Wanted volunteers: Tributes for Custom Quiet Gears for Ultra

[PedalUma]

I also do not have a dog in this one. Anecdotally, I rode yesterday beside my friend who has a new HD that was expertly done with the New Steel Gear from Luna. The key was the correct lubrication. It was silent. I could not hear anything. Frames also amplify sound, deadening them can make a world of difference. I have used Great Stuff, but be cautious and plan ahead if taking this approach or the result is disaster.

 

[greeno]

FWIW I used to ride the BBSHD "Hotrod" programming and never had a problem with the nylon gear. The 1/2" steel pinion gear and controllers failing yes but never blew out the white nylon one. And all I heard was that was supposed to be the sacrificial lamb on those motors. Im sure guys that repair these motors have a different story to back up the claim Im just sayin I try to be in the correct gear for what Im trying to ride and I was fine. That was using a SA internal 3 spd. 36t front and 20t rear. All day long.....

 

[greeno]

So having a steel gear and correct lube worked? What lube are they using ? Last I heard it was the mobil 28. I wonder if different lube in a stock Bafang G510 would make any difference to guys who want to silence it a bit?

 

[pushkar]

I understand the apprehension of the testing aprt.

I am curious. Other than the controller, what is the improvement needed on the ultra ? Noise is somewhat of an issue - but not a lot looks like. Is that the general consensus ?

 

[AHicks]

I understand the apprehension of the testing aprt.

I am curious. Other than the controller, what is the improvement needed on the ultra ? Noise is somewhat of an issue - but not a lot looks like. Is that the general consensus ?

I'm fine with my self tweaked controller. I'd just like to silence the motor, to something on the level of the BBSHD or early nylon geared G510.

 

[Ebiker33]

I really appreciate the efforts being made to make the ultra make less noise, and I have a thread on it.
I have 3 issue for Pushkar to consider.
What is the new metal alloy your considering ? Anything less than a proper ferrous metal defeats the purpose.
I also have a concern that the material used to make the casing hold in extra noise will also hold in extra heat, this is bad for cooling.
A single large PEEK gear may suffice as the original Ultra's nylon gear is very silient, this would bring down the expense for everybody.

Some are wondering why, at all.
I am going to post some videos as to why.

The M600 is loud without the PEEK gear, this is known.
The BBSHD stock is naturally much more silient.
The goal is to get the ultra to the same noise level as the BBSHD or less if that is possible.
Every situation is different, some people with fat tires that are riding on concrete or asphalt won't really care because your tire hum will drown out your motor noise.
For me the goal is to bring the noise down on mixed trails, nobody should hear your motor from 300 feet away. Less noise is better in every way, for me as a rider and better for the other people I am passing so they don't have to hear it or know it's an Ebike with the battery embedded within the frame and hiding.

I am for this project 100% and wish Pushkar every success, my plans to find somebody to produce this around me fell through, so I will leave it to others, but I am excited that Pushkar and Watt Wagons could have something really amazing for his Ebikes in 2022.

The ultra with upgraded controller and a "silient treatment" whatever form that takes, would be a real winner in the Ebike space, nothing could really match it at this point.

 

[onlineaddy]

I understand the apprehension of the testing aprt.

I am curious. Other than the controller, what is the improvement needed on the ultra ? Noise is somewhat of an issue - but not a lot looks like. Is that the general consensus ?

Obviously a quieter motor is better. But, as with anything else, you have to weigh the cost to get there. To me, personally, that cost is too high, especially since the customer is being asked to take any risk associated with the testing of the product on top of the not-insignificant cost. My 2¢, of course.

 

[greeno]

Not sure what the video's were for except to show the difference between a steel gear and a peek gear I guess. I think the project thats being referred to is for the m620/G510.
The X1 bike is a lot noisier than the Apex for example, both bikes being from our boys up north in El Segundo. X1 being M600 and the Apex/ Apollo...what apollo??? where???. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think they ran into issues with the Ultra Mag motor they were coming out with and don't think they ever had a Peek gear for that motor.
Funny now I think about it. I have an Exess/Travelanche, another buddy has the same bike. Two other guys have the AK Vapour. Another guy has a Biktrix Juggernaut FS Ultra, and another guy has the Apex and his friend has the X1, What a mouthful. I guess we need another friend with a FREY to round out the group. To me the Ultra sounds just fine the way it is. I'm usually making more noise than the bike anyway.

 

[Bubba zanetti]

I was going to experiment with different lubes on my ultra. Problem is I can’t source a gasket if I damaged it. Zip. No where to be found.
Had great success using Moly-c in old, rough shifting VW’s. Unsure about it in the Bafang. But would start with Mobil 28 or similar and pack if fairly full. I imagine it would reduce but not eliminate noise. Either that or add a speaker playing Jetsons or BatMan BatMobile sound effects ...

But $500 + USD is a bridge too far for me.

 

[Dallant]

Obviously a quieter motor is better. But, as with anything else, you have to weigh the cost to get there. To me, personally, that cost is too high, especially since the customer is being asked to take any risk associated with the testing of the product on top of the not-insignificant cost. My 2¢, of course.

IS a quieter motor better? My Prius is the quietest car I’ve ever had but isn’t “better” because of that.
As a rider of bikes the majority of my life, I’ve always had noise involved in the experience. If it’s not the shifter clunking, its tires or chain noise. I’ve come to appreciate the noise my Bosch CX makes like I have the sounds of my Covette or MX-5 make as I shift through the gears.
As someone who did a bit of beta testing, I can appreciate helping to get the bugs out of products for manufacturers. This is pretty pricey though and, since it could mess with a warranty, not worth it in my mind.
Best of luck to all involved!

