Trail Cruiser
Well-Known Member
How much watt-hr is your battery?
What's your range ?
- Thread starter VirgilCaine
- Start date
How much watt-hr is your battery?
Bruce Arnold
Well-Known Member
835Wh.
TAZMANIMAN
Active Member
We have 2 xtreme Sedona 48v 10ah mountain bikes. Rear 500w Bafang hub drive with 5 levels of assist and a thumb throttle. Bikes weigh 55 lbs and I am about 140 lbs maybe 145 if I Carry some loose change! Anyhow we just took a 32 mile trip on mostly level gravel and stone trails and used mostly assist level 1. We averaged between 9-11 mph. We did use the thumb throttle assist on some road crossings and as a boost up a couple of hills. It should also be noted that I have Muscular Dystrophy so I do rely a little more on the power boost, a little more than the average Joe. When we finished our meters had 3 out of 5 bars used up so only 2 bars left however if you push the test button on the battery itself then it still has 3 out of 4 bars available. I'm pretty sure we could push to the 50 mile range.
Citycrosser
Active Member
YES! As an emissions and fuel economy testing expert, I can't agree more. The industry desperately needs some sort of standard like the EPA drive cycle tests or the World Harmonized Test Procedure (now in use in Europe and elsewhere).
What we need is a simple dyno that can simulate road load along with a drive motor connected to the pedals to simulate a person. One of the difficulties lies in determining the road load coefficients, which, for cars, used to be done based on weight of the vehicle, but is now done with a road load coast down. The road load coastdown can be costly but necessary as we all know the difference the tires can make in drag (think wide vs. skinny tires), so using a simple weight table won't work. If the e-bike has any cogging, or resistance while coasting, the coast down method gets even more complicated.
Other issues to sort out are how much the "person" motor contributes and what cadence they pedal at, what gear(s) to use, what the drive cycle should be, etc. There are also some issues that come about when the the motor is in the front wheel as one now needs a more complicated dyno. Assumptions could be made and these issues standardized so that all e-bikes are tested the same way in a temperature controlled environment.
I've spoken to a few independent test labs in the U.S. but no one is interested in developing this test method without some sort of industry backing. Since there is no overall regulating body, no one is setting the test method, so no one wants to stick their neck out to be the first. I do feel like if somebody were to develop a reputable test and get it off the ground, the industry would be interested in using it. I just need $50k or so to make it happen!
Rider: 180lbs (bike is ~60lbs, so 240-250lbs total)
Bike: 1980s 26" chromoly Diamondback MTB with MX3006 hub + Phaserunner kit from Grin Tech
Battery: 52v 6Ah Mighty Mini from Luna Cycles (30Q cells)
Power: usually 50-300 watts typically, though I can go up to 1000w (capped to 20A for battery safety)
Speed: Usually ~20mph around town
Terrain: Mostly flat so far (see end note)
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Cycling around town (flat-ish, 20mph), I get around 8 Wh/mi net average, maybe closer to 9-10Wh/mi for longer trips, so that 6Ah battery gets me pretty far. I haven't actually run it to anywhere near empty yet, longest trip was 19 miles so far.
My PAS configuration is a bit unusual - it's setup to give the most assist at slower speeds (e.g. hills and acceleration), and less assist (all the way to zero in some cases) the faster I pedal. It should work a lot better once I have a torque sensor installed, but it encourages putting out efficient human power while cruising.
I don't own a car and cycled everywhere even before the e-bike, so my leg strength may be higher than many here even though I'm not really in shape otherwise.
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I also have many steep mountain roads near me, which obviously use a *lot* more power, but I've already realized I need a bigger battery for them so I don't have a lot of good numbers there yet. I know it can handle them, just burns through a lot of power (though I get a lot back from regen too on the downslope).
Bike: 1980s 26" chromoly Diamondback MTB with MX3006 hub + Phaserunner kit from Grin Tech
Battery: 52v 6Ah Mighty Mini from Luna Cycles (30Q cells)
Power: usually 50-300 watts typically, though I can go up to 1000w (capped to 20A for battery safety)
Speed: Usually ~20mph around town
Terrain: Mostly flat so far (see end note)
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Cycling around town (flat-ish, 20mph), I get around 8 Wh/mi net average, maybe closer to 9-10Wh/mi for longer trips, so that 6Ah battery gets me pretty far. I haven't actually run it to anywhere near empty yet, longest trip was 19 miles so far.
My PAS configuration is a bit unusual - it's setup to give the most assist at slower speeds (e.g. hills and acceleration), and less assist (all the way to zero in some cases) the faster I pedal. It should work a lot better once I have a torque sensor installed, but it encourages putting out efficient human power while cruising.
I don't own a car and cycled everywhere even before the e-bike, so my leg strength may be higher than many here even though I'm not really in shape otherwise.
