Why Americans, particularly millennials, have fallen out of love with cars

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https://www.chicagotribune.com/news...ung-adults-cars-attitudes-20181106-story.html

"Almost half of more than 1,000 consumers surveyed do not enjoy most of the time they spend driving, said a study by Arity, a Chicago-based transportation technology and data company created two years ago by Allstate Insurance.

The numbers are starkest for millennials. More than half of adults between the ages of 22 and 37 say a car is not worth the money spent on maintenance, and that they would rather be doing something other than driving."

So buy an ebike: Much cheaper. Less hassle. No parking issues. No sitting in traffic. Get exercise. Less pollution.

Every now and then rent a Zipcar, or use Uber for when you really need one.
 
If that survey was done in downtown Chicago, LA, San Fransisco, or Manhattan, maybe. But a more than 1,000 consumer survey hardly scratches the surface of the nations millennials. Performance and handling of cars is at an all time high. They sure don't market them to retirees! I've seen a row of rental bikes sitting in one big block of ice in Chicago.
 
If that survey was done in downtown Chicago, LA, San Fransisco, or Manhattan, maybe. But a more than 1,000 consumer survey hardly scratches the surface of the nations millennials. Performance and handling of cars is at an all time high. They sure don't market them to retirees! I've seen a row of rental bikes sitting in one big block of ice in Chicago.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/loca...ory.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.6f1f5c1a278c

Both are National studies.

Majority of US population in Cities (~63%):
https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2015/cb15-33.html

The 'commuting problem' is all over, and not just limited to a few densely populated cities.

Average commute time is worse its ever been....
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ay-than-its-ever-been/?utm_term=.c501598ae84a

Average new car cost setting record high....
https://mediaroom.kbb.com/2018-01-0...n-December-2017-According-To-Kelley-Blue-Book

Boomers are retiring. Its the millenials and gen x'rs that are the future. And more and more are deciding cars aren't all they are cracked up to be, and they seem to be making different decisions regarding transportation than their parents were typically making.

Subprime car loans are at astronomical levels. (cars so expensive, people are taking out loans they can't afford, and the lengthy loans are getting upside down faster than ever before)
https://jalopnik.com/how-subprime-car-loans-are-ruining-lives-and-repeating-1796893288
 
I for one and sick of car commercials on TV. I want/need technical information to base a buying decision on a motor vehicle. TV commercials for cars have ridiculously little actual info on the car. Instead it's catch lines like "with great power comes great responsibility".. Gee that really helps me choose. I'd like to see some e-bike TV adds, that would be great!
 
I like the idea of 'Every now and then rent a Zipcar, or use Uber for when you really need one'. A lot cheaper alternative than having a car sitting around waiting to be used, not to mention all of the cost associated with owning opposed to renting. Something to consider for many of us E-bike owners.
 
Too soon to conclude that millennials will never embrace cars. If you were to look at baby boomers, you'd think that behavior was hardwired.
No wonder as to what is dulling their enthusiasm. Add the high initial cost of the car + insurance + maintenance to an already shaky balance sheet and millennials are actually making a prudent decision. Less appreciated is the all out war that bureaucrats have declared on cars. Here in Dem controlled CA, they've already told us that $10 gas is a forgone conclusion. They have come to the not illogical conclusion that to get us out of cars, they will make the situation so intolerable as to make it the only sensible choice.
 
What is so wrong with $10 per gallon gasoline? The Dutch pay nearly that much and you wouldn't call the Netherlands an awful place to live.

As for the "war on cars"... how many thousands of people die each year in auto accidents? If there is indeed a "war on cars", one can only conclude that the cars are winning.

Too soon to conclude that millennials will never embrace cars. If you were to look at baby boomers, you'd think that behavior was hardwired.
No wonder as to what is dulling their enthusiasm. Add the high initial cost of the car + insurance + maintenance to an already shaky balance sheet and millennials are actually making a prudent decision. Less appreciated is the all out war that bureaucrats have declared on cars. Here in Dem controlled CA, they've already told us that $10 gas is a forgone conclusion. They have come to the not illogical conclusion that to get us out of cars, they will make the situation so intolerable as to make it the only sensible choice.
 
