Where is the problem located at?

[PCeBiker]

No judgment, but why?

TT

Well,.. he is the reloader but 125 pounds is A Lot of ammo.

Actually @Nvreloader weighs 200 pounds and the bike is rated for 330, so there really shouldn't be a problem.

He does go on hunting trips and carries LOTS of cargo.

 

[Tars Tarkas]

Well,.. he is the reloader but 125 pounds is A Lot of ammo.

Roughly 2000 shells. It would take me a while to go through that many shells, but okay....

TT

 

[PCeBiker]

It was just weight for testing, like in the video.

The part of the video that stood out for me was how 10 pounds on the back would cause a wobble on almost every bike.

Keep in mind that @Nvreloader 's Wart Hog doesn't wobble no matter how he loads it or where he puts the weight.

 

[PCeBiker]

Actually @Nvreloader weighs 200 pounds and the bike is rated for 330, so there really shouldn't be a problem.

I suppose to be fair,. a bike referring to a maximun load of 330 pounds is referring mostly to the weight of the rider.

A 100 pound rider with 230 pounds of cargo is quite different.
(Maybe if you put the weight in a backpack? The guy in the video didn't try that.)

 

[PCeBiker]

Another thing about the video is that 10-12 pounds of weight on the front wheel almost eliminated all the wobbles, but it was a hub motor as a weight which is down low. (And the sprung vs. unsprung thing.)

I have a frame mounted front basket, and carrying the battery up front made little difference with my wobble.

I'm thinking fork mounted panniers might be a good idea, especially if they're filled with the dense heavy stuff?

 

[PCeBiker]

As a follow up to this handle bar shimmy/shaking problem,
here is some info on what I found via this test.

I had 125#'s of bagged lead shotgun pellets, 25#'s per bag.

I'd suggest repeating your experiment with your Warthog and 100#'s of weight (the load limit of the Warthog) and see if it has a shimmy, then tell Biktrix about your test and see what they have to say.

 

[Nvreloader]

No judgment, but why?

TT

TT
I am a Reloader of any type of center fire cartridges for rifle/pistol or shot gun shells, the local sporting good store had a sale on bagged #6 & 9 shot size, so I bought enough (1 ton @ $15.00 p/25 lb) to last me and the family (8) shooters, for a while etc.
I only have 8-9 bags of shot left after less than 10 yrs of shooting. The average price of a 25# bag is upwards of $75.00 or more, now.
ymmv

 

[Nvreloader]

TT
There is 7000 grains p/lb of shot, the average load for a 12 ga shot shell is 437 grains per shell, an average of 400+ shells per 25# bag,
It don't take long to go thru 400 shells, when bird hunting, and informal trap/clay bird shooting eats ammo lol.......
I love the smell of gun powder........
Tia

 

[PCeBiker]

No judgment, but why?

TT

@Nvreloader goes on long distance hunting trips where there is no cell phone reception, so he needs to bring everything necessary for self recovery if something goes wrong.

 

[Nvreloader]

Thanks Guys
I plan on testing both bikes some more.
I also have frame mounted front baskets and the rear baskets are bolted on the bike's rear racks.

The max loads for the bikes includes the riders weight, so a 330# max load weight - 200#'s for the rider, leaves 125 #'s max load
carried on the bike.

The following are always carried on the bike,
while riding away from home:
Main pack w/survival gear is 30#'s (all items have been weighed),
Tool/bike parts pack = 20#'s
3.0L water/pack = 10 #'s
Security cables/locks = 5#'s

More info later, Thanks all.

 

[PCeBiker]

The max loads for the bikes includes the riders weight, so a 330# max load weight - 200#'s for the rider, leaves 125 #'s max load

I think that your Warthog has a 300# capacity, unless this isn't your exact year and model?

 

[PCeBiker]

:
Main pack w/survival gear is 30#'s (all items have been weighed),
Tool/bike parts pack = 20#'s
3.0L water/pack = 10 #'s
Security cables/locks = 5#'s

You might want to consider carrying a new tube and tire, patch kit, Slime/Flatout/Stan's ect., air pump, tire irons and tire boot, if you don't already have that with you.

 

[Tars Tarkas]

I love the smell of gun powder........

I guess you must! Thanks for the explanation. Still seems like a lot of lead to me.

TT

 

[Nvreloader]

PC
I have all that in the packs + along with a couple of water straws/mt plastic jugs that fit the water straws, so I can carry more water if/when needed.
A couple MT House meals freeze dried to be used with H20, along with my diabetic supplies/first aid kit etc.
Plus my P-30/2-30rd mags, Swiss Army knife, US Army signal mirror with an attached P-38, just in case. ymmv

 

[Nvreloader]

Guys
This AM, I finished up loading/unloading the WH, the same way and road conditions as I did the Juggs 4 bike, and the WH never even whimpered, no problems found or noted.
Yes, I could feel the weight, but it didn't cause the headaches like the Juggs 4 did.
IMHO, I think the CG for load carrying, is off for the Juggs 4 bike.