---
I also have many steep mountain roads near me, which obviously use a *lot* more power, but I've already realized I need a bigger battery for them so I don't have a lot of good numbers there yet. I know it can handle them, just burns through a lot of power (though I get a lot back from regen too on the downslope).
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michael mcvey
Member
Giant Road-E (2017). Bike setup for touring. Yamaha motor 500Watt battery. My weight 140. Another 15-25 pounds carried in Handlebar, Tail bags and rear panniers. Riding Pacific coast highway from Santa Barbara to Newport Beach. Average 14.5 MPH. Most in Eco mode (Level 1).
3 separate trips - Achieved 100, and 116 and 118 miles per battery. I now have 2,000+ miles on bike and routinely get 90+ miles.
14.5 is a 20% increase over my MPH on a regular bike on this trip.
3 separate trips - Achieved 100, and 116 and 118 miles per battery. I now have 2,000+ miles on bike and routinely get 90+ miles.
14.5 is a 20% increase over my MPH on a regular bike on this trip.
VirgilCaine
Active Member
Wow ! That's impressive mileage. What's the terrain like ? I'm assuming that you are pretty fit...?
Did my first serious ride on my new iZIP Protour - 26-mile suburban loop with 900' of elevation gain. I (220 lb) used levels 0, 1, 2 as needed to stay somewhat cruising/relaxed (10-15 mph) and level 3 for about a mile or so on steepest parts of the 900' gain. My COBI system showed 45% battery available when I got home (total is only 417 Wh).
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michael mcvey
Member
Virgil, to answer your question please refer to post titled 'Range 100 miles Giant Road-E' on this site. Yes I'm fairly fit for my age '68'.
But keeping the motor in the lowest mode and pedal as a normal bike is key to the mileage. As stated my goal is for the E-Bike to provide a 20% increase of MPH over a regular bike and this bike and riding technique meets that goal.
Based on 500 Watt Hour battery and range of 100 miles equals to 5 watts per mile at avg 14.5MPH. My experience with rolling hills is that watt usage rises from 5 watts up to 10 watts during the ascend but then drops to 0 watts on the descend. A 100 mile day with rolling hills still nets to an overall average of 5 watts per mile.
But keeping the motor in the lowest mode and pedal as a normal bike is key to the mileage. As stated my goal is for the E-Bike to provide a 20% increase of MPH over a regular bike and this bike and riding technique meets that goal.
Based on 500 Watt Hour battery and range of 100 miles equals to 5 watts per mile at avg 14.5MPH. My experience with rolling hills is that watt usage rises from 5 watts up to 10 watts during the ascend but then drops to 0 watts on the descend. A 100 mile day with rolling hills still nets to an overall average of 5 watts per mile.
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Roxlimn
Member
Highly agree with micheal mcvey.
Obviously, an ebike's effective range is infinite, if you turned off the motor and rode it like a regular bike. The Yamaha PW motor is fairly okay for this. There's some resistance, but it's a bit like the brakes rubbing a teensy bit. It'll probably suck maybe 1 or 2 mph from your speed, depending. I hear the Shimano and Brose motors are even better, functionally disconnecting the motor from the drivetrain almost completely.
But the less obvious corollary to that is that if the rider outputs a significant amount of the power themselves, a battery can take them much longer than you might expect. I only use a little over half of my 400 Wh battery capacity, but that takes me about 30 miles on maximum assist, which is significantly more than a 20 Wh/mile estimate might suggest. This is largely because most of the power is used for accelerating from a stop or going up inclines. Since my commute is largely flat, the motor sips power for more than 80% of the trip.
If I dialed down the assist to Eco (the lowest level), and leave the panniers at home, the range is nearly 60 miles for a little over half the battery capacity. At this assist level, it's similar in effort to go 14-15 mph as a light racing bike. Not quite as hard as pedaling it unpowered. 100 miles for a very fit rider on a light Road-E road bike is very realistic for the Yamahas.
Estimating range like this or standardizing range estimate like this is very troublesome because pedal assist ebikes aren't designed to move without some measure of rider assistance. Even at maximum assist settings, some wattage is taken from the rider, so the range is going to vary widely depending on how much the rider is capable of moving the bike without feeling like they're exerting effort.
Obviously, an ebike's effective range is infinite, if you turned off the motor and rode it like a regular bike. The Yamaha PW motor is fairly okay for this. There's some resistance, but it's a bit like the brakes rubbing a teensy bit. It'll probably suck maybe 1 or 2 mph from your speed, depending. I hear the Shimano and Brose motors are even better, functionally disconnecting the motor from the drivetrain almost completely.
