Which Turbo Vado?

[Stefan Mikes]

Vado 5.0 (Class 3), Turbo Mode only, 604 Wh Battery Range

Here is the outcome (the distance is in kilometres):

So, the range of Vado 5.0 (Class 3) ridden in Turbo Mode only, with the UI-600 battery, in the flatland, tarmac, with a 200 lb rider, almost no stops, moderate wind (cancelled by riding a loop), summertime, is 43.3 km or 27 mi. Any deviation from these parameters such as heavier rider, any significant hills, strong headwind, cold temperature, frequent city stops, harder terrain, etc., will adversely affect the range.

Note: The test was conducted between 100% and 5% of battery charge. Below 5%, the bike goes into a standard Eco Mode until 3% is reached and no more pedal assistance is provided.

It was a pleasure to make this test for you! The photo taken at 8.35 a.m. on July 22nd, 2020 (my birthday).

 

[Sierratim]

Vado 5.0 (Class 3), Turbo Mode only, 604 Wh Battery Range

Here is the outcome (the distance is in kilometres):
View attachment 59713

So, the range of Vado 5.0 (Class 3) ridden in Turbo Mode only, with the UI-600 battery, in the flatland, with a 200 lb rider, almost no stops, moderate wind (cancelled by riding a loop), summertime, is 43.3 km or 27 mi. Any deviation from these parameters such as heavier rider, any significant hills, strong headwind, cold temperature, frequent city stops, etc., will adversely affect the range.

Note: The test was conducted between 100% and 5% of battery charge. Below 5%, the bike goes into a standard Eco Mode until 3% is reached and no more pedal assistance is provided.

View attachment 59715

It was a pleasure to make this test for you! The photo taken at 8.35 a.m. on July 22nd, 2020 (my birthday).

Happy Bitrhday, Stefan!

Ride On!

 

[Papa G]

Vado 5.0 (Class 3), Turbo Mode only, 604 Wh Battery Range

Here is the outcome (the distance is in kilometres):
View attachment 59713

So, the range of Vado 5.0 (Class 3) ridden in Turbo Mode only, with the UI-600 battery, in the flatland, tarmac, with a 200 lb rider, almost no stops, moderate wind (cancelled by riding a loop), summertime, is 43.3 km or 27 mi. Any deviation from these parameters such as heavier rider, any significant hills, strong headwind, cold temperature, frequent city stops, harder terrain, etc., will adversely affect the range.

Note: The test was conducted between 100% and 5% of battery charge. Below 5%, the bike goes into a standard Eco Mode until 3% is reached and no more pedal assistance is provided.

View attachment 59715

It was a pleasure to make this test for you! The photo taken at 8.35 a.m. on July 22nd, 2020 (my birthday).

Thanks Stephan, Happy Birthday. Great test and great information. Must have been a pleasurable ride in Turbo mode? Does your Vado have the 1.3 or the 1.2 motor? Wonder if that might affect the outcome slightly?

 

[Stefan Mikes]

It is the 1.2s, the 72 Nm torque, 520 W max power (Brose TF) motor optimized for fast riding. The Turbo mode ride was too pleasant! No effort at all. I rode the first 20 km without even stopping (except of the junctions) and against cold headwind. I guess if I were commuting to work, I would be fresh after the ride. It was as if I rode a motorcycle!
----------

Here is an old, long forgotten marketing text of Specialized about the Vado 6.0 (2018):

"For the Vado 6.0, we developed a custom 600 Wh battery that seamlessly integrates into the frame, is lockable, and easily removable for simplified charging.

Thanks to the battery, the motor can assist the rider up to 80 km (50 mi) in Eco mode, up to 56 km (35 mi) in the Sport mode, and up to 40 km (25 mi) in Turbo mode. These are of course estimated values for the total weight of the rider and the bike of 110 kg (240 lbs) riding on the flat with weak wind.

In other words, and with the maximum speed of 45 km/h (28 mph) there's plenty of juice to take you to and from work, a trip to the grocery store, or even to that new café on the other side of the city."

/This text has been translated from Polish, and the original text had been translated from English to Polish/. (The text was referring to old default Eco and Sport modes that were set to higher assistance levels than it happens nowadays. The Turbo mode has always been 100/100).

Now, Specialized offer the Turbo Range Calculator that seems to be very optimistic...
---------

The type of the motor would affect the climbing ability, acceleration and, to some extent, the efficiency. Of course there is nothing like a fixed, predictable battery range. Yet, in my neighbourhood in the summer and on-road, I know I can afford riding for 40 km in Turbo mode when I need it. I typically only ride last 10 km in Turbo mode at the end of one of my "marathons"

 

[Papa G]

It is the 1.2s, the 72 Nm torque, 520 W max power (Brose TF) motor optimized for fast riding. The Turbo mode ride was too pleasant! No effort at all. I rode the first 20 km without even stopping (except of the junctions) and against cold headwind. I guess if I were commuting to work, I would be fresh after the ride. It was as if I rode a motorcycle!
----------

Here is an old, long forgotten marketing text of Specialized about the Vado 6.0 (2018):

"For the Vado 6.0, we developed a custom 600 Wh battery that seamlessly integrates into the frame, is lockable, and easily removable for simplified charging.

