25km/h? 32? 45? 60? What speed do you *actually* want on your e-bike?

[glenmorenee]

If I had it to do all over again I would have opted for a 28mph bike. My bike is a 20mph bike and for 90% of my riding, that is just fine. But there are brief times where there is an open stretch and I want to get ahead/away from the traffic, I find that a good cruising speed for me is in the low 20's. So a 28mph bike would be the most versatile for me.

 

[Mass Deduction]

I reckon you’re right. At over 45kph you’ll need eye protection (goggles). Wind drag becomes a limiting factor even with high tyre pressure. However if you’re riding at 45kph with a tailwind and thus reduced wind resistance add the wind speed to your bike speed and you’ll get well above 55kph (20kph tailwind) for the same energy input. Simples.
Be careful though; it hurts when you hit the ground.

I wear eye protection on every bike ride, but I don't wear goggles. I've gone as fast as 75 km/h on my muscle bike going down a steep hill, wearing only sunglasses as protection.

These days I use a Bell Star Pro helmet which has an integrated face shield, though. That's a winner, for me.

 

[Mass Deduction]

Thx, that was for Mass, he started the thread ,wondering what bike he is configuring for speed

I'm currently riding a Felt Sport-E. I switched to it because it has a STePS E8000 motor. That motor, and that motor alone that I am aware of, allows tuning both the level of assist and the top speed individually for each level of assist.

Once I learned about that, I swapped to a bike that had that. The first thing I did was make low and medium assist more powerful, so that I wouldn't ride in high assist as often. Then I started tweaking the top speeds, some up, some down. It'll void your warranty, etc., etc., just as you'd expect.

 

[Mass Deduction]

I would be very happy if the European pedal-assistance speed limit were risen to 32 km/h. I actually do not need anything more. My Czech rear-hub-motor e-bike allows removing the restriction. Given the power of the motor, I rarely even reach 32 km/h on that bike and am happy, actually riding slower than that. With 25 km/h restriction the bike becomes sluggish and slow but already good battery range is further extended.

The major reason for which I bought Vado 5 was to avoid the severe European PAS restriction. As a consequence, I had to register and insure the bike and I am not allowed to use bike lanes with the speed bike. I understand that completely. Given all the facts, I would be happy with a "regular" e-bike if it had the Canadian restriction of 32 km/h.

It's possible to switch many e-bikes from 25 km/h to 32 km/h. Many times the same motor is sold in Europe and in North America, and they have a setting in the motor that they set to one or the other at the factory. So the trick is to hunt down software that will change this setting for you after the fact, though understand that using unlicenced software is always a warranty risk. Not all motors have this available, so research is required.

 

[FlatSix911]

It's possible to switch many e-bikes from 25 km/h to 32 km/h. Many times the same motor is sold in Europe and in North America, and they have a setting in the motor that they set to one or the other at the factory.

So the trick is to hunt down software that will change this setting for you after the fact, though understand that using unlicensed software is always a warranty risk. Not all motors have this available, so research is required.

Can you share what software you have found with other EBR members ...

 

[E-Wheels]

I'm currently riding a Felt Sport-E. I switched to it because it has a STePS E8000 motor. That motor, and that motor alone that I am aware of, allows tuning both the level of assist and the top speed individually for each level of assist.

Once I learned about that, I swapped to a bike that had that. The first thing I did was make low and medium assist more powerful, so that I wouldn't ride in high assist as often. Then I started tweaking the top speeds, some up, some down. It'll void your warranty, etc., etc., just as you'd expect.

Hi MD,
What Shimano display do you have to allow re programming. Do you know if you can reprogram using the the SC-E6010 display

 

[erider_61]

Canadians are never in a rush to get anywhere or do anything so I'm sure 32kph is fine for them. I just think that is too slow for a real transportation solution....why not walk if that's all the faster an ebike is legally allowed to assist to.

LOL..My regular commute on my Voltbike Bravo involves speeds in the range of 35-40 kph. And the Merkava I am looking to buy next can do 95 kph. Obviously you have no clue really what speed some Canadians wish to travel...

 

[Stefan Mikes]

It's possible to switch many e-bikes from 25 km/h to 32 km/h. Many times the same motor is sold in Europe and in North America, and they have a setting in the motor that they set to one or the other at the factory. So the trick is to hunt down software that will change this setting for you after the fact, though understand that using unlicenced software is always a warranty risk. Not all motors have this available, so research is required.

I don't think I would like to void a warranty on an R&M e-bike

 

[batmick1]

I want to go without any limitations, according to how I feel on my commute. I hate the artificial cutoff of support at some arbitrary speed, so I chipped my bike from the moment I got it. This is for pedal assist-only, because I can reach the same speeds I get on my e-commuter on my road and tri-bikes, I just have to work harder for it.
Different story (imho) for throttle driven bikes. I see those more as actual mopeds and understand the need for some sort of restriction.