I did find this bit of info out, and reading more about it. https://canecreek.com/product/hellbender-70-visco/

Keith 69 Thank you,
That video, just confirmed what I was thinking about
as little as 10#'s caused headaches.
Thanks all,

 

[PCeBiker]

,.. the WH never even whimpered, no problems found or noted.
,.. it didn't cause the headaches like the Juggs 4 did.

I did find this bit of info out, and reading more about it. https://canecreek.com/product/hellbender-70-visco/

The following are always carried on the bike,
while riding away from home:
Main pack w/survival gear is 30#'s (all items have been weighed),
Tool/bike parts pack = 20#'s
3.0L water/pack = 10 #'s
Security cables/locks = 5#'s

Can you at least carry the 65#'s of gear without any shimmy?

You bought a relatively expensive new ebike with the expectation that it could easily do what your Warthog did.

If you need to do all kinds of expensive upgrades to your Juggernaut to stop the shimmy, then I don't think that's acceptable?

The guy in the video said the first thing to do to correct a shimmy, is to just keep your hands on the handlebars, but it sounds like your Juggernaut will go out of control and throw you off your bike even with your hands on the handlebars and no where near the load limit.

It shouldn't be up to you to spend time, money and effort fixing a problem that shouldn't be there in the first place.

I did manage to get my ebike to almost completely stop shaking, but I had to be riding no-hands to get a shimmy.

I think that you should talk to Biktrix and bitch up a storm.
That's just not acceptable.

Maybe they can exchange it for a different model or something that they have actually load tested to see how it handles.

Heavy duty, cargo, and hunting bikes are supposed to be designed to carry loads without throwing you off your bike.

If the Juggernaut can't carry 65#'s without a dangerous shimmy that will cause an accident, then that should be clearly stated it the advertisement of the ebike.

Maybe you should just let it crash and then sue them?


And, IIRC,..
I think that you said that you may be hauling a deer back home with you after a hunting trip?

It would suck if you have to leave your expensive new ebike at home and ride your Warthog whenever you are going big game hunting.

 

[Nvreloader]

Can you at least carry the 65#'s of gear without any shimmy?

PC,
I don't know yet,
I have been rearranging the 2 main packs, tools/survival to get most of the weight possible into the tool pack, which will fit into the front basket. The survival pack has to go into the rear basket, too bulky/big for the front basket..

The water camel pack (10#'s) can be also carried in the front basket, I will have to extend the drinking hose about 2', which is no problem, anything in the front basket has to be small enough to allow the handlebars to turn, as I have a frame mounted Front basket. I am hoping I will be able to carry required gear etc.
Still testing all the options.

You bought a relatively expensive new ebike with the expectation that it could easily do what your Warthog did.
If you need to do all kinds of expensive upgrades to your Juggernaut to stop the shimmy, then I don't think that's acceptable?
The guy in the video said the first thing to do to correct a shimmy, is to just keep your hands on the handlebars, but it sounds like your Juggernaut will go out of control and throw you off your bike even with your hands on the handlebars and no where near the load limit.

The most violent shaking/shimmying was when I loaded the 125# in the rear basket, I was over the bikes weight limit by 25#'s, which is 300#'s total = 200 #'s for my fat butt = 100#'s left for the weight to be carried by the bike.
As I transferred the weight forward to the front basket, the shaking/shimmying was reduce with every 25#'s moved. The maximum weight allowed for each basket is 35#'s IIRR.

I went home and dropped off all the weight bags except for 1, which was kept in the front basket, along with the bikes security cables/locks (5#'s) which were in the front basket.
With the 30#'s up front, the ride/shaking/shimmying was cancelled out enough that I could ride hands free (I am not that good at this riding trick).
This juggs bike has ALWAYS had a very lite/quick steering as compared to the WH, even with both sets of tires are filled to within 5#'s of the max psi for the tires.

It shouldn't be up to you to spend time, money and effort fixing a problem that shouldn't be there in the first place.
I did manage to get my ebike to almost completely stop shaking, but I had to be riding no-hands to get a shimmy.
I think that you should talk to Biktrix and bitch up a storm.
That's just not acceptable.
Maybe they can exchange it for a different model or something that they have actually load tested to see how it handles.
Heavy duty, cargo, and hunting bikes are supposed to be designed to carry loads without throwing you off your bike.
If the Juggernaut can't carry 65#'s without a dangerous shimmy that will cause an accident, then that should be clearly stated it the advertisement of the ebike. Maybe you should just let it crash and then sue them?

I don't think the Juggs 4 bike is rated as a HD Cargo/Hunting bike,
I bought this semi HD bike as general purpose riding bike so it could be taken off road/trail riding, if needed, and for the better half when she wants to ride etc.

And, IIRC,..

I think that you said that you may be hauling a deer back home with you after a hunting trip?
It would suck if you have to leave your expensive new ebike at home and ride your Warthog whenever you are going big game hunting.

The WH is the pack mule, if I ever draw a tag again, the WH will be the bike used along with a HD single wheel trailer for packing the quarters etc.
I don't play games like that...
Thanks, ymmv