Thanks to the battery, the motor can assist the rider up to 80 km (50 mi) in Eco mode, up to 56 km (35 mi) in the Sport mode, and up to 40 km (25 mi) in Turbo mode. These are of course estimated values for the total weight of the rider and the bike of 110 kg (240 lbs) riding on the flat with weak wind.

In other words, and with the maximum speed of 45 km/h (28 mph) there's plenty of juice to take you to and from work, a trip to the grocery store, or even to that new café on the other side of the city."

/This text has been translated from Polish, and the original text had been translated from English to Polish/. (The text was referring to old default Eco and Sport modes that were set to higher assistance levels than it happens nowadays. The Turbo mode has always been 100/100).

Now, Specialized offer the Turbo Range Calculator that seems to be very optimistic...
---------

The type of the motor would affect the climbing ability, acceleration and, to some extent, the efficiency. Of course there is nothing like a fixed, predictable battery range. Yet, in my neighbourhood in the summer and on-road, I know I can afford riding for 40 km in Turbo mode when I need it. I typically only ride last 10 km in Turbo mode at the end of one of my "marathons"

@Stephan Mikes: Yes, the range is probably not affected much if you ran the same test riding the 1.2 motor or the 1.3 motor at the same speed, same conditions, the motor efficiency is probably very similar? Maybe would take slightly more human effort on the 1.2 (at least that's what I tell my wife when we ride together).

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Perhaps, Papa but even the 1.2E motor is very strong when put in Turbo mode.
Note: The slower you ride, the longer range you get. The aero drag eats electrons dramatically.

 

[Papa G]

Perhaps, Papa but even the 1.2E motor is very strong when put in Turbo mode.
Note: The slower you ride, the longer range you get. The aero drag eats electrons dramatically.

Hi Stephan: Does the US version of the 2020 Vado 4.0 have the 1.2 motor or the 1.2e motor? Court’s specs on the U.S. 2020 vado 4.0 EBR review shows:

MOTOR BRAND:
Brose T, (Specialized Turbo 1.2), 120 RPM Max Support
MOTOR TYPE:
Mid-Mounted Geared Motor
Learn more about Ebike motors
MOTOR NOMINAL OUTPUT:
250 watts
MOTOR PEAK OUTPUT:
520 watts
MOTOR TORQUE:
72 Newton meters

The US Specialized website also shows the motor listed as 1.2, not 1.2e?

I think all of the U.S. spec’d Turbo Vados are Class 3 - 28 mph speed pedelecs, so likely have the 1.2 (72 nm) or the 1.3 (90 nm)?

 

[Stefan Mikes]

It is exactly the 1.2, or Brose T motor. Here is the listing of all Brose e-bike motors with Specialized code-names:

Brose Motor Name	Specialized motor code-name	Found in Turbo e-bike model	Purpose (as declared by Brose)	Max Power [W]	Assist %	Torque [Nm]
C (alu)	1.2e	Vado 3.0	Low-speed city bikes, efficiency-priority, Walk assist.	415	280	50
T (alu)	1.2	Vado 4.0	Trekking bikes, less efficient than the C model. Walk Assist	520	320	70 (or 72 or 85 depending on the data source)
TF (alu)	1.2s	Vado 6.0 (EU only)	Speed commuter e-bikes, low efficiency. Extra start assist up to 20 km/h. No Walk assist.	520	320	85
S (alu) (There is a confusion as it presumably is both MTB and Speed motor, depending on tuning)	1.3	Vado 5.0	MTB & Speed e-bikes, better efficiency than TF. Walk Assist.	550	380	90
S (mag)	2.1	Levo (since 2019)	MTB, lightweight	560	380	90

The information found in different sources differs very much. I suspect the 1.2 motor has more torque than 70 or 72 Nm, with the 85 Nm figure which I saw in some Brose chart presented once by @PaD.

Note: Actual power drawn from the battery differs from the delivered motor power. Once, my Vado with the 1.2s motor must have produced the 520 W power when I was mashing uphill in Turbo mode. Mission Control -> Diagnostics -> Battery reported 18 A current at 37 V (666 W). Efficiency = 520 / 666 = 0.78 or 78%.

