Would either or both of these ebike batteries be OK ?

[tomjasz]

they have a 1 year warranty but I'm not concerned about it.

But getting a replacement from aliexpress after the purchase protection has ended is impossible. And that doesn’t cover a full year warranty. You can’t ship a battery back. My friends insurance had to pay out when the resold battery caught a house on fire. There was no way to hold a Chinese builder responsible. So the third owners insurance tagged the American reseller.

Amazon does seem to hold sellers to reasonable standards.

Google Amazon reviews, there’s a serious problem with bogus reviews. I’m happy you are happy but no reseller can eat 5% warranty claims. I’m sorry but your understanding is lacking a clear view.

 

[tomjasz]

Maybe better to buy from a seller on Amazon then. Amazon does seem to hold sellers to reasonable standards. I've bought hundreds of things on Amazon, only had problems with a couple of them - sellers have either stood behind their products or Amazon has made it right. Again, you are reporting from hearsay, not your own experience. I'm pretty sure that if anyone on EBR burned his house down with a aftermarket ebike battery that they would relay that experience. I am much more careful about charging my cheap batteries than the Yamaha battery though, not that the Yamaha couldn't have a catastrophic failure. Spending more doesn't always translate into getting a better or more reliable product, it can merely translate into higher margin for the seller or a product with premium features that a buyer might not need (higher capacity cells, higher discharge rate, buying a brand, etc).

Not everyone is willing to publicly publish their poor choices.

 

[HansTrio]

Fortunately, there are nowhere near as many horror stories to publish as some would have others believe.
And many if not most of those can be traced to user error.

Maybe not "everyone", but most people probably have no problem telling of their bad experience because it helps others.
I suppose those who are not considerate of their fellow enthusiast might not.

I happen to be one of those who would without hesitation. If this battery fails spectacularly, this forum will be among the first to know.
Will you let us know if your more expensive, safer battery fails spectacularly?

 

[Gionnirocket]

But getting a replacement from aliexpress after the purchase protection has ended is impossible. And that doesn’t cover a full year warranty. You can’t ship a battery back. My friends insurance had to pay out when the resold battery caught a house on fire. There was no way to hold a Chinese builder responsible. So the third owners insurance tagged the American reseller.

Google Amazon reviews, there’s a serious problem with bogus reviews. I’m happy you are happy but no reseller can eat 5% warranty claims. I’m sorry but your understanding is lacking a clear view.

I agree that with just about all online vendors but especially aliexpress and Amazon, you need to take reviews with a grain of salt. Aliexpress doesn't allow for reviews I believe past 45 days and updates past 6 months and even then you can't change the rating, only add additional comments. The Chinese business model is buyer beware. Nothing wrong with it if you understand it going in and don't expect a homerun at such a low price.
The reviews in general give you some insight as to what you'll be receiving and which sellers have at least descent business practices. I've actually gotten some really good advice and deals on Aliexpress, so I still use them as some sellers are pleasant to deal with.
Amazon reviews can be/are somewhat bogus. I know this for a fact as I have been contacted several times to receive free items in turn for reviews.
As with all reviews.. They're only one part of the decision making process and shouldn't be your only consideration.

Fortunately, there are nowhere near as many horror stories to publish as some would have others believe.
And many if not most of those can be traced to user error.

Maybe not "everyone", but most people probably have no problem telling of their bad experience because it helps others.
I suppose those who are not considerate of their fellow enthusiast might not.

I happen to be one of those who would without hesitation. If this battery fails spectacularly, this forum will be among the first to know.
Will you let us know if your more expensive, safer battery fails spectacularly?

I agree... I believe that a good portion of catastrophic failures can be traced back to user error. Some of the builds you see are so sloppy and with people not following basic instruction on install and charging. And then there's plenty of name brand laptop and phone horror stories to go around that I don't think that Lithium battery failures fall solely at the feet of simple build batteries.
That said, I'll be a little more cautious with a low cost battery. This is where my little solar charger hack gives me a little piece of mind as it's another layer in the over charge shut down protection on top of the BMS and charger.
I think I might like to add a thermal monitor/shut down as well... hmmm... Another poject

 

[EMGX]

I remember the thread where people were looking at them and wondering if they should take the plunge. CATL and similar cells in and of themselves are not evil.