 

[Ken M]

Obviously one of the huge benefits of being able to ride an ebike (regardless of the top assist speed) is that you don't have to pay for license and registration fees (DMV pensions per say) or insurance (executive bonuses per say).

Ebikes really can't completely replace a car for most people, so if an ebike is classified as a moped/motorcycle requiring a bunch of extra expenses then the chances of them being widely adopted for urban mobility (getting some people out of cars some of the time) is much lower.

I simply feel we need effective and efficient urban mobility more than we need new revenue streams for DMV and insurance companies and I don't think 32kph / 20mph assist limits enable effective mobility for many people. I'm not wanting ebikes to have motorcycle like speeds but when there is a human that rode a bike for 1 hour averaging over 30mph there is ZERO merit to limiting assist speeds to 32kph class 1 or even 45kph class 3. There is no way someone can know if the rider is enabling the bike to go faster than the assist speed limit or if the assist has been "unlocked" to go faster.

Put the speeds limits on the various paths that ebikes will be used on just like we do with cars right now. Every time I post this opinion I get attacked by the mamby-pambies saying anything over 32kph / 20mph is too fast to be safe (if they don't feel safe going faster then don't....I went over 20mph on my Schwinn banana seat Stingray bike when I was 10 so I just don't see speed the same way they do).

 

[Mass Deduction]

[...]
Put the speeds limits on the various paths that ebikes will be used on just like we do with cars right now. Every time I post this opinion I get attacked by the mamby-pambies saying anything over 32kph / 20mph is too fast to be safe (if they don't feel safe going faster then don't....I went over 20mph on my Schwinn banana seat Stingray bike when I was 10 so I just don't see speed the same way they do).

I partly agree with you. It would be nice if the limits were put on the bike lanes and bike paths rather than on the bicycles, just like with cars. No one says you can't sell a car that can go 300 km/h, even though you're supposed to drive it slower than that most places.

The difference I would point to is the lack of licence, registration, and proof operator education about the rules of the road, understanding signage, etc. There's also less enforcement of e-bike speeds than there is car speeds. So with cars, the drivers are more tightly regulated. With e-bikes, the bikes are more tightly regulated. So there's a balance there, IMO.

You argue against regulating the bikes, and you argue against regulating the cyclists. That's probably not something we could sell to regulators.

Also, e-bikes could benefit from selectable modes. A highway mode, a city street mode, and a bike path mode (all with different top speeds and levels of assist) could help convince regulators to open things up for us perhaps.

 

[Ken M]

I partly agree with you. It would be nice if the limits were put on the bike lanes and bike paths rather than on the bicycles, just like with cars. No one says you can't sell a car that can go 300 km/h, even though you're supposed to drive it slower than that most places.

The difference I would point to is the lack of licence, registration, and proof operator education about the rules of the road, understanding signage, etc. There's also less enforcement of e-bike speeds than there is car speeds. So with cars, the drivers are more tightly regulated. With e-bikes, the bikes are more tightly regulated. So there's a balance there, IMO.

You argue against regulating the bikes, and you argue against regulating the cyclists. That's probably not something we could sell to regulators.

Also, e-bikes could benefit from selectable modes. A highway mode, a city street mode, and a bike path mode (all with different top speeds and levels of assist) could help convince regulators to open things up for us perhaps.

The ebike manufacturers are not likely to create special programming for the small US market - they want to sell the same models world wide for best economies of scale.

For those like Bafang that are making mid drive and hub drive motors that are good for the US market they will gain market share.

 

[Readytoride]

So my question to all of you is, what top speed do you all really want? 26 mph
Any of you with 25 of 32 km/h bikes that long for a little more? YES

 

[Mass Deduction]

The ebike manufacturers are not likely to create special programming for the small US market - they want to sell the same models world wide for best economies of scale.

For those like Bafang that are making mid drive and hub drive motors that are good for the US market they will gain market share.

Many times they sell the same motor limited to 25 KM/h in Europe and 32 KM/h in North America. People have discovered that most (all?) of Shimano's motors sold in Europe have a setting that lets them be switched to 32 KM/h, for example. Same motor, different settings.

The Shimano E8000 motor had settings that let it be set to any speed you want from 25 to 60 km/h, individually for each level of assist. That's not a hack, the settings are there in the motor already and just need to be set. Sadly, only unauthorized software can re-set it for the user.

They have specialized software (or at least specialized settings) in different markets already, so it's not impossible. But the big players have not shown a lot of interest in it, sadly.

