Why electric motorcycles are failing

[Art Deco]

Europe is just too restricted. Canada seems sane but still too slow, at 500w and 20mph via pedal, throttle, or gravity.

Then trikes, tandems, and recumbent ? bikes all use different amounts of power.There are class 3 high speeds vs every other class 1 and 2 at 20 mph, and motor cycles vs mopeds at a horsepower and speed limit. it's a bit complicated if all you have to do is get to work.

 

[antboy]

And right there ^^^ you have some of the very reasons we as ebikers, emotos, or whatever category we want to slice it had better quit getting our feelings hurt and trying to factionalize each other. Break everyone down into opposing groups until we only support those who have red handlebar grips on their vehicles...LOL!

I guess it's almost human nature unfortunately to have some of that..."that group isn't part of us, so I don't care what happens to them"...until they come for your group. There is potential fallout up and down the chain of E-vehicles, and it's wise to pay attention to what's going on out there even if you have no intention of participating in one of the other groups. The is the "General" category of the forum, and it's wise not to stick one's head in the sand.

You know, sometimes categories and legislation ARE helpful...

this

and this

Should NOT be in the same category of vehicle, but they are in many places, like Canada. They're both under 100kg and both have a top speed of 32kph so they're both e-bikes.

It's not a matter of more OR less legislation, it's a matter of SANE legislation.

 

[Asher]

You know, sometimes categories and legislation ARE helpful...

this

and this

Should NOT be in the same category of vehicle, but they are in many places, like Canada. They're both under 100kg and both have a top speed of 32kph so they're both e-bikes.

This is a misleading visual comparison. You're bringing up a picture of what looks like a high speed motorcycle to say it shouldn't be classed like an e-bike, when it's actually a glorified slow moped.

That's not to say that they should or shouldn't be treated the same, but the photo comparison is extremely misleading. The Netherlands frequently allows slow gas mopeds (15 mph limit) to use the bike lanes, so it's not without precedent to class them the same.

 

[fauconnier]

Personally I don't see any problem, if they respect the 500W 32kph rule in my province. We shall not judge by the envelope, rules are written for safety purpose. That being said, the EMMO is probably breaking the 500W rule as a lot of M620, BBSHD, BBS02, to name a few, bikes with a traditional look.
p.s. Looking to the EMMO, It's a lot of brake to stop a 32 kph bike, a super safe braking !

 

[antboy]

This is a misleading visual comparison. You're bringing up a picture of what looks like a high speed motorcycle to say it shouldn't be classed like an e-bike, when it's actually a glorified slow moped.

That's not to say that they should or shouldn't be treated the same, but the photo comparison is extremely misleading. The Netherlands frequently allows slow gas mopeds (15 mph limit) to use the bike lanes, so it's not without precedent to class them the same.

It's NOT a misleading visual comparison at all. We just have a difference of opinion.

I happen to think that a vehicle that doesn't have functional pedals AND weighs in excess of 200lbs should be classified as an e-bike.

Just because the former (travelling at a derestricted speed) almost rear-ended me last year, except for my reaction time, doesn't make me biased at all.

 

[fauconnier]

I happen to think that a vehicle that doesn't have functional pedals AND weighs in excess of 200lbs should be classified as an e-bike.

I agree with you on those 2 points.

 

[RunForTheHills]

You know, sometimes categories and legislation ARE helpful...

this

and this

Should NOT be in the same category of vehicle, but they are in many places, like Canada. They're both under 100kg and both have a top speed of 32kph so they're both e-bikes.

It's not a matter of more OR less legislation, it's a matter of SANE legislation.

I wonder why there is even a market for something like the EMMO. If you want a motorcycle, why not just buy a real motorcycle?

 

[antboy]

I agree with you on those 2 points.

I don't know WHY our gov't set 100kg as the "weight limit" of an e-bike. It's like they focus on the "e" in "e-bike" and forget all about the "bike" part, aka "bicycle" as in "pedal".

Just to be clear, I'm not anti-throttle, I just think that human-powered pedaling should be a requirement.

I'm also NOT opposed to low speed vehicles that can't be pedaled. Scooters (whether gas or electric, whether they look like a Vespa or a Kawasaki Ninja) I just think they need a different classification than e-bike.

