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Deleted member 4210
Guest
A super way to loose any ebike 'Momentum' you have gained.
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Deleted member 4210
Guest
Lol. Sure buddy. Whatever you say.TEENY TINY ! And btw you need a new scale. Wind resistance has FAR more impact than the miniscule weight difference between a 375 watthour and 500 watthour battery. A 500 watthour battery that will get you 70 miles of range, or in your language 112 km,when it has the right motor on it, with tons of torque and proper programming and firmware that has zero bugs. Ever.
Perhaps I could have said that better - I question why I need to carry ALL of my 3.5 kg battery? Then I could have checked scales and realised it's 3.45 kg.
Tossing that focus around was a revelation , it was only a couple or kg lighter than my giant but MUCH nicer in the air. Bigger isn't always better
pmcdonald
Well-Known Member
Are things okay Mike? It's not like you to come into the Giant forum and pick fights.
I read somewhere the decision to move to smaller batteries was the result of market testing user applications [citation needed].
Given Giants lower price points compared to the other name brands I'm sure the cheaper battery cost didn't hurt their profit margins either.
I'd be curious how many users deplete their batteries per ride (I come nowhere near it - my 500wh battery is peace of mind I'll likely never call on). I'll have a stab that the enthusiast riders here aren't representative, but I'm pulling that assertion out of thin air. Plus for those of us in the non-Class 3 world 25 or 32 km/h will net substantially better range.
The biggest downside to smaller batteries IMO is increased charge cycles and added strain on the battery. You're less likely to adhere to the 80-20 rule with a smaller battery.
Having said that I don't expect to see many of the current crop of ebikes still on the road in 5 years time. My BH certainly didn't make the distance.
I read somewhere the decision to move to smaller batteries was the result of market testing user applications [citation needed].
Given Giants lower price points compared to the other name brands I'm sure the cheaper battery cost didn't hurt their profit margins either.
I'd be curious how many users deplete their batteries per ride (I come nowhere near it - my 500wh battery is peace of mind I'll likely never call on). I'll have a stab that the enthusiast riders here aren't representative, but I'm pulling that assertion out of thin air. Plus for those of us in the non-Class 3 world 25 or 32 km/h will net substantially better range.
The biggest downside to smaller batteries IMO is increased charge cycles and added strain on the battery. You're less likely to adhere to the 80-20 rule with a smaller battery.
Having said that I don't expect to see many of the current crop of ebikes still on the road in 5 years time. My BH certainly didn't make the distance.
Stefan Mikes
Gravel e-biker
- Region
- Europe
- City
- Mazovia, PL
I do. I was on a ride in the (Polish) Holy Cross Mountains on the Trance E+ with the 500 Wh battery and realised I wouldn't make 50 km on that since the battery charge was disappearing instantly on the climbs. And it was the Class 1 e-MTB with PAS 2 on. I was on a 60 km ride in the forests (on the flat), same bike, same battery and the Giant AUTO mode on -- to return on pedals-only in a torrential rain.
I have bought the 625 Wh Giant battery since, feel more secure, and still prefer carrying a spare battery when on a longer ride. I might consider a Specialized SL e-bike with the small battery but I would invest in the range extender and ride rather slowly.
P.S. I need to add the price of the EnergyPak Smart 625 beat already expensive Specialized UI-600... The price was insane.
pmcdonald
Well-Known Member
I know you do Stefan! I'm just curious what proportion of Giant ebikes use what proportion of battery per ride. (I really need to find that link about market research...)
It's an open ended hypothetical question: why put a larger better in a bike if 90% of your users aren't needing it? To cater for the minority that do? Because everyone else is? To engage in a battery arms race? No skin in the game (I have a nice big 500Wh battey after all), just throwing some counter arguments out there.
It's an open ended hypothetical question: why put a larger better in a bike if 90% of your users aren't needing it? To cater for the minority that do? Because everyone else is? To engage in a battery arms race? No skin in the game (I have a nice big 500Wh battey after all), just throwing some counter arguments out there.
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iskjone
Active Member
I think some influence to battery size is tied to shipping and storage of Li-ion batteries. Especially in a world wide market and you need to ship air freight. Technology breakthrough beyond this generation of batteries will improve range but how much is enough? For me the eBike manufacturers have already hit that range.
