Widespread Giant motor creaking problem - time for a recall?

[davidsmartin]

I have a set of "T" 3/8" sockets. The T30 socket looks like this:
View attachment 98034

Do you use a socket wrench to turn it? I broke the tip off one of these with a regular socket wrench but I was not being careful with it. Then I got them somewhat tight by using one hand to keep the socket straight. When I tested it with the torque wrench it was not quite up to 22 ft-lbs. But it turned out that the big torque wrench was too hard to control and broke the tip off the socket. Probably that won't happen if I use the regular socket wrench and I am careful. Can you offer any advice?

Thanks.

 

[arcom]

Do you use a socket wrench to turn it?
Yes.
Can you offer any advice?
Make sure the Torx hex key is properly seated before tightening
Invest in a decent torque wrench with a range you'll find on your bike. I like this one:

https://www.amazon.com/Venzo-Torque-Wrench-Allen-Socket/dp/B0773ZNB1B/ref=asc_df_B0773ZNB1B/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=309763890402&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=8587516756798993014&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9010168&hvtargid=pla-569147419630&psc=1

 

[gorse]

My good news is that after I greased the three bolts and reattached them my creaking stopped!

My bad news is that when using my torque wrench to tighten the bolts, I broke the T30 bit. Three times. Even though I tried to support the bit and keep it at the right angle, by the time I was getting to 30 NM of torque, obviously I was not keeping the bits straight enough. Does anyone have suggestions about how to avoid this problem? Should I just use an impact wrench and trust that I won't tighten it so far that I will damage the bike?

30Nm is too much for an M8 fine pitch thread. 22Nm is mentioned in that service manual and I wouldn't go above 20Nm unless you have a good quality wrench.

 

[davidsmartin]

30Nm is too much for an M8 fine pitch thread. 22Nm is mentioned in that service manual and I wouldn't go above 20Nm unless you have a good quality wrench.

On page 44 the service manual says:

1. To reassemble, follow the complete procedure in reversed order. The frame bolts should be tightened with 30Nm.

30 Nm is equal to 22 foot-pounds which is the torque that Kiwi Giant recommends in post #66.

I suspect my mistake was to use a big automotive torque wrench that was too hard to control. The T30 socket bit was deeply embedded into the bolt and it did not take much sideways pressure to break the bit. Now that I have a sense of how tight 22 foot-pounds is, next time I can probably do it with my small socket wrench. If that fails I will look for a higher quality T30 socket bit. Hopefully the fix will last for a few hundred miles and I won't have to try it again for a while.

Thanks everyone.

 

[gorse]

On page 44 the service manual says:

1. To reassemble, follow the complete procedure in reversed order. The frame bolts should be tightened with 30Nm.

30 Nm is equal to 22 foot-pounds which is the torque that Kiwi Giant recommends in post #66.

I suspect my mistake was to use a big automotive torque wrench that was too hard to control. The T30 socket bit was deeply embedded into the bolt and it did not take much sideways pressure to break the bit. Now that I have a sense of how tight 22 foot-pounds is, next time I can probably do it with my small socket wrench. If that fails I will look for a higher quality T30 socket bit. Hopefully the fix will last for a few hundred miles and I won't have to try it again for a while.

Thanks everyone.

Sorry, you're right - was looking at the SyncDrive Pro motor bolt torque values

 

[Matt_D]

Pity most cycling torque wrenches only go to 24Nm max. There's a few 3/8 inch torque wrenches that do go to 30Nm (at about 3-4 times the price mind you!), but they don't include the T30 bits.

Might have to simply guesstimate by hand like I've done the last few times. I did find that the creaking noise was still apparent after over tightening the mounting bolts post lube with moly grease. Someone said that 30nm is snug but not gorilla tight.

