Why the big brand (Bosch, Yamaha, Shimano etc.) battery packs cost so much?

Xyeet

Xyeet

Member
So lithium ion battery prices have dropped significantly in the last 10 years. But still Bosch, Shimano, Yamaha etc. sell their battery packs really high prices what could be the reason behind this? You need to pay upwards 700€/$850 for 500Wh battery packs, their pricing is like straight from 2010. Meanwhile for example you can buy general 1000Wh battery packs with quality panasonic/samsung/lg cells for 500€/$605 from EM3EV for example.

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Battery Pack Prices Cited Below $100/kWh for the First Time in 2020, While Market Average Sits at $137/kWh | BloombergNEF

BloombergNEF’s annual battery price survey finds prices fell 13% from 2019 Hong Kong and London, December 16, 2020 – Lithium-ion battery pack
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There typically is a little more technology built in to the major manufacturers batteries such as communication and more monitoring aspects but the main reason is because they can... their customers want convenience and service.
You're basically buying an insurance policy, as with the rest of the product.. not necessarily a better product.
 
Gionnirocket said:
There typically is a little more technology built in to the major manufacturers batteries such as communication and more monitoring aspects but the main reason is because they can... their customers want convenience and service.
You're basically buying an insurance policy, as with the rest of the product.. not necessarily a better product.
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Plus they are balanced packs so you dot have cells draining faster then others. thats why the battery level is always the same after it sits. plus on my bosch the power is even clear till the battery is depleted.
 
fooferdoggie said:
Plus they are balanced packs so you dot have cells draining faster then others. thats why the battery level is always the same after it sits. plus on my bosch the power is even clear till the battery is depleted.
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That's standard on most packs as they incorporate even a simple BMS
 
I have a Jumbo Shark battery from EM3EV. It is a good quality battery that is balanced and has a BMS that has a bluetooth app for monitoring it. I don't own one, but the Luna Wolfpack is a fully potted and bullet proof battery. The Grin Ligo batteries are also potted, innovative, and use a first rate BMS. The name brand manufacturers charge more because they make their batteries proprietary so that you have to buy from them. A closed ecosystem is the Apple model for computers back in the day as opposed to the IBM PC model.
 
RunForTheHills said:
I have a Jumbo Shark battery from EM3EV. It is a good quality battery that is balanced and has a BMS that has a bluetooth app for monitoring it. I don't own one, but the Luna Wolfpack is a fully potted and bullet proof battery. The Grin Ligo batteries are also potted, innovative, and use a first rate BMS. The name brand manufacturers charge more because they make their batteries proprietary so that you have to buy from them. A closed ecosystem is the Apple model for computers back in the day as opposed to the IBM PC model.
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plus they give a good warranty to back them up it all costs. look at bosch you can get a printout of all the info on your battery.
 
fooferdoggie said:
well it is but it takes more work all the cells have to be tested and then kept together. most of the cheap battery packs don't have that effort put into them.
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Again Battery Building 101, really nothing specific to Bosch, not sure why you think so. Manufacturers supply batteries to builders by batch/lot matching internal resistance and age. It's not very difficult to double check this for each individual pack.
fooferdoggie said:
plus they give a good warranty to back them up it all costs. look at bosch you can get a printout of all the info on your battery.
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And again... You're buying a warranty. Not saying that it doesn't have a value, but that's what it is.
 
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RunForTheHills said:
I have a Jumbo Shark battery from EM3EV. It is a good quality battery that is balanced and has a BMS that has a bluetooth app for monitoring it. I don't own one, but the Luna Wolfpack is a fully potted and bullet proof battery. The Grin Ligo batteries are also potted, innovative, and use a first rate BMS. The name brand manufacturers charge more because they make their batteries proprietary so that you have to buy from them. A closed ecosystem is the Apple model for computers back in the day as opposed to the IBM PC model.
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Yeah the current big brand battery prices are just pure robbery. They must have really high margins when they are selling their mass produced batteries with so high prices. All big brands 500Wh batteries costs here 700-1000€ which is just insane.
 
