On the fence about about the 2019 rad mini or rip current ?
- Thread starter old55guy
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harryS
Well-Known Member
Juiced doesn't sell a bike like the Rad Mini. Their nearest comparable model is the scrambler, which is a cadence sensor, unless you upgrade to the top of the line model at $1000 more, but I guess you know that.
None of my ebike conversions have torque sensors (T/S) yet. I've test ridden T/S bikes. The main difference that I recall is that I can ride a T/S bike very slow under 8 mph with light pedal pressure. A cadence sensor bike will scoot up to 10+ mph when it detects the pedals moving. Scares newbies, Accordingly, when I need to maneuver slowly, I either shut off the motor or grab my brake cutoffs lightly. At regular bike speeds, I recall the T/S bikes give similar pedal resistance as my cadence units. It depends on the design. The better cadence units ones will try balance the effort from your legs and motor at higher speeds. The crap ones will not give you enough feedback. It's all motor with them.
I trust Rad didn't mess around and picked cadence systems that work better.
I also feel T/S systems are well suited for people who weren't bike enthusiasts. These are folks that don't use the gears. In that case, a system where you press harder to get power is simple to use. With a cadence sensor, if you do that in the wrong gear, the pedal don't spin and you fall over when the bike stops, unless you have a throttle.
None of my ebike conversions have torque sensors (T/S) yet. I've test ridden T/S bikes. The main difference that I recall is that I can ride a T/S bike very slow under 8 mph with light pedal pressure. A cadence sensor bike will scoot up to 10+ mph when it detects the pedals moving. Scares newbies, Accordingly, when I need to maneuver slowly, I either shut off the motor or grab my brake cutoffs lightly. At regular bike speeds, I recall the T/S bikes give similar pedal resistance as my cadence units. It depends on the design. The better cadence units ones will try balance the effort from your legs and motor at higher speeds. The crap ones will not give you enough feedback. It's all motor with them.
I trust Rad didn't mess around and picked cadence systems that work better.
I also feel T/S systems are well suited for people who weren't bike enthusiasts. These are folks that don't use the gears. In that case, a system where you press harder to get power is simple to use. With a cadence sensor, if you do that in the wrong gear, the pedal don't spin and you fall over when the bike stops, unless you have a throttle.
AHicks
Well-Known Member
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- Snow Bird - Summer S.E. Michigan, Winter Gulf Coast North Central Fl.
Re: cadence sensor and low speeds, all the bikes I've ridden have had PAS levels easily set by push button and LCD displays. On PAS level 1 my cadence sensor only bikes are easily ridden at very low speeds, with assist! Like speeds of 4 mph (difficult to maintain balance slow) on up to maybe 10mph (where I would likely change to PAS level 2 (because of increasing wind resistance, I'd be looking for a little more help/assist). Noteworthy maybe is that they've all been direct drive (gearless). I'm not sure why a geared hub would be any different in this respect, but I haven't been on one to say for sure.
Biggest point here is not all cadence sensor only bikes are going to accelerate to 10 mph as soon as you start pedaling. That's just not the case at all.....
I've never ridden a torque sensing equipped bike.
Biggest point here is not all cadence sensor only bikes are going to accelerate to 10 mph as soon as you start pedaling. That's just not the case at all.....
I've never ridden a torque sensing equipped bike.
hurricane56
Active Member
You'll want to try both as you'll hear arguments in both directions about cadence only vs cadence and torque sensing. After test riding and owning a number of various ebikes ranging from a Sondors to Stromer, I'm in the camp that thinks torque sensing is a requirement. For lack of a better description, cadence sensing only seems counter intuitive after riding a torque sensor bike. With cadence only, I found myself spinning faster and then shifting to easier gears to make the bike go faster. Torque sensing feels more natural, you use more effort to speed up. Then when your cadence catches up to your comfortable rpm, then you shift to a smaller cog, thus maintaining the speed.
As another point of reference, we have a little ebike commute club of four people that only ride to work. Collectively this year we've put down about 17k miles. Three out of four riders are on their 2nd or 3rd bike. And guess what brand they are? Juiced Bike. The fourth bike is a DIY, but even that is equipped with a bottom bracket torque sensor.
As another point of reference, we have a little ebike commute club of four people that only ride to work. Collectively this year we've put down about 17k miles. Three out of four riders are on their 2nd or 3rd bike. And guess what brand they are? Juiced Bike. The fourth bike is a DIY, but even that is equipped with a bottom bracket torque sensor.
I have bad knees so I prefer cadence as it gives you the power you want by simply moving the pedals. I find no problem with the way it gives power. Torque sensing bike require more pedaling power from your legs and knees. If your legs are in good shape then you may prefer the torque sensor.
A torque sensor is more like a motorless bike while a cadence sensor is kind of like an on/off switch in terms of power delivery. A torque sensor will feel more natural to a newcomer to electric bikes. Cadence sensors just take a little getting used to. I prefer torque sensors myself, but they are more expensive and a cost saving measure by Rad is to not use them. Maybe in the future!
AHicks
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Snow Bird - Summer S.E. Michigan, Winter Gulf Coast North Central Fl.
In the spirit of the whole story, the cadence sensor is turning the power on, but it's not like the motor is going to then start accelerating at some startling rate, even when considering the highest wattage motors available. And it's going to shut the power off the second you stop pedaling. Bottom line, it's very easy to pedal a cadence sensored bike at speeds so low you can barely keep your balance, or so fast it will blow your hair straight back. You would want a cadence sensored bike to have different levels of pedal assist (PAS). Multi level PAS (usually 5 or more) makes the cadence sensored bike so civilized anyone can ride one with confidence. You select the PAS level to get your job done at any given time. If that sounds difficult it's not. Takes about a hundred yards to get the idea for anyone I've shown. After that the "grin" appears, and they're hooked.....
vincent
Well-Known Member
And it is how the controller is programmed/how many levels of pas that determines how/when/ how much power you get on each cadence sensor bikes pas
Each cadence bike or torque sensor bike will be different
My suggestion is to ride the juiced and rad before you make a decision- and keep in mind rad 2018 may be programmed differently than rad 2019
I too am interested in seeing how rad has their bikes programmed now and am going to check out the 2019 bikes
I have ridden the juiced rip current and thought the pas in both cadence and torque was smooth/ controlled
My preference is a very controlled slower pas in the low levels whether the bike is torque or cadence
Each cadence bike or torque sensor bike will be different
My suggestion is to ride the juiced and rad before you make a decision- and keep in mind rad 2018 may be programmed differently than rad 2019
I too am interested in seeing how rad has their bikes programmed now and am going to check out the 2019 bikes
I have ridden the juiced rip current and thought the pas in both cadence and torque was smooth/ controlled
My preference is a very controlled slower pas in the low levels whether the bike is torque or cadence
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