This is the kit i bought but clearly under spec'd for this job:

https://www.repco.com.au/en/tools-equipment/hand-tools/torque-wrenches/mechpro-blue-1-4in-dr-bicycle-torque-wrench-mpbw115/p/A5555811

 

[04fuxake]

The creaking on my motor was terrible today. It starts out silent but by the end of the ride, it was ridiculous to the point I was going to push the bike just so I didn't attract attention.

I'm going to drop the motor out this weekend and try to put some sort of super-thin interface between the motor and frame bolt holes.

 

[gorse]

The creaking on my motor was terrible today. It starts out silent but by the end of the ride, it was ridiculous to the point I was going to push the bike just so I didn't attract attention.

I'm going to drop the motor out this weekend and try to put some sort of super-thin interface between the motor and frame bolt holes.

Not wanting to irk you; but mine is dead silent, with 7000kms on it, and I have 400m of climbing on my daily commute. Have you tightened the crank bolts? I apply copper grease to the crank splines and threads, and same grease to the motor bolt seating surfaces. I recheck the cranks every month or two and regrease the motor bolts yearly.

 

[Ofarrell]

I also had the creaking problem... did as instucted.... remove bolts, grease and put back in. No issues since. I had a bit of an issue due to my bad eye sight but if I can manage anyone can. Holding the nut in place was a bit of a challenge due to large hands. And I did use a torque wrench. All good in the end.

 

[04fuxake]

I've found simply loosening the mounting bolts and giving the holes a quick spritz of CRC 5.56 stops the creaking for a few weeks. It's a 5 minute job so I can put up with it for the timebeing.

 

[pullenj]

I’ll try adding a videoView attachment 38141

I've been reading about how to remove and grease the motor mount bolts and I can see you pointing to two of them in your photo. In the speedbox video it looks like the third one is under the plastic piece just to the left of the bolts in your photo. Is it easy to get to the third bolt or do those two you are pointing to fix the problem? Thanks!

 

[cratterbury]

I’m glad I found this post as I’ve been posting for a while on Facebook about my creaking issue and not getting anywhere!
I have a Haibike Hardnine 7 and after I installed a dropper post which involved dropping the motor to feed the cable, I’ve since had creaking in the cranks/pedals when applying pressure or standing.

The bike has been in the shop to check over and they couldn’t find anything. Been told it’s the seat post, it’s the forks, the pedals, the motor knackered etc. I then saw a video on YouTube about a guy cleaning the motor bolts and shims and it fixed his creaking to which I googled Yamaha PW Motor Shims and came across this post.

I’ll certainly be giving this a go tonight as I’ve nearly given up and facing a 2 hour drive to take the bike back, despite it only being less than a month old and less than 200 miles on the display.

Will give copper grease a try as I have some (also have lithium) but will turn bike over and take bolts out and clean them all good first and maybe silicone spray them after using isopropyl to clean them and the frame.

Fingers crossed!!

 

[cratterbury]

Tried and failed! Either it’s a different issue or I don’t know.

I have noticed that my crank arms are becoming loose though. Tightened them few days ago using small torque wrench, tried them now and they weren’t as tight again. No idea - taking bike back to shop! Fed up of it after spending hours trying different things and none working!

 

[gorse]

Tried and failed! Either it’s a different issue or I don’t know.

I have noticed that my crank arms are becoming loose though. Tightened them few days ago using small torque wrench, tried them now and they weren’t as tight again. No idea - taking bike back to shop! Fed up of it after spending hours trying different things and none working!

The crank bolt torque is 45Nm, so far higher than a 1/4" torque wrench can achieve. Basically about as tight as you can get with a normal length 8mm allen tool without standing on it...
I keep an eye on mine and recheck the bolts every month or so - if you ride with loose cranks; the interference fit gets sloppy and they will never stay tight.

 

[cratterbury]

The crank bolt torque is 45Nm, so far higher than a 1/4" torque wrench can achieve. Basically about as tight as you can get with a normal length 8mm allen tool without standing on it...
I keep an eye on mine and recheck the bolts every month or so - if you ride with loose cranks; the interference fit gets sloppy and they will never stay tight.