I think it might be because it is getting sooooo expensive to live compared to 10-20-30 years ago. Millennial are making choices and doing without AND they have expenses we didn't have when I was a kid in the 70s/80s. I got out of college in 1990 with $4500 in student loans and I thought that was a lot. My new son-in-law just graduated last year from Univ of New Mexico with +$60,000 in student loans. I can't imagine starting life already so deep in the hole and having to put on hold marriage, travel, family, new(er) car purchase, home purchase, and saving for retirement.
 
I agree with the comments made by mrgold35. Cars have gotten to be very expensive since I was the age of a millennial. Basic incomes have not kept up with the cost of autos. I also believe with options like Uber and now ebikes, owning a car or a second car doesn't make a lot of since to the younger drivers.
 
Spoken like someone who drives a limousine.

I think you meant "spoken like someone who rides in a limousine." And no, I am neither of those things. I ride an electric bicycle. And I have had the privilege to travel the world expensively and have managed to learn that most of the countries with high gas prices are pretty decent places. While many places with low fuel prices (Venezuela @ $0.03/US gal) aren't places I'd care to live. So there is no evidence that higher fuel prices would turn a place like California into a dystopian hellscape. I'd argue that higher fuel prices would lead to less fuel consumption, which would both reduce vehicle traffic and greenhouse emissions -- both are things that I think would make California a nicer place to live.
 
And I have had the privilege to travel the world

I have traveled or lived in some of these countries. Public transportation options (including rail) make it much easier to go carless or to limit excursions by car. I can’t blame people here for fearing $10/gal fuel prices. Even in the DC, taking the Metro (subway) from one inner-ring MD suburb to a nearby one means doing it via DC. It just isn’t feasible. Our regional rail (MARC) has a limited weekday-only schedule. Some suburbs have only limited bus service.

With respect to Millenials and cars — how much of this is about preferring to call an Uber vs owing a car?
 
I think you meant "spoken like someone who rides in a limousine." And no, I am neither of those things. I ride an electric bicycle. And I have had the privilege to travel the world expensively and have managed to learn that most of the countries with high gas prices are pretty decent places. While many places with low fuel prices (Venezuela @ $0.03/US gal) aren't places I'd care to live. So there is no evidence that higher fuel prices would turn a place like California into a dystopian hellscape. I'd argue that higher fuel prices would lead to less fuel consumption, which would both reduce vehicle traffic and greenhouse emissions -- both are things that I think would make California a nicer place to live.

Sorry for the side diversion, but from your travels do you have any opinions on fuel costs vs quality / cost of living in those countries. I'm particularly interested in the effect on transportation costs for food / the production costs for farmers etc , and if any countries seemed to get the balance right between personal transportation vs , I guess, infrastructure benefits of cheap / subsidised fuel.
 
I think you meant "spoken like someone who rides in a limousine." And no, I am neither of those things. I ride an electric bicycle. And I have had the privilege to travel the world expensively and have managed to learn that most of the countries with high gas prices are pretty decent places. While many places with low fuel prices (Venezuela @ $0.03/US gal) aren't places I'd care to live. So there is no evidence that higher fuel prices would turn a place like California into a dystopian hellscape. I'd argue that higher fuel prices would lead to less fuel consumption, which would both reduce vehicle traffic and greenhouse emissions -- both are things that I think would make California a nicer place to live.


Let me summarize that for you:

"I've got mine, so the rest of you get lost!"
 
Sorry for the side diversion, but from your travels do you have any opinions on fuel costs vs quality / cost of living in those countries. I'm particularly interested in the effect on transportation costs for food / the production costs for farmers etc , and if any countries seemed to get the balance right between personal transportation vs , I guess, infrastructure benefits of cheap / subsidised fuel.

Well, I spent about two months in 2012 road-tripping through France, Spain, the Netherlands, Belgium, Germany, the Czech Republic, Austria, and Switzerland. Most of the trip was in a small Korean SUV with three people and the last twenty days were in a mini Cooper with two people and a lot less stuff. We mostly visited smallish towns and skipped the big cities. We stayed in campgrounds, cheap hotels, B&Bs, and a few home and apartment rentals. All of those countries have fairly steep ($6-$8/gallon) fuel prices.

I've traveled a little bit in Norway and Sweden and would like to do much more, and have spent a few months in Northern Italy as well. Those places also have fairly high fuel prices.