RandallS
Well-Known Member
- Region
- Canada
- City
- Calgary
Well I'm not sure about Giants decision in regards to smaller batteries.
In Canada, the 2020 Stance (only one model available) has a 400wh battery, but according to the US site, 2021 Stance is available with a 625 wh battery (2 models available). I can't compare 2020 with 2021 on the Canadian site as they are not listing any 2021 e-bikes yet.
Perhaps there's a rethink going on at Giant headquarters in regards to battery capacities?
Nova Haibike
Well-Known Member
10-15 miles is about as far as most people ride. Maybe a bit more for those with an e-bike. While a bigger battery is "better," the battery should be sufficient for those folks.
jabberwocky
Well-Known Member
I would deplete the battery on my Revolt E on all my longer loops, but I find the extender adds enough to cover 98% of my rides.
The 375whr battery was my biggest hangup buying the bike, but after most of a year and thousands of miles, its less of an issue than expected. Or, at least, a 500whr battery wouldn't really change things. My shorter (during the week) loops are 25 miles max, which 375whr covers fine. My longer loops are usually around 50, which 500whr wouldn't cover either. Main+extender (615whr) covers most of my rides. I have an extra main to cover really long rides, but since getting the extender I think I've only done that a handful of times.
More battery is always a plus, but it comes at a cost (in dollars and weight). I find Giant is at least reasonably priced; I paid less for my Revolt+extender than I would have for, say, a Cannondale Topstone.
The 375whr battery was my biggest hangup buying the bike, but after most of a year and thousands of miles, its less of an issue than expected. Or, at least, a 500whr battery wouldn't really change things. My shorter (during the week) loops are 25 miles max, which 375whr covers fine. My longer loops are usually around 50, which 500whr wouldn't cover either. Main+extender (615whr) covers most of my rides. I have an extra main to cover really long rides, but since getting the extender I think I've only done that a handful of times.
More battery is always a plus, but it comes at a cost (in dollars and weight). I find Giant is at least reasonably priced; I paid less for my Revolt+extender than I would have for, say, a Cannondale Topstone.
Coolbob
Well-Known Member
I was concerned about the 375wh capacity when shopping for my eBike, but every bike has compromises and I really liked everything else about the Giant/Momentum bikes so I got one.
I've put about 350 miles on my Momentum Transend E+ over the past couple of months, almost all on pavement and in 'Auto' mode. I seem to be getting more and more distance as time goes by. Are the batteries breaking in, are my legs getting stronger, maybe the hills are eroding?
My rides tend to be between 8 and 20 miles so I can get several rides per charge. Typically, I ride till battery anxiety kicks in (one light remaining) and then recharge to 80-90% just before my next ride. I've been using the Giant Ride Control app for every ride and based on the percentage of charge used for miles covered, I would estimate max battery range to be about 40-45 miles when the bike was new. Lately it seems like the max battery range for me is closer to 50-55 miles.
I've put about 350 miles on my Momentum Transend E+ over the past couple of months, almost all on pavement and in 'Auto' mode. I seem to be getting more and more distance as time goes by. Are the batteries breaking in, are my legs getting stronger, maybe the hills are eroding?
My rides tend to be between 8 and 20 miles so I can get several rides per charge. Typically, I ride till battery anxiety kicks in (one light remaining) and then recharge to 80-90% just before my next ride. I've been using the Giant Ride Control app for every ride and based on the percentage of charge used for miles covered, I would estimate max battery range to be about 40-45 miles when the bike was new. Lately it seems like the max battery range for me is closer to 50-55 miles.
iskjone
Active Member
Signs of reversal with Giant's direction in the downsizing batteries. I notice that 2021 FastRoad EX is outfitted with a larger 500wh battery with a 250wh extender battery. (The 2020 model was 375wh.) In addition the 2021 Stance is available with a whopping 624wh battery. I think Giant heard all the noise and made some adjustments.
Nova Haibike
Well-Known Member
They are adjusting to who they think are the buyers. The Momentum bikes are for more casual riders, so smaller battery. Commuter bikes like the FastRoad or enthusiast FS mountain bikes get bigger batteries and extender option.
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