But the less obvious corollary to that is that if the rider outputs a significant amount of the power themselves, a battery can take them much longer than you might expect. I only use a little over half of my 400 Wh battery capacity, but that takes me about 30 miles on maximum assist, which is significantly more than a 20 Wh/mile estimate might suggest. This is largely because most of the power is used for accelerating from a stop or going up inclines. Since my commute is largely flat, the motor sips power for more than 80% of the trip.
If I dialed down the assist to Eco (the lowest level), and leave the panniers at home, the range is nearly 60 miles for a little over half the battery capacity. At this assist level, it's similar in effort to go 14-15 mph as a light racing bike. Not quite as hard as pedaling it unpowered. 100 miles for a very fit rider on a light Road-E road bike is very realistic for the Yamahas.
Estimating range like this or standardizing range estimate like this is very troublesome because pedal assist ebikes aren't designed to move without some measure of rider assistance. Even at maximum assist settings, some wattage is taken from the rider, so the range is going to vary widely depending on how much the rider is capable of moving the bike without feeling like they're exerting effort.
VirgilCaine
Active Member
I know there are alot of variables, but keep the actual range info coming. It may help a prospective buyer to make a better decision rather than taking the manufacturers word as gospel.
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Over50
Well-Known Member
I did 36 miles on my commute today riding 100% Eco. Slight tailwind on the ride to work and about 8 mph headwind on the ride home (4 extra miles on the ride home). I managed the 36 miles on about 1/2 of the 500wh battery no hills 165lb rider. 29 miles of estimated range remaining in Eco. Bosch CX Haibike XDuro Trekking 4.0.
2017 Smartmotion Catalyst
500w motor, 48v 17.5 amp battery, 220 lbs. 20-25 mph
mostly flat, minor hills, 50-50 gravel/dirt - paved.
A couple of recent rides:
level 3 out of 6 assist
22-23 mph average
30% battery remaining after 47 miles
Level 1 out of 6 assist
22-23 mph average
80% battery left after 22 miles
VirgilCaine
Active Member
I met up with Windward today and we rode 13.2 miles on USFS gravel roads with lots of elevation change. We are both about the same age and weight with similar bikes, so we compared battery usage on our ride. He used 28% of his battery on his Giant Full-E+3 (FS yamaha) and I used 27% on my easy motion atom x 6 (FS brose). Both riding in same gear and about same assist ranging from no assist to level 2. The difference being that my bike has 4 levels and Windward's bike has 3, so his level 2 had a little more punch than my level 2.
Biggest difference in the two was the noise level...Brose was noticeably quieter, but otherwise hard to tell the difference when we switched bikes.First ride with another e-biker. Fun !!!
Biggest difference in the two was the noise level...Brose was noticeably quieter, but otherwise hard to tell the difference when we switched bikes.First ride with another e-biker. Fun !!!
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Knighterrant
New Member
I ride with a 2018 Haibike Urban Plus. My average ride is 25-30 miles using various levels of assist. I typically have around 10-15 miles of remaining batt life at the end of my ride.
edwinr
New Member
So far, I've been averaging anywhere from 16 miles with " Level 3 & Turbo," and I also had a 20mph headwind against us. I was also towing my two dogs (100+lbs dog & 20lbs) riding on their bike trailer, plus a few items in my rear panniers (hahaha). What's even cool, I have gotten up to 34 miles using " Level 2" while towing my dogs. Overall, the most I've gotten so far was 43 miles on "Level 1" with mostly flat surface, and I was also towing my dog and trailer (see photos).
All in all, I've been really impressed with my 2017 E3 Protour with COBI tech. Granted, I had a few issues from the beginning, but after putting it to the test with real life experiences in different situations.... so far, it has lived up to to my expectation. Of course no ebike is perfect, and I have a few things I would change, but overall, this bike is solid.
Lastly, I've owned my Protour now for a few months, and I've already put on more than 500 miles, mostly cycling with my dogs and their trailer and I'm happy to share, it's a solid ebike. This is my personal experience and yours may differ, so please share your Protour experience too! Be interesting to compare.
PS - I'll try to post a blog and share tons of photos that I've taken so far. I've gotten a lot of people loving the look. Hope you are enjoying yours and cheers!
Attachments
What's the bottom right icon on your Cobi that says "91"? Is it cadence?
Giant Quick E (500MW battery, 36V system, 500Watt/80NM peak output mid drive) 28 MPH bike
-215 Lb rider + pannier with a computer, coffee, lunch, change kit, etc.
-25-27MPH running max power assist and generally as fast as I can go
-Slight uphill grade to work (12.5 one way) and a few mild hills.
-Minimal Wind
- Range under these conditions is about 25-30 miles.
-215 Lb rider + pannier with a computer, coffee, lunch, change kit, etc.
-25-27MPH running max power assist and generally as fast as I can go
-Slight uphill grade to work (12.5 one way) and a few mild hills.
-Minimal Wind
- Range under these conditions is about 25-30 miles.
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