I quite like my ( boring) car. It does a great job of carting 4/5 bikes to far away destinations, and it's pretty good at dragging my yacht in and out of the water. It's been a perfectly boring 20 year relationship. Admittedly I do get a bit worried about over investing every time I fill up the fuel tank.....
Why Americans, particularly millennials, have fallen out of love with cars
glenmorenee
Member
Your traveling post sure looks like a Sasquatch sized carbon footprint to me.
Yeah, do as I say, not as I do.
6zfshdb
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Northeast Pennsylvania
I'ts one thing to not enjoy time spent while driving but is it enough to make you give it up? It may be practical to switch to an ebike for some and to those I say go for it! Unfortunately, due to weather, terrain. distance etc, biking isn't an option for a large percentage of the US population.
There is also the safety issue. You may not enjoy your time behind the wheel but I'll bet you feel far safer than you would on a bike.
There is also the safety issue. You may not enjoy your time behind the wheel but I'll bet you feel far safer than you would on a bike.
Hi PDoz, just got back from a three week vacation driving around your beautiful country. You're right about the price of gas there, in fact everything there is more expensive, but on the other hand I didn't see the huge disparities in wealth that are so common in the States. Unlike the small, densely populated countires that were mentioned here outside of Sydney and Melbourne I can't imagine not having a car in Australia. The distances between smaller towns are huge and there's not a lot between them (well, except for beautiful countryside and really huge farms). By the way, besides the natural beauty and cool wildlife by far the best part of Australia was how nice all the people were - it's amazing to spend 3 weeks somewhere and not meet a single person who wasn't extremely nice.
indianajo
Well-Known Member
Modern US cars are designed to fail at 10 years and 200000 miles. The mile resistance is great and much better than cars of the seventies, but I would drive maybe 2000 miles year. The car would get a check engine light and become unrepairable at 20000 miles if I bought one. Don't tell me about the dealership computers, the one lied about our Chevrolet Cobalt and 3 things were replaced before they got the problem, which was not indicated in the fault text. Furthermore the temperature gauge was suppressed by the fault, which if I could have seen it would have told me that the thermostat was bad.
11 or more sensors are required by the computer to run the engine in economy mode. Otherwise it goes into limp home mode, which uses twice as much fuel and plugs the catalytic converter in about 400 miles. These sensors are run on 12 v, and at below 50 ma, and use tin plate or at best phosphor bronze connectors. This is a recipe for failure. Refineries use 48 v for their sensor connections. See "dry circuit contact" for a discussion of the problem. The US Army uses gold plated connectors for sensors on their tanks and APV's, which are expected to last better than 10 years.
Worse the connectors on the computer are tin, brass, or at best phosphor bronze. The car is doomed to get a check engine light at 10-12 years. If you could buy a new computer or wire harness, it would have been on the shelf of a warehouse since the car was built, oxidizing all the time.
If you buy a $120000 mercedes, you still get the tin-brass or phosphor bronze connectors and 12 v sensors. You just get more electronic **** to fail for your money.
My brother who runs a business has sold off several >10 year old low mileage vehicles that went to the dealer 4 times with a check engine light that wouldn't stay off for more than a month. In Houston, a working check engine light that goes out after startup is required for the annual inspection sticker in the front window.
Furthermore the NHSTA required tire pressure sensors are a maintenance boondoggle. The wires get snagged off the pickup, the sensors quit working at about 8 years, cost $100 each!@#$%%^&^&* There is almost no way to roll a cobalt, but because a lot of people drove SUV's way too fast with flat tires, I have to pay for this $1000 nightmare. When the tire pressure system has a problem, you are not allowed to see how far you've driven since the last fillup.
And the bodies won't resist a tractor trailer rear ender, I've seen a full sized Buick about 8" tall after a rear end accident on I-65. The crash star ratings are compared to a vehicle of THE SAME SIZE which is a complete fraud. The drunks and vapor huffers are always driving mega pickups or SUV's. And the **** airbags would blow out what high frequency cilia I have left in my ears if I did get caught in an accident. I don't even want to RIDE in an American car.
