which would deliver 18 amps, both on throttle and PAS. It took only a week to get, and after installing it yesterday, it actually works!! I haven't had time to sort out (fine tune) the settings, but can safely say that the bike is much, much better. If any of you need further detail,
I'd be happy to share. This would be the way the bike should be sold!

 

[kmccune]

To SLONomad and zzRider (and to any other AM100 owners) frustrated by the 6 amp limit that Eahora has imposed...
I am a new member, but have been following your posts after I received my bike in September. I too was not impressed by my bikes inability to climb hills, as it's pretty hilly where we live. Then, we purchased a Ride1Up 700 series for my wife. Wow; what a difference! Granted, it has a bigger motor, but it obviously was not similarly restricted in PAS mode. I contacted Eahora customer service, and though they have been responsive, I was told the same story (safety, etc.).
I tried changing settings that they recommended, but nothing improved. I contacted them again, and pleaded my case. They offered to send me a re-programmed controller (at a discount), which would deliver 18 amps, both on throttle and PAS. It took only a week to get, and after installing it yesterday, it actually works!! I haven't had time to sort out (fine tune) the settings, but can safely say that the bike is much, much better. If any of you need further detail,
I'd be happy to share. This would be the way the bike should be sold!

What is the part No? I have a motor 36-48 volt(750-1000 watt output) would be tempted to change the wheel and controller, if everything would hookup,I would be tempted. The thing is I expected to have to pedal, my bike is due tomorrow.I will see how happy I am with the low output stock.
I will try to keep you posted.

 

[SLONomad]

What is the part No? I have a motor 36-48 volt(750-1000 watt output) would be tempted to change the wheel and controller, if everything would hookup,I would be tempted. The thing is I expected to have to pedal, my bike is due tomorrow.I will see how happy I am with the low output stock.
I will try to keep you posted.

To SLONomad and zzRider (and to any other AM100 owners) frustrated by the 6 amp limit that Eahora has imposed...
I am a new member, but have been following your posts after I received my bike in September. I too was not impressed by my bikes inability to climb hills, as it's pretty hilly where we live. Then, we purchased a Ride1Up 700 series for my wife. Wow; what a difference! Granted, it has a bigger motor, but it obviously was not similarly restricted in PAS mode. I contacted Eahora customer service, and though they have been responsive, I was told the same story (safety, etc.).
I tried changing settings that they recommended, but nothing improved. I contacted them again, and pleaded my case. They offered to send me a re-programmed controller (at a discount), which would deliver 18 amps, both on throttle and PAS. It took only a week to get, and after installing it yesterday, it actually works!! I haven't had time to sort out (fine tune) the settings, but can safely say that the bike is much, much better. If any of you need further detail,
I'd be happy to share. This would be the way the bike should be sold!

Congrats on your persistence. How much do they want for the new controller? I already spent $100 to change the chainring from the stock 52 tooth ring to a 44. It greatly improved hill climbing ability, but it would be nice to have the motor helping more, too.

 

[Litser]

To SLONomad and zzRider (and to any other AM100 owners) frustrated by the 6 amp limit that Eahora has imposed...
I am a new member, but have been following your posts after I received my bike in September. I too was not impressed by my bikes inability to climb hills, as it's pretty hilly where we live. Then, we purchased a Ride1Up 700 series for my wife. Wow; what a difference! Granted, it has a bigger motor, but it obviously was not similarly restricted in PAS mode. I contacted Eahora customer service, and though they have been responsive, I was told the same story (safety, etc.).
I tried changing settings that they recommended, but nothing improved. I contacted them again, and pleaded my case. They offered to send me a re-programmed controller (at a discount), which would deliver 18 amps, both on throttle and PAS. It took only a week to get, and after installing it yesterday, it actually works!! I haven't had time to sort out (fine tune) the settings, but can safely say that the bike is much, much better. If any of you need further detail,
I'd be happy to share. This would be the way the bike should be sold!

Excellent! Please give me the info so I can buy the controller you have!

 

[Sierratim]

Note that the discharge rate (C) of the battery pack impacts both its available capacity and lifetime;

In this example doubling the discharge rate from 1C to 2C drops the available cell capacity by 21%.

Doubling the discharge rate from 1C to 2C also decreases the useful battery life to ~450 charge cycles at 2C, ~30% less than the 1C cells. For comparison, 75% of original capacity is defined as end of useful life.

Data from batteryuniversity.com

Bottom line, drawing more power from the battery pack with a re-programmed controller will improve climbing performance at the expense of battery capacity and life. How much of an impact depends on the battery capacity and its original and re-programmed power demand. For example, going from a 6A limit to 18A will have a noiceable impact on a 10Ah rated battery pack.

This can be avoided by going with a higher capacity battery pack at the same time. Kind of like a 'you can pay now or pay later' scenario. Just sayin'

 

[SLONomad]

Note that the discharge rate (C) of the battery pack impacts both its available capacity and lifetime;

View attachment 73164
In this example doubling the discharge rate from 1C to 2C drops the available cell capacity by 21%.

View attachment 73165
Doubling the discharge rate from 1C to 2C also decreases the useful battery life to ~450 charge cycles at 2C, ~30% less than the 1C cells. For comparison, 75% of original capacity is defined as end of useful life.

Data from batteryuniversity.com

Bottom line, drawing more power from the battery pack with a re-programmed controller will improve climbing performance at the expense of battery capacity and life. How much of an impact depends on the battery capacity and its original and re-programmed power demand. For example, going from a 6A limit to 18A will have a noiceable impact on a 10Ah rated battery pack.

This can be avoided by going with a higher capacity battery pack at the same time. Kind of like a 'you can pay now or pay later' scenario. Just sayin'

I think I'll stick with my 44 tooth chainring and longer battery life.

 

[hroosa]

Congrats on your persistence. How much do they want for the new controller? I already spent $100 to change the chainring from the stock 52 tooth ring to a 44. It greatly improved hill climbing ability, but it would be nice to have the motor helping more, too.

I have been working with a customer service rep named "Lola" at Eahora. This is from the email sent offering the new controller:

Replacement Parts For Eahora Model × 1 XC100/AM100 Controller $78.99​

Discount -$38.99​ Subtotal $40.00​ Shipping $0.00​ Taxes $0.00​ Total $40.00 USD​ You saved $38.99​ There is no specific part number for the new controller; both units are identical. Note that the tag says "M5 Display". My bike originally was manufactured with an M5 display. They sent me the YL80C controller at no charge, when I complained that I was unable to save changes I made to some settings. Everything seems to work fine with the YL80C display installed with the new controller. Good luck!

 

[hroosa]

I think I'll stick with my 44 tooth chainring and longer battery life.

This is an interesting comment regarding battery life. As I mentioned originally, I have not had much time yet with the new controller installed. (Probably won't be riding as much during cold months, either...). On the limited test ride, I did see the display peaking to around 18 amps on the steepest hill, but it was not always near that high on less steep ones. On level ground, it seemed about the same as before. I'll keep y'all posted.

 

[SLONomad]

This is an interesting comment regarding battery life. As I mentioned originally, I have not had much time yet with the new controller installed. (Probably won't be riding as much during cold months, either...). On the limited test ride, I did see the display peaking to around 18 amps on the steepest hill, but it was not always near that high on less steep ones. On level ground, it seemed about the same as before. I'll keep y'all posted.

Where does that fit in the bike? I assume it is inside the down tube. Is that easily accessible?