So far I know of no horror stories tied to them, or even any customer dissatisfaction. The first negative I have seen was commentary from the teardown thread a few days ago. Thanks to that brand name being so unique it was easy to find and screenshot. Take this for whatever its worth as the opinions here are as varied in expertise and reliability as they come on the internet. It will need to be opened up in a new window, maybe saved to disk and blown up so its legible. Its a full-size screen shot done with software that lets me grab the whole thing.

For me, I spend the extra money, oftentimes on custom packs, which I do pay thru the nose for.

I read the file you attached and got the impression of a head case. Admits to having junk piled waist deep in his house and garage, charges battery unattended overnight, basically a disaster waiting to happen . Similar to some negative Amazon product reviews which are posted by amazingly ignorant people who blame a product for their incompetence.

I read some of the endless sphere posts on the TSDZ2, what a bunch of knuckleheads, they should rename that site "endless bullshit". Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
Sort of like my truck, a F350 diesel with a engine designed to run 325-350hp and it has plenty of power stock. But guys pump them up to 600+hp coal breathing dragons then complain when the motor doesn't stand up to it while I have 250,000 miles on mine and it runs like new. Maybe I'm lucky, or maybe they are dumbasses.
My bikes have done fine with these batteries so far but I don't use them on a Bafang super powered, fat tire bicycle version of a monster truck either.

 

[tomjasz]

Yup those knuckleheads developed improved firmware and made other displays compatible. What idiots.

 

[m@Robertson]

I read the file you attached and got the impression of a head case.

Yeah the signal-to-noise ratio is pretty high there and on E-S, both at the web site and worse at the companion FB group. You'll notice I said to take it for what its worth as experience and competence levels vary *widely*. But you still learn stuff, even if sometimes its only that people are dumber than you thought they were.

 

[tomjasz]

Yeah the signal-to-noise ratio is pretty high there and on E-S,

Once I sorted who the experts ES became very useful.

 

[m@Robertson]

Oh absolutely!

I would definitely classify E-S as several steps up over and above the group I linked above.

But... oh my gawd the politics there! E-S on Facebook is Fanboy Central for Grin Tech, which is not a surprise since Justin @ Grin saved the forum, and owns it and keeps it up and running for the community. And there's drama aplenty as Luna is hated above all things, and no expression of hatred is too over the top. And certain folk @ Luna have decided to make everything worse by outright trolling E-S and making things worse on purpose. But... I'm not sure I wouldn't be vindictive too if I were them given the bile that spews any time they or their products are mentioned, particularly since fibs are OK so long as they are about Luna. I almost never walk away from a group but I did so from E-S on Facebook. The hatefests were so bad they displaced the content.

 

[john peck]

Any reason this would not be a reasonable choice for a 1000watt ebike kit ? It's an 18650 based battery.
Sold on ebay.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/402774747697

Or...would a lithium Ion battery like this be a better choice ?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/313541943085

I hesitate because the ad fails to mention whose cells they´re using. The price seems to good to be true.

 

[Gionnirocket]

This one is a btrbattery LiFePO4, another working great (so far) is a 36v 10ah lithium btrbattery, as well as a lithium 36v 15ah qzf that's been in use for a couple years and a 48v 15ah that I don't remember the seller. I'm hoping you have as good luck on your aliexpress battery and looking forward to reading your impressions/review.

Looks like my guesstimate on delivery was a bit too pessimistic... Seems the battery arrived in California and is in UPS's hands with a scheduled delivery of Monday the 28th. That's just under 3 weeks from placing the order.
I better make sure my Halon System is charged and certified.

 

[EMGX]

Looks like my guesstimate on delivery was a bit too pessimistic... Seems the battery arrived in California and is in UPS's hands with a scheduled delivery of Monday the 28th. That's just under 3 weeks from placing the order.
I better make sure my Halon System is charged and certified.

Or maybe just don't charge it unattended overnight surrounded by gas cans, stacks of old newspapers and oil soaked rags. If you report that your battery didn't result in dead kittens, puppies and nuns but actually worked OK I might want to give one a try.

 

[tomjasz]

Or maybe just don't charge it unattended overnight surrounded by gas cans, stacks of old newspapers and oil soaked rags. If you report that your battery didn't result in dead kittens, puppies and nuns but actually worked OK I might want to give one a try.

Goofy.