 

[TS25]

It is exactly the 1.2, or Brose T motor. Here is the listing of all Brose e-bike motors with Specialized code-names:

Brose Motor Name	Specialized motor code-name	Found in Turbo e-bike model	Purpose (as declared by Brose)	Max Power [W]	Assist %	Torque [Nm]
C (alu)	1.2e	Vado 3.0	Low-speed city bikes, efficiency-priority, Walk assist.	no guess	280	50
T (alu)	1.2	Vado 4.0	Trekking bikes, less efficient than the C model. Walk Assist	520	320	70 (or 72 or 85 depending on the data source)
TF (alu)	1.2s	Vado 6.0 (EU only)	Speed commuter e-bikes, low efficiency. Extra start assist up to 20 km/h. No Walk assist.	520	380	90
S (alu) (There is a confusion as it presumably is both MTB and Speed motor, depending on tuning)	1.3	Vado 5.0	MTB & Speed e-bikes, better efficiency than TF. Walk Assist.	550	380	90
S (mag)	2.1	Levo (since 2019)	MTB, lightweight	560	380	90

The information found in different sources differs very much. I suspect the 1.2 motor has more torque than 70 or 72 Nm, with the 85 Nm figure which I saw in some Brose chart presented once by @PaD.

Happy birthday Stefan and enjoy your year before being invited to the club of old sacks (by me).

The Brose T (1.2) in the Vado 4.0 came out originally with 85 Nm. After complaints about reach the range the torque was reduced by software to gain more efficiency.

Guess why I didn't have firmware-updates made since spring 19.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

You mean "complaints about the range", TS25?
Now all is more clear once you have explained the changes to the 1.2.

 

[TS25]

You mean "complaints about the range", TS25?

Yes, sorry,
you caught me being sloppy ("in a hurry").
I've corrected it.

max. power for the 1.2e ist 415W, according to the source I had linked here:

Specialized Turbo Vado/Como/Tero/Tero X User Club

Picked up my Como 5.0 on Saturday. Didn’t really fit in my rack very securely (Kuat Transfer 2), so I ended up putting it inside my car for my 6 hour drive back home. I am in love! I picked up an 18” pizza today and used bungees to strap the box to the pizza rack. Worked great! I’m looking for...

electricbikereview.com

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Thank you, TS!

 

[Stefan Mikes]

@TS25,

This table gives even more confusing data, especially for the TF motor. Source:

Product

Brose eBike drive units are perfect collaborations on the highest level of the mechanical components, software and the individual biker.

www.brose-ebike.com

 

[Papa G]

@TS25,

This table gives even more confusing data, especially for the TF motor. Source:

Product

Brose eBike drive units are perfect collaborations on the highest level of the mechanical components, software and the individual biker.

www.brose-ebike.com

View attachment 59815

Thanks Stephan and TS25: A lot to digest here. Glad to confirm the 2020 Vado 4.0 has the Stronger 1.2 motor, not the 1.2e. If the motor hardware is the same, wonder if my 1.2 motor could be reprogrammed to the higher 85nm of the 1.2S? I’d consider getting a 604 watt battery if the torque could be increased, and keep the 504 watt battery as a reserve for longer rides.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

When you have the UI-600 battery, just increase the Assist and Max Motor Power in Mission Control, PapaG. That will do. If you need to ride up steep hills, just downshift and pedal faster. You'll be adding your own torque to already powerful motor!

 

[Papa G]

When you have the UI-600 battery, just increase the Assist and Max Motor Power in Mission Control, PapaG. That will do. If you need to ride up steep hills, just downshift and pedal faster. You'll be adding your own torque to already powerful motor!

Thanks. Just wondering, Sounds good. I don’t have any issues with the power. We have a lot of hills where we ride. Rode the paved portions of the El Dorado trail near Placerville, CA last weekend. An 11.5 mile out and 11.5 mile back. About 8 miles uphill (3% to 6% grades) going out to the east, no issues. Both Vados did great.

 

[Law]

Good info here ty.

But reinforces any idea to not buy until motor is sorted as I live on east coast. Sounds like Brose/ Specialized needs another year to get it right.

In the meantime probably going to get the bulls iconic speed, if it ever gets here.

 

[GuruUno]

Good info here ty.

But reinforces any idea to not buy until motor is sorted as I live on east coast. Sounds like Brose/ Specialized needs another year to get it right.

In the meantime probably going to get the bulls iconic speed, if it ever gets here.

It is already here, see:

Bulls ICONIC EVO TR 1 SPEED | Propel Electric Bikes |

Bulls ICONIC EVO TR 1 SPEED, Developed on the basis of a powerful e-mountain bike, the ICONIC EVO TR 1 Speed offers high speed sporty comfort for all trips and treks. Whether it’s a daily commute or an e-bike tour over varying surfaces - with its powerful full suspension, this confident...

propelbikes.com

.

 

[Law]

I ordered the bike in May it’s not here but I did order the 54 cm

 

[psimkins]

FIND ME THAT GOOD LBS FOR SPECIALIZED THEN....PLEASE, as of yet, i've not found one that meets my level of needs.

I deal with Bicycle Escape in Frederick, MD and they are excellent!