So if a bought a car, say a supercab pickup costing $35000, my cost would be $3500 a year or $1.50 a mile. Complete waste of money.
If I have to die after being rear-ended, let it be in a $3000 electric bicycle that meets nearly no regulations. I'm even allowed 1000 W, a throttle, and ~25 mph if I install the kit myself. If I need to move furniture I'll rent a U-haul. I'm not buying another car pickup or SUV.
11 or more sensors are required by the computer to run the engine in economy mode. Otherwise it goes into limp home mode, which uses twice as much fuel and plugs the catalytic converter in about 400 miles. These sensors are run on 12 v, and at below 50 ma, and use tin plate or at best phosphor bronze connectors. This is a recipe for failure. Refineries use 48 v for their sensor connections. See "dry circuit contact" for a discussion of the problem. The US Army uses gold plated connectors for sensors on their tanks and APV's, which are expected to last better than 10 years.
Worse the connectors on the computer are tin, brass, or at best phosphor bronze. The car is doomed to get a check engine light at 10-12 years. If you could buy a new computer or wire harness, it would have been on the shelf of a warehouse since the car was built, oxidizing all the time.
If you buy a $120000 mercedes, you still get the tin-brass or phosphor bronze connectors and 12 v sensors. You just get more electronic **** to fail for your money.
My brother who runs a business has sold off several >10 year old low mileage vehicles that went to the dealer 4 times with a check engine light that wouldn't stay off for more than a month. In Houston, a working check engine light that goes out after startup is required for the annual inspection sticker in the front window.
Furthermore the NHSTA required tire pressure sensors are a maintenance boondoggle. The wires get snagged off the pickup, the sensors quit working at about 8 years, cost $100 each!@#$%%^&^&* There is almost no way to roll a cobalt, but because a lot of people drove SUV's way too fast with flat tires, I have to pay for this $1000 nightmare. When the tire pressure system has a problem, you are not allowed to see how far you've driven since the last fillup.
And the bodies won't resist a tractor trailer rear ender, I've seen a full sized Buick about 8" tall after a rear end accident on I-65. The crash star ratings are compared to a vehicle of THE SAME SIZE which is a complete fraud. The drunks and vapor huffers are always driving mega pickups or SUV's. And the **** airbags would blow out what high frequency cilia I have left in my ears if I did get caught in an accident. I don't even want to RIDE in an American car.
So if a bought a car, say a supercab pickup costing $35000, my cost would be $3500 a year or $1.50 a mile. Complete waste of money.
If I have to die after being rear-ended, let it be in a $3000 electric bicycle that meets nearly no regulations. I'm even allowed 1000 W, a throttle, and ~25 mph if I install the kit myself. If I need to move furniture I'll rent a U-haul. I'm not buying another car pickup or SUV.
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Nobody ever wants to hear this but the absolute worst thing you can do for the environment is have children. A man living to age 76 will produce about 24,320 lbs. (11,030 kg) of poop over his lifetime, and a woman living to age 81 would produce about 25,920 lbs. (11,757 kg) — so a lifetime of a woman's poop weighs about as much as three adult male hippos. Not to mention how many gallons of gasoline a person will use over a lifetime, How many gallons of fresh water? etc. etc. I find it amusing to see the soccer moms with 5 kids bragging that they are "Green" , recycling their trash and driving hybrid autos thinking they are great defenders of the environment.
Hmmm, I've put tape over the Check Engine light in the past. Problem solved. Tire pressure sensors? I have this thing called a "tire gauge" that works great. I use it frequently. I do worry about rust and problems from the stuff now sprayed on our highways. Oh well, the "sand" they used to use cracked many a windshield.