Generally I would say that groceries and the like were more expensive, but not grossly so. More precisely, the premium you'd pay in a big, dense American city like New York or San Francisco would be substantially larger than the premium you'd pay at the Intermarche in Cahors over a Safeway in Des Moines. From what I saw of the people and places I stayed the quality of life was very high and while some towns were run down and a little dumpy nothing I saw was grossly impoverished.

If you bought a burger and fries from a roadside stand or a McDonalds you'd pay within about two bucks what you'd pay in the states, and not necessarily two bucks more.

If anything I suspect that the higher prices have more to do with higher labor costs and rents than fuel prices.

Having said all that, what I found much more intriguing was the cultural differences implied by what was and was not available. Produce, meat, cheese, and bread were all somewhat more expensive but the quality (in particular the produce) was very high. Convenience foods were much more expensive and generally not as commonly available. Gourmet coffee was impossible to find (most of Western Europe seems to top out at the Sanka/Folgers level). And finding decent tortillas, hot sauce, or jasmine rice was also a project.

On the other hand, in 2010 I spent three weeks roaming around Egypt, which at the time had fuel prices subsidized to about $0.50/gallon. In Sallum there was a line for the petrol station that was literally miles long, with every imaginable (and some unimaginable) vehicles waiting for a shipment of fuel. I was hoping to get to Siwa Oasis but the buses weren't running due to lack of fuel and any driver I could find wanted an outrageous price for the trip. While dates and bananas and bread were all inexpensive if you wanted a decent cup of coffee you'd probably pay ten bucks for it.
 
I hear you saying that California is not a dystopian hellscape. Los Angeles and San Francisco are both parts of California, so I'm not sure you've visited recently? The homeless have occupied these cities. If you don't think vagrant tents, beggars, smash and grab thefts, clubbings, murders, spent hypodermic needles, and human waste constitute a hellscape, then I don't know what does.

Funny, I was recently (late August/early September) in San Francisco and spent a pleasant Sunday between Golden Gate Park, the Marina District, Fisherman's Wharf, and the Embarcadero. I didn't see any of that. The public toilets were in a disgusting state, but otherwise it was quite a pleasant trip.

I also find it interesting that I've never seen the degree of homelessness and gutter tribes in western Europe that you see in the states. So maybe higher gas prices make places nicer? My personal suspicion is that the answer is more complicated.
 
Yup. I remember a few years ago when gas went to $5/gallon here in California. I loved it. I could get anywhere in Los Angeles in 30 minutes, at least twice as fast as usual. The streets and freeways were empty. It was suddenly easy to go downtown for dinner or a show. The high prices only hurt the struggling class. The wealthy could afford to drive as they wished. You have to be pretty cold hearted to wish for those days again, but California politicians just upheld another $0.15 per gallon gas tax. Go figure.

Sorry Rincon, but you also have to be pretty coldhearted to support a system of subsidies that encourages people to consume fuels which warm the climate which then contribute to wildfires which burn people to death. Although dead people don't complain very much...
 
Thanks for the reples, it's interesting watching a us based discussion on fuel prices.

For perspective, I live in a small farming town in Australia. I think our fuel comes in around $6 a gallon ( sorry if I'm wrong on that - converting our litres to us gallons then allowing for exchange rates...) . Anyway, we have a pathetic public transport system, produce is transported via truck, farming costs are high and our labour costs are scary. The nearest decent coffee is 60 km away, and the chances of hitting a roo when there is no coffee onboard means fuel costs are irrelevant - I brew my own.

Interestingly, the freshest / best quality produce I've enjoyed in Australia was in some of our most remote destinations. Fruit at Tom Price is spectacular , and wonderfully cheap - a mere 1500 km from the nearest major city. I guess the mining companies look after their towns?

Anyway, I personally have no objection to high consumer costs for fuel but I do believe in subsidised fuel for infrastructure ( farming / transport etc) . Millennials - keep them out pf cars until they learn how to turn the phone off!!!
 
Cars are expensive and boring. One commercial even is bold enough to mention how boring they all are...except for their head turner, of course. Please.

I don't even own a car...just two Jeeps, which work for a living all winter, plowing the white flakes....and pay for themselves.

In contrast, ebikes are new, and a new genre of vehicle...insanely fun and useful, which the public is yet to catch on to. No wonder we're psyched!
 
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