 

[Cyklefanatic]

I am limited to 31kph in Canada, 40 would save a lot of commute time

 

[Toomanycats]

I reckon you’re right. At over 45kph you’ll need eye protection (goggles). Wind drag becomes a limiting factor even with high tyre pressure. However if you’re riding at 45kph with a tailwind and thus reduced wind resistance add the wind speed to your bike speed and you’ll get well above 55kph (20kph tailwind) for the same energy input. Simples.
Be careful though; it hurts when you hit the ground.

Personally, I’d be a little concerned about approaching those kind of speeds w/o a full face style helmet. Facial reconstruction and dental implants are painful and expensive.
I’ve gradually upped my speed over the last year, but I draw the line at 30 mph, (downhill, no traffic) just because I’m older, my bones don’t heal as fast as they used to, and my bike handling skills aren’t that advanced.
It is a thrill flying downhill that quickly, though. I can see the attraction.

 

[Mass Deduction]

what kind of bike do you have?

His point was a legal restriction, if I understood him correctly.

Most of the big companies (Trek, Specialized, etc.) won't sell class-3 e-bikes in Canada.

Most of Canada, they're not allowed. In British Columbia, however, it seems to be a grey area. The rule here is that you can't be assisted past 32 km/h without pedalling. But with a class-3 e-bike without a throttle, you are pedalling when it assists you past 32.

 

[Mass Deduction]

Personally, I’d be a little concerned about approaching those kind of speeds w/o a full face style helmet. Facial reconstruction and dental implants are painful and expensive.
I’ve gradually upped my speed over the last year, but I draw the line at 30 mph, (downhill, no traffic) just because I’m older, my bones don’t heal as fast as they used to, and my bike handling skills aren’t that advanced.
It is a thrill flying downhill that quickly, though. I can see the attraction.

I recommend the Bell Super Air. It's the lightest-weight and best ventilated full-face helmet that I know of, that also has a removable chin-bar so that you can also use it as a regular helmet (so it's two helmets in one).

 

[Roxlimn]

I'm pretty okay with 32 kph. It's a reasonable speed and that's how fast most people can cruise on a muscle bike. I do not think most of the heavier speed pedelecs are safe to operate. Once you're hitting 45 kph, you're doing moped speed so you should have componentry and features akin to a motorcycle and you should also be outfitted accordingly. Past that, you're basically operating a motorcycle so you should be trained and outfitted accordingly. The bike componentry must also be motorcycle-grade.

Most people haven't crashed at 40 kph on a bicycle. I have. And it was not even as bad as it could have been. It's very high-energy and I broke both bones in my right forearm. It could have been worse, and I had road rash all along my right side. A bicycle capable of going at 45 kph on public roads should have thicker wheels, full suspension, and crash and performance-testing. And a license should be mandatory.

 

[Mass Deduction]

I'm pretty okay with 32 kph. It's a reasonable speed and that's how fast most people can cruise on a muscle bike. I do not think most of the heavier speed pedelecs are safe to operate. Once you're hitting 45 kph, you're doing moped speed so you should have componentry and features akin to a motorcycle and you should also be outfitted accordingly. Past that, you're basically operating a motorcycle so you should be trained and outfitted accordingly. The bike componentry must also be motorcycle-grade.

Most people haven't crashed at 40 kph on a bicycle. I have. And it was not even as bad as it could have been. It's very high-energy and I broke both bones in my right forearm. It could have been worse, and I had road rash all along my right side. A bicycle capable of going at 45 kph on public roads should have thicker wheels, full suspension, and crash and performance-testing. And a license should be mandatory.

I'm OK with cyclists being licenced, especially for e-bikes, and most especially for class-3 bikes. I have no problem with a cyclist being forced to demonstrate that they understand the rules of the road! I don't have a driver's licence, so I've never had to prove to anyone that I even know what the street signs mean, let alone the finer details, and that seems strange (even to me!).

I wear body armour as a base layer underneath my clothing on my e-bike (or, when it's really hot out, just the armour by itself). My armour might be lighter duty than you'd prefer, but I at least wear both upper body armour and lower body armour. They have body armour now that is so lightweight, so malleable, so breathable, and with hardpoints that harden on contact, that there's no good reason (aside from cost) to not wear it every single ride. I have multiple sets so I can be wearing one while the others are in the wash.

I always wear a helmet, absolutely *no* exceptions. When it comes to helmet, I'm a true believer. I don't wear a full-face helmet, but this discussion has me re-thinking that. Maybe I'll give the Bell Super Air a try.

In general I agree with you that if you're regularly riding a lot faster than 32 km/h that you should be armoured up. I also include road cyclists and others who're givin' 'er in this category, not just people riding class-3 e-bikes. I actually call minimalist armour like the ones I linked to "road armour" as it's less than what most mountain bikers should be wearing (at least most mountain bikers in British Columbia! ).