X1 No power output when pedaling with 500C display

[loamoaf]

I finally got things squared away to where I could test my battery and go for a ride - or so I thought. My X1 powers on and I can go through the settings in the display etc etc - but there is no power output when pedaling! I tried taking the bike off the rack and getting on it so there's some force for the pedal to combat and nothing! I'm using a 500C display but there should be no issue with that as I've seen others here with the display. I just want one good experience with this thing... supposed to be a 52V controller and I have a 52V battery charged up to 58.6V ready to rock and roll

Anybody have this issue? Reads speed when the rear wheel is spinning, but no output at any of the nine levels when pedaling. Made sure to check to see if my brake position is flipped, etc but no luck... I no error codes on the screen. Saw a thread mentioning the 500C works differently with the PAS levels - using speicifically what is set in the programming but I'm still waiting on a programming cable... I'm getting so desperate to ride before our summer is truly over and this is just... after so many little obstacles in my build of course there would have to be one more. I'm about to reach out to WW but who knows how slow they will be in fixing this - I'd like to try to diagnose myself, I'm about to order a DPC-18 which I really don't want to do but I'm desperate for a solution here

 

[loamoaf]

Ugh... holding down the '-' button kicks it into walk mode and the motor powers successfully... I think I need the programming cable to set it up with the 500C?

this is nuts. I just want to ride. Either I swap my stock M620 in or I order a 750C and wait for it and swap that out and hope it works...

 

[bexamous]

Hmm I don’t really know.. don’t think you should need a programming cable for it to function. Walk mode works? Does throttle work? If only pedaling doesn’t work seems like issue is torque sensor not plugged in or just not working.

 

[greeno]

loamoaf is this a WW bike with the Archon X1 controller?
I have an Ultra motor with the Archon X1 upgrade and I am using the 500c display and it works perfect.
Send me a PM and we can discuss online or by phone.
Thats a better option than contacting WW if you want to get it squared away.
Just sayin.

 

[loamoaf]

Thanks for the responses,
So I'm a clown and I expected to be able to activate pedal assist with the bike up on the stand... turns out it needs a liiiiiiittle more force and rotation than what I can manage with the hands... my stock motor was behaving exactly the same and I didn't have the correct cable yet to swap onto my throttle and plug into the Bafang harness when I posted this, but I've checked and throttle works fine - seems to be set to speed mode and definitely not the the full 1-4V range of the throttle, but that's not a huge concern for me. I believe the throttle signal the X1 expects with the factory tuning matches the stock Bafang 1.1-3.6V throttle signal range. So to reiterate there is a force and rotational threshold that has to be met for the motor to assist, and I'm such a baby I didn't even take the bike outside and ride it to check before crying. To Watt Wagon's benefit they did respond to me relatively quickly so it seems like things have improved a lot on their end - even if we are all still waiting for programming cables.

@greeno do you use brake switches? Another thing I noticed about the X1 with the 500C is while my brake switch functions properly to cut power the brake icon - a yellow ((!)) in the lower left corner - doesn't show up. I'm not bothered by it since the cutoff still functions, just curious. I think I'm also going to order a 750C or even 750C-BT display along with second harness and all that for my other motor and am curious to test it out with the X1 to see if there's any difference in that brake indicator.

I did a 10awg + XT90 power cable swap on my X1 but I think I didn't plug the speed sensor back in when I closed it back up because now I don't get a speed signal from it, so I've set aside some time tonight to get back in there and correct it when I also do the SHC-100 & power cable/connector swap on my stock motor. I was going to compare stock bearings to fancy bearings in the X1 but I might as well toss the fancy ones in there tonight as well since I got a taste for the stock bearings on a ride with the stock M620 over the weekend - some noise on the way back is what's prompting me to do that SHC-100 swap in that one as well, even though it will likely remain on the shelf after the X1 is plugged in and working correctly...

One thing I will say - the when I opened up the X1 it looked like the SHC-100 had been slapped in there on top of the regular clear(ish) grease. SHC-100 I believe is clay based and idk how it would react in the presence of another grease, but that could be why my X1 was much harder to turn by hand than the stock motor. I cleared out most of what was in there and regreased with only SHC-100 but I didn't pull the largest gear to get the back side. I don't think this is causing the speed sensor issue though as the Innotrace controller boards have a conformal coating on it so should be sealed up, and I was pretty thorough with ensuring no grease in the controller compartment.

also for anyone curious the X1 controller has 100V caps so as long as the software is made to support it, it should be able to go much higher than 52V nominal.

Overall though I'm impressed with the M620 in general - 45km ride with around 1000' total elevation gain started at 58V and ended at 55V on my 18Ah pack. PAS 6 she zipped right up a 16-17% grade on throttle like it was nothing. Excited to see how good the X1 is and then how it will ride after my programming cable arrives and I can set it up as I please. JRA's tune for the stock M620 really gives you a good gradient on assist levels I didn't realize how much of a work out I was giving myself until I kicked the PAS level higher on the way back.

 

[tomjasz]

SHC-100

No it’s lithium not clay. And compatible with the lithium used by Bafang. Mobile 28 is clay based.

 

[greeno]

Nope I don't use the brake cut-off switches, got em capped off.
Correct on the Mobil 28 being clay based.

 

[Fast n' Furious]

"You probably need to add fixed resistors in series with pins 1 and 3 so the output will be 1-4v instead of 0-5v. (1.2K - assuming the throttle is 5k).
You can use an ohmmeter to measure across the ground to 5v pins on the throttle (throttle unplugged), or you may be able to find it in the specs. This is for 5k, but you could be different.
Micoswitch Max operating V is 2A/24V and electronic speed controllers may use up to three different types of brake signal inputs to deactivate power to the motor.
Low... refers to using a 5vdc or less electronic signal and shorting it to ground with the brake actuation switch.
High... refers to a 12 vdc signal being provided to the proper pin by ether the brake switch, or perhaps by tapping into a 12vdc brake light power line. The brake analog signal uses a 5vdc supply (which is varied in voltage depending on the brake lever position) by use of a hall sensor or other means.
The issue with potentiometer types is a lot of the commonly available e-bikes and conversion kits use controllers that don't have the same range input for the throttle signal. Usually/ some/ most controllers have an adjustable TPS range, or (like the X1) auto-calibrate, but some just don't match up, resulting in either on/off function when actuated, and/ or significant dead space in the twist before power kicks in (Sound familiar ?).
The solution is to test and identify the signal of the throttle paired with the controller of your system, or find what the input of the bare controller you have is - then test the output of your throttle - and wire a specific resistor depending on how the numbers crunch."
-
The above info is paraphrased from Endlessphere. I followed the instructions - as I posted in the throttle thread and it worked great for me, to obtain full throttle range that's properly modulated by twisting the throttle - not just an on or off signal.
However, your controller's firmware is likely set to 20mph max (Class II), (and the X1 lacks a 'speed/ power' setting for eco modes) to stay legal.
Any circumvention of street legal requirements would require a statement addressing non-legality for on-road use.
Thus, while unavailable in Eco settings for TPS, "Speed" or "Power" would be in the SP Mode settings - which are intended for off-road use only.
Regardless that fact, the proper resistors gave me full throttle range in all modes without tuning other settings.