Watt Wagons Labs! 3000 - 5000W Ultra!
pushkar
Well-Known Member
This guy is crazy.This is a great idea.
Andy Kirby on YouTube has been running 4000W for quite a long time.
4000W is nothing new.
So let's push it to 5000W.
You can push a lot of wattage, but honestly I have chickened out and have tuned mine down to 2300 / 3000 peak.
Holy Moly!Scale only goes up to 300NmSafe to say it is well of 300Nm
Use of single speed chain only, with preferably steel cogs.
For cross reference...
Tesla Model 3 max 493 Nm
Ferrari 458 hits 300 Nm at 4300 rpm (max 575 Nm)
Kawasaki Z900 max 98.6 Nm
Wear your helmet!
Deacon Blues
Well-Known Member
I wonder how often he has to replace his chain.
pushkar
Well-Known Member
Every 100-200 miles based on beta testing.
Deacon Blues
Well-Known Member
That can get expensive, unless chain can be bought in bulk, at a huge discount.
pushkar
Well-Known Member
Even at bulk / dealer prices it’s hard to beat what you can sometimes score on Amazon.That can get expensive, unless chain can be bought in bulk, at a huge discount.
.
mebentz2
New Member
So is the higher wattage achieved with higher amperage or higher voltage?
I think the part of the torque curve that is more interesting is at the higher RPMs where back EMF (battery voltage) tends to be the limiting factor on power delivered.
Have you looked at changing out the ratio of the internal gears? I would gladly trade lower torque for higher RPM... It'd be interesting to see the RPM at which current starts dropping on these motors. With the 1000W Bafang I'm already beating cars at the lights. It's 20mph and higher that it starts running out of juice. It feels like the torque is dropping off due to the RPM, but it's hard to tell with a butt dyno.
I'd also like to see an intentional non-flat torque curve, and back off the current at super low RPMs to be easier on the drivetrain. Plus it feels cool to have the torque increase with RPM.
I think the part of the torque curve that is more interesting is at the higher RPMs where back EMF (battery voltage) tends to be the limiting factor on power delivered.
Have you looked at changing out the ratio of the internal gears? I would gladly trade lower torque for higher RPM... It'd be interesting to see the RPM at which current starts dropping on these motors. With the 1000W Bafang I'm already beating cars at the lights. It's 20mph and higher that it starts running out of juice. It feels like the torque is dropping off due to the RPM, but it's hard to tell with a butt dyno.
I'd also like to see an intentional non-flat torque curve, and back off the current at super low RPMs to be easier on the drivetrain. Plus it feels cool to have the torque increase with RPM.
scrambler
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Bay Area, CA
I find this strange, as far as I am concerned, one of the biggest advantage of electric vehicles is the fact you have ALL the torque available all the time ....
onlineaddy
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- San Diego, CA, USA
That is correct, but you may not want all the torque all the time to protect your drivetrain.
onlineaddy
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- San Diego, CA, USA
That all depends on your programming of the controller.
mebentz2
New Member
I agree it sounds strange, but as a long time automotive enthusiast, I can tell you that ICE motors are so much more fun to drive...and it's precisely because the torque increases with RPM. When you're near the limit of grip and accelerating out of a corner, the increase in torque requires you to back off the pedal a bit as you increase your speed...making for a much more exciting drive. With electric motors, there is no excitement because the torque is falling off rather dramatically once you get moving. It's as anti-climatic as driving an electric golf-cart.
Btw, here's a typical torque curve for most electric motors, and this chart is nice because it shows voltage dependency and the shape of temporary peaks too:
https://x-engineer.org/automotive-engineering/vehicle/electric-vehicles/ev-design-electric-motors/
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mebentz2
New Member
You will have no control over the zero torque available once you break your drivetrain.I prefer to be in charge of how much I want to protect the drive train at any given time rather than be constrained to it
What I think you want is a stronger drivetrain to keep up with the stronger motor. However, what I'm recognizing is that the drivetrain is a limiting factor at low speeds, and that you're not getting the full power out of the motor at high speeds. If you change the gearing to lower the peak output torque at low RPM, then you can simultaneously protect the drivetrain and increase the peak speed. I would also love to reduce the twitchiness of the bike at low speeds, which will improve low speed control...whether it be slipping tires or doing wheelies when you don't want it to.
FlatSix911
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Silicon Valley
I used to be addicted to ICE vehicles (see my Avatar name)... but once you go to an EV you will be hooked on the instantaneous torque.
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scrambler
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Bay Area, CA
I can only wholeheartedly disagree
I have been driving electric car for 7 years now and I would NEVER go back.
EVs are so much more fun to drive (for me...)
BruceBrown
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Kansas City
Differing opinion. I bought a Model S in 2013 and loved it for a couple years and yes, the instantaneous torque was fantastic but I enjoy my 992 911 much more than I did my Model S.I used to be addicted to ICE vehicles (see my Avatar name)... but once you go to an EV you will be hooked on the instantaneous torque.
But, now that I type this, I should also say that when I bought the Tesla there was no P100, no AWD, and no ludicrous mode yet so maybe my mind would change today
FlatSix911
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Silicon Valley
All I can say as a dedicated 993 track enthusiast... check out the P100D or wait for the Plaid Trimotor.Differing opinion. I bought a Model S in 2013 and loved it for a couple years and yes, the instantaneous torque was fantastic but I enjoy my 992 911 much more than I did my Model S.
But, now that I type this, I should also say that when I bought the Tesla there was no P100, no AWD, and no ludicrous mode yet so maybe my mind would change today
It was Andy Kirby's 1st Vapor video that made me interested in using the ultra in the first place. if it ws not for him I would not be commenting on this topic now lol. But I would not like to have his current version of the bike tbh, yeah plenty of power but he has had plenty of issues and much less refinement, I beleive it is using throttle only to power the motor now.
(lol kinda funny if you watch his original build video he says he intends to remove the throttle and use it as a normal ebike)
(lol kinda funny if you watch his original build video he says he intends to remove the throttle and use it as a normal ebike)
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