 

[Wald]

Cost of gear sets (we will provide 3 gears) is $450 + shipping from Asia

Why 3 gears?
Wouldn't one replacement gear be enough to reduce most of the noise, like what Bafang did with the original Ultra Nylon gear? And it wouldn't be so expensive.

I would love to have a quieter motor, but almost 500$ is way to much money.

 

[Ebiker33]

Hold on $450 is not for one gear, but 3 plus shipping, the final product will not be that much, we need to cast a wider net for beta testers with Ultra's
Pushkar you should reach out to Ebikes USA the owner Houshmand Moarefi is very progressive, he has ultra motor Ebikes and probably would to like to test these as well.
EBR has featured him in videos here. I will also post a thread in the general forum to get people to come to this thread.
Here is that thread
BETA Testers Needed For R & D Project

 

[Merle Nelson]

Pinging @Ebiker33 , @Bubba zanetti , @Weaselander , @TDA78 , @Merle Nelson, @AHicks

Huh, very interesting.

Well, I don't know anything about anything with regard to ebikes basically. I can see the benefit of a quieter and more durable motor especially if it can deliver more power while doing those things. To that end I could put $100 towards the cost of parts for someone who does do installation and testing. (Maybe some day there will be a worked out "magic combination" that I could consider buying for X dollars as a result of this grand collaborative effort.)

I do wonder of the people who read this thread and could not see themselves risking their warranty, or paying $1000 dollars to do it, how many would chip in a certain amount toward others doing so. Maybe there is a dollar figure that one could see putting in the pot that would not hurt or be missed anyway?

Often when I am paying for food out I feel like I am getting little or no service or extra service. I mean, for the price listed on the menu, they had to get my food to the table. If they dropped it out back I wouldn't pay for it. It occurs to me that my 15 to 20 percent tip is really just some kind of insurance that they don't spit in my food or something. (My wife and I do gladly tip and tip well when there is extra effort or service provided.)

So this collaborative type of effort then is the opposite of someone barely getting food to the table. This is people going way above and beyond doing far more than they would ever do for themselves alone. This has passion driving it. I can put in $100 and my hat is off to the people who put in hundreds or thousands of dollars of personal effort just because....

 

[theemartymac]

Either that or add a speaker playing Jetsons or BatMan BatMobile sound effects ...

As a kid I used to wedge playing cards in my frame to rub my spokes and make my bike louder. Now here I am trying to make it quieter. What kind of monster have I become!!!??? :-D

 

[Gionnirocket]

Absolutely! From where I'm sitting limiting the watts would be fine. I think 1600 is WAY over the top for most of us. I'd be a very happy camper with a quiet gear able to handle 15-1600w. Buy the composite gear with the understanding that it's VERY possible to blow it when abused. No need to prove it! For those that want to play with big power increases, use/stay with the metal gear and try to tear that up..... -Al

Don't own an ULTRA eBike... But thinking about one for next spring and I agree here.
Those looking to push out ultra high performance and maximum wattage typically are not the same interested in the quietest motor.

 

[Ebiker33]

I want to add, things that make noise on Ebikes are slowly being taken away, too much tire hum/buzz, change tires for example to Vee speedsters(I own a set)
Chain rattle, which I experience on my Ebike, eliminated with a Gates belt.
Motor noise, intall a PEEK gear.
I think the IGH also makes less noise when you shift gears as well.

 

[AHicks]

I want to add, things that make noise on Ebikes are slowly being taken away, too much tire hum/buzz, change tires for example to Vee speedsters(I own a set)
Chain rattle, which I experience on my Ebike, eliminated with a Gates belt.
Motor noise, intall a PEEK gear.
I think the IGH also makes less noise when you shift gears as well.

If forced into a twice a day 1 hour commute, would you prefer to drive a silent car (no rattles, no wind, tire, or exhaust noise, etc) or would you prefer something closer to what was commonly driven 50 years ago, where very little attempt at real silence was being made? I know there may be some with other 'druthers here (the convetible crowd for instance), but I'd go for the silent treatment every time given the choice. Same story on my bikes. ANY noise make me crazy. If I can avoid it, I will. It really is that simple. -Al

 

[Bluzrif]

I must agree... I love my model 3 but miss the connection of noise to performance... Having said that the less intrusive you are at a state park the further you push out the onerous legal restrictions ( maybe)

IS a quieter motor better? My Prius is the quietest car I’ve ever had but isn’t “better” because of that.
As a rider of bikes the majority of my life, I’ve always had noise involved in the experience. If it’s not the shifter clunking, its tires or chain noise. I’ve come to appreciate the noise my Bosch CX makes like I have the sounds of my Covette or MX-5 make as I shift through the gears.
As someone who did a bit of beta testing, I can appreciate helping to get the bugs out of products for manufacturers. This is pretty pricey though and, since it could mess with a warranty, not worth it in my mind.
Best of luck to all involved!

 

[PedalUma]

I think that in our categorizations of things we associate quiet with efficient. Then there is scary quiet. And we categorize loud with slip-shod, antique and vulgar things. A bike that is making noise falls into the later category.

 

[Cuz Vinny]

Hold on $450 is not for one gear, but 3 plus shipping, the final product will not be that much, we need to cast a wider net for beta testers with Ultra's
Pushkar you should reach out to Ebikes USA the owner Houshmand Moarefi is very progressive, he has ultra motor Ebikes and probably would to like to test these as well.
EBR has featured him in videos here. I will also post a thread in the general forum to get people to come to this thread.
Here is that thread
BETA Testers Needed For R & D Project

The bikes Houshmand has with the Ultra Motor are the Sondors Mid Drives. I doubt he’s going to want to take one apart and install an unproven set of gears in it. Maybe in his personal bike but I question that as well. I’ll touch base with him and see if I can get him to join this forum and discussion.