Yamaha error 15 and drained batteries

[Desiresa]

Hi!
I'm trying to figure out why my Haibike sduro 2016 with a Yamaha motor is giving the error code 15, doesn't start and drains the battery even while being stored. I was hoping that changing the display (x94) would solve one of the problems since E15 point to it, but it didn't help. I've also tried two different batteries but the draining issue stays the same. I first noticed that the power consumption was way to high while biking. After charging it from empty to full it didn't start and the error code appeared.

Anyone has an idea about what the fault could be?

 

[Mike TowpathTraveler]

I've enclosed a link for a free download of the Yamaha PW service manual X94: https://www.manualslib.com/manual/975488/Yamaha-X94-Series.html

Within the manual and as you indicated, Error 15 indicates a bad display. But...... several questions you have to ask yourself: 1. Do you have the correct LCD display? There were two types of LCD displays, the earlier of the 2 (model year 2014 and 2015) featured ECO-STD-HIGH power settings. The 2016 model year featured ECO-ECO+-STD-HIGH power settings. Externally, all three model year displays look exactly the same, except for those power settings. From what I understand, a PW with the 4 power settings will not work with an older display featuring just the 3 power settings. And vice-versa.....

You state that you replaced the display. Did you also replace the controller switch/display holder/wire runs when you replaced your display with a new one? If not, maybe you should. If you did, is it possible you pinched wires after you had lowered the motor to undo the display/controller connections at the motor and then, placed the motor back into position? I know when I did my PearTune speed chip, I found the space for the wires to be quite small indeed and the chances of pinching a wire or three was quite easy if I were not careful putting the motor back into place.

Being these batteries (like mine) are going on 10 years old. I found them to lose power over a matter of a few days of not using the bike & recharging it back to full when the ride was over. At least this is how my Yamaha batteries behave. Charging them to full and I am good to go for the next ride (provided the next ride is the following day or two. Any longer and the battery will bleed off power within the cells; something I take is just a matter of the battery being older now.

You should have qualified Yamaha ebike motor specialists over there in Europe. Likely moreso there than what we have here in the USA; especially now since Yamaha left our market.

 

[Mike TowpathTraveler]

Here's a video of our own Court Rye from back in time, explaining the newer model year 2016 PW display:

 

[Desiresa]

I've enclosed a link for a free download of the Yamaha PW service manual X94: https://www.manualslib.com/manual/975488/Yamaha-X94-Series.html

Within the manual and as you indicated, Error 15 indicates a bad display. But...... several questions you have to ask yourself: 1. Do you have the correct LCD display? There were two types of LCD displays, the earlier of the 2 (model year 2014 and 2015) featured ECO-STD-HIGH power settings. The 2016 model year featured ECO-ECO+-STD-HIGH power settings. Externally, all three model year displays look exactly the same, except for those power settings. From what I understand, a PW with the 4 power settings will not work with an older display featuring just the 3 power settings. And vice-versa.....

You state that you replaced the display. Did you also replace the controller switch/display holder/wire runs when you replaced your display with a new one? If not, maybe you should. If you did, is it possible you pinched wires after you had lowered the motor to undo the display/controller connections at the motor and then, placed the motor back into position? I know when I did my PearTune speed chip, I found the space for the wires to be quite small indeed and the chances of pinching a wire or three was quite easy if I were not careful putting the motor back into place.

Being these batteries (like mine) are going on 10 years old. I found them to lose power over a matter of a few days of not using the bike & recharging it back to full when the ride was over. At least this is how my Yamaha batteries behave. Charging them to full and I am good to go for the next ride (provided the next ride is the following day or two. Any longer and the battery will bleed off power within the cells; something I take is just a matter of the battery being older now.

You should have qualified Yamaha ebike motor specialists over there in Europe. Likely moreso there than what we have here in the USA; especially now since Yamaha left our market.

Huge thanks for all your thoughts and expertise!

The exchange display was a 2016 just like the original one, and they both show the same error. Trying that was the simplest to start with, and the next step is to test another display holder and controller with wiring.

Cables easily gets squeezed indeed, but I've checked them, examined suspected squeeze damages and the cables are fine. I also tried removing the chip with no different result.

Measuring in the contact from the motor gives a voltage from one of the four pins. I will look into whether or not there should be another voltage assuming that two of them are ground. Maybe you know? If that's the case it points to a problem in the motor.

I'm convinced that the batteries are not the problem. That they started draining fast was a sudden change during the ride that gave the display error. One of them is newer and they unlikely got the same problem at the same time. Only the bike drains them, they are perfectly fine on the other bike and left disconnected. My guess is that the bike is trying to connect repeatedly or that there is another electrical problem that consumes power. Maybe a problem with the circuit board in the motor. I hope not!!

And yeah, there are specialists in Europe. I'm 1250km from the nearest one and things are normally solved in my own garage. Mechanical stuff are much more straight forward than electrical, so I'm curious about the knowledge and experience of others this time.

 

[Mike TowpathTraveler]

I'd recommend referring to page 2-28 onward of the X94 manual because within, there are specific procedures as to finding any recorded fault codes within the motor or display. There are also specific battery checks you can make and the manual explains how to do that earlier in the manual.

Myself, if that were my problem, I would follow those tests to pin point exactly where the problem lies. I'm more mechanically than electrically inclined myself, but this I know from reading on line here and over on the pedelec forums for Yamaha in Europe: probing around the battery or other areas with the battery is is not recommended unless you know for sure which leads you are touching. The risk of frying the battery bms or causing other damage is too great; unlike, say, the Bafang or other chinese ebike control systems. (Maybe moreso the earlier, non-Canbus chinese motor systems).

Ebike motor centre in England features some Yamaha motor parts, in particular the Circuit Board. That business is the one that started the idea of repairing your own motor using their bearings. Lots of videos there on hand on how to do it, including our Yamaha PW. Link: https://www.ebikemotorcentre.com/product/yamaha-printed-circuit-board/

You did not by any chance submerge your motor? That could damage the motor internally, but then again, the only way to truly find out what ails your system is by following the X94 trouble shooting and codes retrieval steps.

Heck, your problem can be my own further down the line, so let me know what you find so we can share it all on this forum! I bought my Haibike Full FatSix, yamaha pw drive in winter, 2017. Racked up close to 20,000 miles on it with the only issue being a spoke magnet loosened up, cutting assistance and the every-2-years procedure of changing the display battery.

 

[Base]

error 15 is either a dead battery in the display (cr2032) or a bat contact between the display docking and driveunit.

 

[Desiresa]

I'm grateful for your comprehensive answer @Mike TowpathTraveler and will definitely keep the thread updated on the outcome! I didn't know about the risk with measuring on the wiring and will follow the tests described in the manual. If the motor isn't totally water proof there could definitely be humidity in it but from a long time ago in that case. At the time of break down it was minus degrees which it's new to the bike but water freezing this time would be a problem. I haven't opened or done any service in this motor so the sealing should be intact, but who knows...so far.

@Base , the display battery is new and I've actually tried a few, which points to the contact problem. Just so that I understand it correctly, do you mean a contract between the display holder and the button controller on the handlebar? Do you know if it can be fixed or if the whole controller circuit has to be replaced?

 

[Chazmo]

a dead battery in the display (cr2032)

Oh, for sure, check that. Could be bad in both displays given their age.

Oh, never mind. I see you already checked it.

 

[Base]

Problem would be either in the displayholder or in the wire harness