Yet another thread sorry, newbie wanting help chosing something

[cbiker]

Need: Replace Quietkat Pioneer with something that will pull trailer up hill

Rider: classic dad bod middle aged male 5'10" 200lbs with 2 young kids weighing 80lbs combined

Application:
basically 3 main applications
1. gravel road ride to work 2 miles every day, typically just ride it with pedaling, flat route, works great don't even need the PAS unless in a hurry- lots of gravel, often muddy, slush so fat tires work good
2. weekend / evening offroad riding, hunting, fishing, through fields, pastures, dirt trails, lots of hills and small brush etc - biking for exercise and using PAS on the hills or through sloggy stuff
3. same as 2 but WITH a bike trailer along behind so less of the brush but pretty much all the rest of list in 2

Reason for the ebike: gives a lot more freedom, can cover more ground, can be mid ride and something comes up so need to get home fast or whatever can just crank up the power and do it, really like that, but mainly trying to be biking for exercise so usually have the power off or bump it up on larger hills when the trailer is behind

Ride 1 hour a day - 7 days a week - so not a high miler, this is after work/before work - rural town so riding is as follows: gravel roads, grass fields / pasture with often small brush, weekend trails - mostly low rollling dirt trails through hills that work with the trailer in tow, getting exercise, usually just pedalling / using the PAS for the larger hills

Current setup:
Quietkat Pioneer 500w with Trek bike trailer

Issues:
#1 issue that is really only reason looking to get into another bike is that the bike doesn't have the power to pull the kids up hill on the best route that works out well for a quick after work ride. (the ride is approx. 6 miles round trip from house of which 3 miles is downhill and 3 miles back is up hill)


Notes:

Am not a "skilled / knowledgeable biker" before this bike, biking experience was hand me downs and used 10 speed "full suspension" walmart type jobs, but it seems the factors at hand is the bike doesn't have multiple speeds to gear down on the long steep hill, which the setup works good for most of the riding but the best "trip" for after work with the kids not working is the killer - it works fine on the same route without the trailer with pas on top level to help on the worst stretch, its a big heavy bike, can ride the same stretch with the regular 10 speed but the 3 miles back is literally "up hill" for 3 miles and the one stretch of it is about 1 mile that is quite steep and is just dirt/grass trail - with the weight of the trailer on behind the bike and myself just powers out and the gearing is too high to get any kind of good pedal oomph into it.

Have been looking and the main things I have found helpful for those giving suggestions / further questions:

1. mid drive with the hills seems to be the most common point - with gearing and mid drive
2. mid tires like 3" mountain bike compared to fat tire - not against looking at this, fat tire works good on the loose gravel/slush etc so think they are best for my application but willing to be told otherwise, the tires on the "old 10 speed" i assume are just like 2" or something, and the narrow tires definitely don't float through a field with stubble and lumps like the fatties
3. my research leads me in a variety of ways, as prepared to spend the $ to get something that flat out works for what i do, it opens up a lot of options but it doesn't seem like there is just a "winner"
such as

Research and what I want to do leads me to Biktrix Juggernaut XD - wow, power, up hill looks great - so does anyone on the forum have this beast? it seems like the "there, that will yank the trailer up the hill and heavy duty chain etc so won't be constantly going through drive parts or breaking a chain halfway up the hill" but then get looking through forums, reviews etc and can't actually find any posts, groups anything where someone actually OWNS and reports feedback on the beast

Then have guys saying, well the mid drive bosch motors have all kinds of power at 300w or whatever and the BBS HD or the Ultra and so on


Looked at:
Quietkat - Apex, Warrior, Jeep - mid drive, fatties, seem to check the boxes off good
Luna - Z1 or X2 - really nice looking bikes and cheaper than those mid drive Quiet kats
Biktrix Juggernaut


then various hunting specific bikes
Rungu - the duallie makes a lot of sense but just not practical for me
Rambo
Bakcou

Himiway
Wildtan
Enorau Fat HD

Final thoughts
1. don't care top speed, 20mph is fine
2. think that fat tires suit me better
3. full suspension sounds nice, sometimes over some logs and rougher drops when not pulling trailer would be nice to have the mountain bike feel but the fat tires do a ton
4. can't look like dogs breakfast
5. quality is more important than cheap
6. just want to pull that hill and as much of it that can be "biking power" just with the motor to get the momentum going on the real steep stuff with the trailer
7. good range is a plus
8. helpful tips and tricks welcome


Help!

PS. Does ANYONE have a Juggernaut XD with real life reviews ?

 

[indianajo]

When climbing hills there is no substitute for horsepower (or kilowatts). With your riding style you are not going to overheat either mid-drive or hub motor. A 250 watt mid-drive with a 46 tooth front and 48 tooth rear will climb about anything, but slowly. I ride 77 hills of up to 15% grade with 330 lb gross, in 3.7 hours, with a 1300 w hub drive. No longer available, due to the **** 3 class system all the legislatures are adopting. One horsepower, 746 watts, is 33000 ftlb/minute. That is 330 lb raised 100' vertical in one minute. Note bicycle motors are rated for the input power, not the ftlb delivered to the road.
Geared hub drives cannot climb 1000' with weight in an hour, it overheats them, one motor vendor said. Another vendor refused to sell me a geared hub because we have hills in southern Indiana. Like I say, rollers are no problem, the Rockies & Sierras are for beach to crest excursions.
I have to say pulling a trailer adds more drag and frontal area (air resistance) you could do without with a stretch frame cargo bike. Loading the kids might be harder but with grab bars, a padded shelf, spoke covers over the wheel, lots of people are doing it with 2 kids. Riding on road, I like to be up high, to give me (and kids if I had any) a chance of bouncing over the hood of a motorist. My neighbor did it, only one night in the hospital.
I'd also say low pressure fat tires are a huge drag and kilowatt eaters. Try to find something that will take 2.4" or 2.8" medium pressure tires (55 psi) Most fat tires, 3.0 up, are 30 psi max. Radioflyer L885 looks good but I can't look at the specs, it locks up my computer. https://flyer.radioflyer.com/ebikes 500 w I see. Blix packa has 750 watts and only one post on the known problems thread of the brand forum, after 6 years in business. www.blixbikes/products/packa
If you really like changing chains every kilomile or two, giant momentum has a yamaha mid with dealers . Maybe the battery is not as expensive as bosch (>`$1000). I get ~5000 miles out of my chains with a hub drive.
With the stretch frames, you'll lose the suspension feature. You can add a suspension fork later to most of them with standard column diameter. My yuba has an oddball steering column diameter, makes it impossible for me.

 

[cbiker]

Great reply and lot of good info.
My initial thoughts from your input

1. I really think I need the fat tires or at least mtb tires like 2.8 or something as a lot of riding is in fields/brush
2. Like the trailer rather than cargo bike because for the percentage of time not pulling trailer it makes for a more suited biked for the usage

Do appreciate the reply and good points, have more to think about.