Mine are square tapered or something? According to bike shop they shouldn’t get loose? I’ve no experience with these as I’ve always had a proper interchangeable bottom bracket.
Scared of tightening too much however bike shop did say they checked it all which was only less than a week ago so surely shouldn’t be loose again? Could be my source of creak?
Really trying to think of anything now as the shop I bought the bike from is a 2 hour drive and have to fit the bike inside a VW Golf which is a hassle! Just emailed Haibike to see if they honour warranty claims through bike shops or do I have to take the bike back to the original shop - kind of know the answer I guess but worth asking as going to cost a lot in fuel, especially if I end up having trouble with it and have to go back and forth all the time.

 

[gorse]

Mine are square tapered or something? According to bike shop they shouldn’t get loose? I’ve no experience with these as I’ve always had a proper interchangeable bottom bracket.
Scared of tightening too much however bike shop did say they checked it all which was only less than a week ago so surely shouldn’t be loose again? Could be my source of creak?
Really trying to think of anything now as the shop I bought the bike from is a 2 hour drive and have to fit the bike inside a VW Golf which is a hassle! Just emailed Haibike to see if they honour warranty claims through bike shops or do I have to take the bike back to the original shop - kind of know the answer I guess but worth asking as going to cost a lot in fuel, especially if I end up having trouble with it and have to go back and forth all the time.

Check it. 45Nm torque is 29kgf for a 16cm 8mm allen tool. Basically, if you can tighten it by hand with a 16cm allen tool - it was too loose. Either that or buy a 3/8" torque wrench...
I'd do that before going anywhere near a dealer, most are incompetent.
Oh, and use some anti-seize on the taper and bolt thread. It will reduce the required torque a little (but not by much) and it'll help with the squeaking. Those people that say square taper cranks should be dry fit have never had to cut a crank off that was seized on.

 

[cratterbury]

Thanks for all your replies and suggestions. I was ready to give up and arranged to take the bike back on Sunday but thought I would try one more thing suggested and take the crank arms off to clean and re-grease.
I noticed I needed a tool to take the cranks off and my brother had one so I decided to ride over to his to grab it, just before going sprayed some Muc Off Protect and Shine where the cranks attach to the bracket/motor.
Creaked as usual on the way there. Grabbed the tool and had a chat. Coming home - nothing! Not a sound. Went up a hill to apply pressure, nothing!
Went for a spin up a big climb tonight, nothing!

Muc Off on the crank fixed it! Wtf!?????

 

[Warby]

I only just found this website and would like to share my experience with a 2019 Giant Quick E+ bike. Very early on, it developed the same creaking noise, every time I applied force to the pedals. It drove me mad and I tried everything to solve the problem - tightening cranks, swapping pedals, greasing everything in sight, without solving the problem. When I did finally discover the source of the problem, it was a 1 min fix to solve it forever. I discovered that the underneath of the battery had small scratch marks on it. It had been in contact with the body of the frame and the slight flexing of the frame was enough to create the noise. I assume that the noise was magnified by the hollow frame of the down tube. To fix the problem, I removed the battery and applied several strips of insulation tape to the underside, then replaced it. That was about three years ago. The problem never came back.

 

[Warby]

Tried and failed! Either it’s a different issue or I don’t know.

I have noticed that my crank arms are becoming loose though. Tightened them few days ago using small torque wrench, tried them now and they weren’t as tight again. No idea - taking bike back to shop! Fed up of it after spending hours trying different things and none working!

It is probably not the motor causing the noise. I have a 2019 Giant Quick E+, and the creaking noise drove me made until I discovered what the real culprit was. The noise was coming from the underneath of the battery coming into contact with the down tube. A slight flexing of the frame was enough to create the creaking noise. I removed the battery and applied some insulation tape to the underneath of the battery. Replaced the battery and now have been riding for over three years with NO NOISE. A very simple fix to a common problem.