Mr. Coffee, when gas goes up to $10/gallon, I would expect your area's tourist based economy to crash. I also don't envy the sick people who will be riding the bus 30 miles or more to get to the doctor and waiting for the bus to take them home. I guess it will make that valley have even more of an exclusive population than it already does.
Mr. Coffee, when gas goes up to $10/gallon, I would expect your area's tourist based economy to crash. I also don't envy the sick people who will be riding the bus 30 miles or more to get to the doctor and waiting for the bus to take them home. I guess it will make that valley have even more of an exclusive population than it already does.
indianajo
Well-Known Member
Not guilty.
Mr. Coffee
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- A Demented Corner of the North Cascades
Probably the bigger impact of more expensive fuel here would be that the people who commute 100 miles per day for minimum wage jobs wouldn't do so. I've watched how tourist traffic has changed over the years with respect to varying fuel prices. I doubt even $10/gallon gas would impact the tourist business as much as having unbreathable air for the entire month of August did.
D
Deleted member 4210
Guest
FWIW, the link to the article, was more about the fact that it seems the newer generational of young adults, isn't necessarily as prone to 'love' or rather be totally dependent on cars, as much as prior generations. Its refreshing to see it, and thought others who might visit the website might also like to see it. The article did not say ALL millenials hate cars. Nor did it say anything about ebikes, but it did imply that millenials are thinking a little bit differently about transportation than the rest of may have when we were at that age. Many factors go into that decision of course, in these times of very high costs on everything from rent to cars to healthcare to just everyday living. And maybe for them its not about money or expense. Whether it's adding a bike, or an e-bike, or maybe even just a scooter to their daily mix of transportation choices, and if they are able to utilize a 'vehicle' (such as a bike or ebike) that allows them to incorporate some healthful exercise, it seems quite encouraging that they are being mindful of all these things, and maybe they are also being thoughtful about reducing their pollution footprint. If you live in a city with multiple modes of transportation, a bike or ebike that requires very little space to 'park' or store, costs next to nothing in 'fuel', generally does not require much in the way of maintenane or insurance, it seems to me as a 'generation' are making good choices. Honestly though, I dont think it is JUST millenials as a group that are making these choices. Generations in between, even boomers and older, are downsizing in various ways, and maybe going from 2 cars to 1 car is part of that decision, and maybe a bike or an ebike (added to that 1 car as a complement not a full replacement) to be there for more regular errands or trips is the choice, and recreational pursuits too, even if its only when the weather cooperates, its still better overall for more exercise or less pollution, maybe even less congestion if they take trails or back roads, and this is all a positive for America and the globe.
Whats fascinating about an ebike is that it is not an all or nothing choice. It expands the mix of mobility 'tools', and maybe even changes it whereby with having the option of ebikes or other similar EV's, they can maybe keep (1 smaller) car, or an EV, and then rent a second car for really long road trips, and then use the ebike as often as practical.
Maybe they even have an electric scooter too, or moped. Instead of buying two whole fossil fueled cars, someone can buy 1 car, and then quite a few ebikes, bikes, scooters, etrikes, cargo bikes, whatever if you just drop one of the cars and still be money way ahead. And the extra smaller mobility 'tools' can all fit in the space of the garage stall that you vacated, while keeping the other car (maybe even a hybrid SUV) in the other stall.
Its interesting too, that GM is even bothering to get in the game of ebikes with their own brand. Maybe they are looking at a future where they are attempting to be positioned as a one stop shop, for all sorts of (electric ?) mobility vehicles, that go beyond just their bread and butter cars and trucks ? Who knows ? Just an educated guess.
Whats fascinating about an ebike is that it is not an all or nothing choice. It expands the mix of mobility 'tools', and maybe even changes it whereby with having the option of ebikes or other similar EV's, they can maybe keep (1 smaller) car, or an EV, and then rent a second car for really long road trips, and then use the ebike as often as practical.