 

[Art Deco]

Looks like the fairings alone on that bike weigh more than most ebikes, or are they just for looks styrofoam stuff?
I don't understand fashion at all, but that bike is apparently a slow, heavy, ugly motorcycle. Why?

 

[fauconnier]

The only logic to buy a bike like this one is the intention to derestrict it.

 

[antboy]

Why?

They're as easy to derestrict as a Bafang hub, and go pretty fast (60+kph).

Toys/replacements for people with suspended driver's licenses are probably fairly big target markets.

 

[Mr. Coffee]

They're as easy to derestrict as a Bafang hub, and go pretty fast (60+kph).

Toys/replacements for people with suspended driver's licenses are probably fairly big target markets.

So you need to worry about people who like to operate vehicles while intoxicated plowing into you with one of those monstrosities?

 

[Art Deco]

They're as easy to derestrict as a Bafang hub, and go pretty fast (60+kph).

Toys/replacements for people with suspended driver's licenses are probably fairly big target markets.

Better than what I thought of. I was thinking people were buying these for their kids that were too young for liscence. Still nasty. DUIs are a real problem around here .

 

[Art Deco]

So you need to worry about people who like to operate vehicles while intoxicated plowing into you with one of those monstrosities?

On a bike trail..or a bike lane..or a 25mph country road.

 

[sc00ter]

I remember when pedal start gasoline powered mopeds (motor assisted pedal cycle) were treated like bicycles. They were like bearer bonds. No regulations of any kind and if yours got stolen you could never prove it was yours. Now mopeds are (and sub 50cc scooters) required to have a valid tag/plate and follow road going vehicle laws. No insurance required-yet. This is in Virginia. I can see the same rules falling on ebikes as their speed and popularity increases. No more class rating, just a top speed max allowance. Mopeds are currently limited to 35mph. Myself, I wouldn't have an issue with this, but I do slip on empty sidewalks with my ebike if traffic is crazy and that would be grounds for a improper driving ticket.

 

[antboy]

So you need to worry about people who like to operate vehicles while intoxicated plowing into you with one of those monstrosities?

Possibly...

My condo "neighbourhood" has it's own forum, and there was a thread there where somebody with a suspended license was asking about alt transportation, and another person recommended an Emmo e-motorcycle specifically because how easy it was to derestrict.

 

[Art Deco]

Laws drive me nuts. Here in Pennsylvania, we aren't even required to wear a helmet on a motorcycle, but they really go for registrations, annual inspections, and such as a fund raising stream. Inspection is 20 or 30 dollars, a ticket for not having a current sticker is hundreds. Ask me how I know.

 

[RunForTheHills]

So a derestricted EMMO can go 40mph? I can sympathize that someone with a suspended license still needs to get to work and go to the store, but you would think that they would want to be low profile an not attract police attention while doing so. The EMMO looks like a motorcycle and no cop is going to treat it like an ebike if you are riding it at 40mph on the road.

 

[Art Deco]

So a derestricted EMMO can go 40mph? I can sympathize that someone with a suspended license still needs to get to work and go to the store, but you would think that they would want to be low profile an not attract police attention while doing so. The EMMO looks like a motorcycle and no cop is going to treat it like an ebike if you are riding it at 40mph on the road.

Does it come in "Arrest Me" Red?

 

[antboy]

So a derestricted EMMO can go 40mph? I can sympathize that someone with a suspended license still needs to get to work and go to the store, but you would think that they would want to be low profile an not attract police attention while doing so. The EMMO looks like a motorcycle and no cop is going to treat it like an ebike if you are riding it at 40mph on the road.

Yep, on the Zone GTS you just have to pull a single cable that connects to the speed limiter. Here's a video I came across last year. I kind of did a deep dive on these after my near-collision, to see what they were capable of.

The dude was going 65kph on the road, and is pulled over by the cops. He even calls it a "bicycle" when talking to the officer, and the cop says "Oh I can see your pedals on there"

EDIT to add: The reason I'm harping on this is that as long as e-scooters/e-motorcycles are classified as e-bikes, when people start getting killed by the former, the legislative crackdown will likely have the same effect on the latter because in the end, legislators are people too.