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Xyeet said:
Yeah the current big brand battery prices are just pure robbery. They must have really high margins when they are selling their mass produced batteries with so high markups.
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I don't know what their margins are, but they sell through the dealer channel and the middle men mark it up too. EM3EV, Luna, and Grin manufacture their own battery packs and sell them direct through the Internet. I recently bought a Brompton Electric and did a quick search on the cost of a second battery. I haven't called the dealer I bought the bike from yet (they are a 100 mile drive from me), but an online source wants over $800 for a 36V 8.55 AH battery. It does seem to have the controller built into the battery though.
 
lets do a little math with very round figures.
20 18650 cells at $4.00 each= $80
BMS for 48v 20Ah =$20
Case $30
Charger $20
other MISC parts like solder and tabs $50

Total $200
 
ruffruff said:
lets do a little math with very round figures.
20 18650 cells at $4.00 each= $80
BMS for 48v 20Ah =$20
Case $30
Charger $20
other MISC parts like solder and tabs $50

Total $200
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well thats the cost for low end parts. bosch batteries don't even come from china.
 
fooferdoggie said:
well thats the cost for low end parts. bosch batteries don't even come from china.
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People who always focus on lowest cost will never be persuaded by value factors. Their cheap stuff breaks down more often adding to their suspicion of all manufacturers and making them feel like "they" are all out to rob and cheat them.

Banging your head against a wall only feels good when you stop ;)
 
Same reason that a fuel hose for a Plymouth Neon costed $60 and had to be flown in to Louisville from Atlanta, and a fuel hose for a Ford Escort costed $10 and was available at any auto supply in town in 3 hours. Different business models. The Plymouth Neon fuel hose was patented so that you could only buy replacements from the Plymouth dealer. The Bosch connectors are patented so you can only buy the battery from their authorized dealer. People line up to buy the Bosch systems, and they are not even the low price segment of the market that the Plymouth Neon was. Bosch makes a premium product that people want, and are willing to pay extra for it. I was not convinced bosch "features" were necessary to my needs - so I bought ebikeling & luna. My cheap $221 ebikeling motor was reliable for 4500 miles, and the luna battery is 3 1/4 years old, 6500 miles, and still has no symptoms. It cost me only 2 afternoons to convert the ebikeling motor over to a Mac12, and I didn't have to rent a truck for $140 twice to carry the bike up to a dealer in Indianapolis (110 miles), and back when he was done with it days or weeks later.
 
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Why is the cost of these bespoke battery packs important (+ profitable)?
Why are there so many used 'name brand' eBikes for sale @ $,$$$.00? ( Cash If u please ! )
Because, to begin with, their batteries are too 'small' ( low AH with 'last year's' cells) and 'viola youneeda 'nuther one
 
indianajo said:
Same reason that a fuel hose for a Plymouth Neon costed $60 and had to be flown in to Louisville from Atlanta, and a fuel hose for a Ford Escort costed $10 and was available at any auto supply in town in 3 hours. Different business models. The Plymouth Neon fuel hose was patented so that you could only buy replacements from the Plymouth dealer. The Bosch connectors are patented so you can only buy the battery from their authorized dealer. People line up to buy the Bosch systems, and they are not even the low price segment of the market that the Plymouth Neon was. Bosch makes a premium product that people want, and are willing to pay extra for it. I was not convinced bosch "features" were necessary to my needs - so I bought ebikeling & luna. My cheap $221 ebikeling motor was reliable for 4500 miles, and the luna battery is 3 1/4 years old, 6500 miles, and still has no symptoms. It cost me only 2 afternoons to convert the ebikeling motor over to a Mac12, and I didn't have to rent a truck for $120 twice to carry the bike over to a dealer in another state, and back when he was done with it days or weeks later.
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I had 6500 miles my first year on my bosch powered bike. I want my bike to work an be reliable always since t is my transportation.
 
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