Maybe they even have an electric scooter too, or moped. Instead of buying two whole fossil fueled cars, someone can buy 1 car, and then quite a few ebikes, bikes, scooters, etrikes, cargo bikes, whatever if you just drop one of the cars and still be money way ahead. And the extra smaller mobility 'tools' can all fit in the space of the garage stall that you vacated, while keeping the other car (maybe even a hybrid SUV) in the other stall.
Its interesting too, that GM is even bothering to get in the game of ebikes with their own brand. Maybe they are looking at a future where they are attempting to be positioned as a one stop shop, for all sorts of (electric ?) mobility vehicles, that go beyond just their bread and butter cars and trucks ? Who knows ? Just an educated guess.
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Happy 18 th birthday kids, I know you were hoping for a new car to get you to uni, but we've been calculating your lifetime poo production and decided to plant some more trees instead.
As for the fresh water - now I'm conflicted. I used to think we were green being on tank water, but now you have me thinking about the enviromental impacts of drinking diluted bird poo. On the one hand we're contributing to biodiversity, but unless we wash the other hand that's a frightening increase in our carbon footprint!
bob armani
Well-Known Member
You all make some very good points on this thread. Especially ones made by Mr. Coffee! He sounds very well researched from his exposure in diverse cultures and economies. I have also traveled outside the country extensively. When you are exposed to different economic infrastructures, you can gauge the comparisons to the economics here in the USA. Well said.
lewes5
Member
It’s interesting that it appears no one responding to the OP likes or enjoys the physical act of driving a car. I do! I’m 75 now and remember the day I got my license. Pure joy. I looked forward, I and still do, to road trips. I enjoy the precision of driving, e.g., correctingly shifting a manual shift, engaging the clutch on an up hill from a stopped position, parallel parking perfectly on the first try, staying off the white inner line when a curve or bend at speed, etc., etc. i could go on and on.
Riding my ebike brings similar, but different joy. For example, as I approach a hill, it’s cool to downshift at exactly the right time to maintain the cadence and momentum. It’s fun to take a twisty trail at speed without losing momentum. (Yes, I do slow down if walkers, joggers or slower bikes are on the trail, but at 6 am, there are few.)
Just my two cents.
Riding my ebike brings similar, but different joy. For example, as I approach a hill, it’s cool to downshift at exactly the right time to maintain the cadence and momentum. It’s fun to take a twisty trail at speed without losing momentum. (Yes, I do slow down if walkers, joggers or slower bikes are on the trail, but at 6 am, there are few.)
Just my two cents.
Manual shift? No hill start assist? What, doesn't your car park itself and have lane assist, stability and traction control with abs and gps tracking alerting the insurance company when you take smooth corners?
I'd been looking into buying a new car so I can tax deduct it in preparation for when my daughter gets her license - I honestly don't want to get inside one of the modern " safe" cars.
bob armani
Well-Known Member
larry-new
Active Member
Loving driving and calling cars boring are not mutually exclusive...I remember driving my Mustang with bike attached to
Rivere-du-Loup, where the sun set behind me and rose in front of me...for a three week bike trek in Quebec, PEI, NB, Newfoundland, and NS... I'm a driving fool, and love it.
OTOH, I rent a small car for a biannual 400 mi. trip, and am rarely impressed by the new cars...lucky I have a Jeep/plow vehicle to get me by otherwise. My ebike, by contrast, is pure joy...
The road, the road...had a maxiscooter before...35k miles...a blast!
Rivere-du-Loup, where the sun set behind me and rose in front of me...for a three week bike trek in Quebec, PEI, NB, Newfoundland, and NS... I'm a driving fool, and love it.
OTOH, I rent a small car for a biannual 400 mi. trip, and am rarely impressed by the new cars...lucky I have a Jeep/plow vehicle to get me by otherwise. My ebike, by contrast, is pure joy...
The road, the road...had a maxiscooter before...35k miles...a blast!