 

[tomjasz]

I do tire of these threads from fellas with one battery experience. I have no reason to disparage battery sellers. In my limited (sarcasm) experience I’ve seen scores of failures.

 

[Gionnirocket]

I do tire of these threads from fellas with one battery experience. I have no reason to disparage battery sellers. In my limited (sarcasm) experience I’ve seen scores of failures.

C'mon! Don't jinx me!!
Penance to Santo Bafango

 

[tomjasz]

Fortunately, there are nowhere near as many horror stories to publish as some would have others believe.

I'm curious. How did you come to this conclusion? I've worked in support since Dec 2015. I guarantee that disastrous failures are more common than you seem to think.

 

[HansTrio]

I'm curious. How did you come to this conclusion? I've worked in support since Dec 2015. I guarantee that disastrous failures are more common than you seem to think.

By being a member of numerous Lithium Battery forums and many forums where those batteries are used frequently.

How many people use this forum? How many members of this forum have had such a catastrophic failure?
Let's see your evidence that the statistics support your claim.

There are tens of millions of cheap Chinese lithium batteries in use in the USA alone.
Would you say 10% have had catastrophic failures?
How about 5% ?
1% ?
0.1 % ?

As stated previously.....a significant portion of those involved in "accidents", some kind of user abuse or error was involved

 

[tomjasz]

Maybe someday I'll be as insightful. After I gain some battery experience...

Not everyone cruises forums. How you can come to any conclusion from forums and posts that are never vetted escapes me.

I take some risks with battery packs but in a very controlled setting. A secure charging container fashioned from 40MM Ammo can. Smoke detectors in my cabinet and ceiling above the charging box..

What some may call customer abuse may actually be the cheap battery pack has none of the protections of a quality pack, and the sellers never provide clear instructions. The market has grown exponentially over the last 18 months. Putting more mediocre products in the hands of consumers.

Unwatch and out.

 

[Gionnirocket]

Maybe someday I'll be as insightful. After I gain some battery experience...

Not everyone cruises forums. How you can come to any conclusion from forums and posts that are never vetted escapes me.

I take some risks with battery packs but in a very controlled setting. A secure charging container fashioned from 40MM Ammo can. Smoke detectors in my cabinet and ceiling above the charging box..

What some may call customer abuse may actually be the cheap battery pack has none of the protections of a quality pack, and the sellers never provide clear instructions. The market has grown exponentially over the last 18 months. Putting more mediocre products in the hands of consumers.

Unwatch and out.

Hold on a second Thomas!
Do you mean to tell me that the 48V/10ah battery that I'll be getting delivered next week for under $100 isn't going to be state of the art?

 

[EMGX]

Maybe someday I'll be as insightful. After I gain some battery experience...

Not everyone cruises forums. How you can come to any conclusion from forums and posts that are never vetted escapes me.

I take some risks with battery packs but in a very controlled setting. A secure charging container fashioned from 40MM Ammo can. Smoke detectors in my cabinet and ceiling above the charging box..

What some may call customer abuse may actually be the cheap battery pack has none of the protections of a quality pack, and the sellers never provide clear instructions. The market has grown exponentially over the last 18 months. Putting more mediocre products in the hands of consumers.

Unwatch and out.

Respectfully, your posts, statistics and conclusions aren't vetted either and that is the nature of forums like this, everything needs to be taken with a grain of salt.
High energy batteries harbor dangerous amounts of energy and present risks to users. Even expensive batteries considered high quality can and do fail. Simply spending more doesn't guarantee safety nor quality. There are a lot of mail order ebikes that cost less than my Yamaha battery alone and there are vanishingly few verified/"vetted" reports of cataclysmic failures.
My take away is that I'll charge my ebike batteries isolated, never unattended and store them away from flammables in ammo cans. I wouldn't advocate that anyone who uses an ebike battery that is less expensive or potentially lower quality than my $1,000 Yamaha battery ($1250 including a charger) is using a substandard dangerous battery.

No purpose in arguing or trying to convince others that one's view or experience is the only valid one. But given that, based on your 5% failure rate of cheap batteries (type of failures not specified by you) on average I would have to buy 20 to have one dud. I'll not likely buy 20 cheap ebike batteries in a lifetime so those odds sound OK, especially since you don't state that the 5% failures you experienced resulted in fire/explosion or if they simply didn't work, or didn't work to your specification.