Want a comparo of Haibike models to decipher features vs pricing

[Shaggy]

I have watched Court's youtube reviews for a couple of years before focusing on Haibike as the brand to buy. Problem is I still have not deciphered their feature-laden product line.
For example, Haibike XDURO Pro is an 11speed with an extra large ring for climbing vs 10 speed XDURO Nduro RX, tires/rims differ also. So for the 2015 models now discounted heavily, when is the difference in parts really worth the extra money? As they go on sale, the price difference gets so close that I want to spend a little more. In my area(San Francisco), this place offers largest discount I could find:

http://www.motostrano.com/Haibike-2...tm?searching=Y&sort=2&cat=8275&show=60&page=1

I am not downhilling per se, but I am a gear junkie and better metals and parts mean alot to me. Chief use is both commuting on bad, bumpy city streets and weekend trail riding. While a downhill model is overqualified perhaps, unless the extra quality is a negative (like too much shock travel), it doesnt put me off. I dont mind spending more, but I dont want to spend double for a slight increase in quality. When there's a narrow price spread, that's when I go for it. Sorry for the long-winded message, but thanks for any advice!

 

[pxpaulx]

Like any bike, the cost difference is really in the sum of the components. If you're not sure what or why the prices are different, I'm not sure that is it really going to matter to your rides. My wife and I both have Haibike Sduro models with Suntour components (mine is the hard seven SL and hers the women's equivalent). If the models you are looking at have rockshox or fox suspensions they both make quality components - you're buying mid to high level market parts (generally in that order from what I've read) with those names, so you're not going wrong either way.

 

[Jack Tyler]

Perhaps I'm in agreement with @Shaggy, at least in the sense that I find the Haibike USA website to be just as obtuse and un-helpful for the diligent shopper as the available Haibike models are numerous. Initially burrowing down one or two levels within the Yamaha/Bosch arenas is simple enough (if unnecessarily bothersome given the loading required for the various promo pages), but after that I find the info provided incomplete. That makes it very difficult to get the granularity that perhaps Shaggy and certainly I'm looking for when deciding one bike's value or desirability - for me - over another. Now add in the absence of any pricing info and I find it too time consuming to bother. Haibike has invested a lot of time and moolah on their website only to end up steering me away from it. (And maybe Court has thankfully placed the bar much higher, elevating my expectations).

And BTW what's with the lack of pricing info on distributor websites like this? My understanding is that a dealer dare not advertise a price other than MSRP, here or elsewhere, for fear of losing their commercial relationship. So distributor websites like Haibike USA wouldn't be revealing state secrets by sharing their pricing. Or perhaps they wish to avoid scaring away customers since they know MSRP pricing can be higher than what numerous dealers sell their bikes for? It strikes me as a reverse Potemkin's Village of sorts: Their MSRP pricing scheme is likely higher than the diligent buyer can find, which in turn impeaches the MSRP credibility they are trying to sustain. How ebike pricing is handled - for the dealer-based ebike products at least - strikes me as pretty archaic given today's Virtual Village.

 

[eoghan]

As a buyer of two Haibikes in the last month I also ran into the same issues getting clear info on the differences between the various models. I even went to a Haibike demo day to speak with a Haibike rep and they were totally useless and uninterested in answering detailed questions. Haibike do have a printed catalog but don't give them out for some unknown reason. In the end I found this site run by a english bike store to be the best source of info out there even though they don't have the correct info for US motors and batteries.

https://www.e-bikeshop.co.uk/Haibike-Electric-Bikes

 

[Jack Tyler]

Thanks, @eoghan !

 

[Shaggy]

As a buyer of two Haibikes in the last month I also ran into the same issues getting clear info on the differences between the various models. I even went to a Haibike demo day to speak with a Haibike rep and they were totally useless and uninterested in answering detailed questions. Haibike do have a printed catalog but don't give them out for some unknown reason. In the end I found this site run by a english bike store to be the best source of info out there even though they don't have the correct info for US motors and batteries.

https://www.e-bikeshop.co.uk/Haibike-Electric-Bikes

Funny, eoghan - I was looking at that very site last night. This part may help shoppers of Haibikes:
>>>
The Haibike range can be confusing at best, we break it down as follows:

Motor Type: xDuro=Bosch | sDuro=Yamaha
Bike Style: Dwnhll=Down Hill | NDURO=Enduro | AllMtn=All Mountain | Trekking = Touring | Cross=Hybrid
Suspension Type: Hard=Hard Tail (Rigid at rear) | Full=Full Suspension (Both Front & Rear)
Wheels Size: Nine=29" | Seven=27.5" | Six=26" | Plus=27.5"
Spec Grade: SL=Entry Level | RC=Mid Range | RX=Elite Range | PRO=Top Pro Spec (NB: Not all spec grades available on some models)

Using this formula this bike would breakdown as follows:
Haibike xDuro (Bosch) Full (Full Suspension) Seven (27.5" Wheel) RC (Mid Spec)
<<<

Still doesn't answer the relative value of incremental differences between similar Haibikes, but does show the hierarchy from most $$$ top of the line going down:
Pro
RX
RC
SL
But what is an "nduro" ? I have heard of enduro motorcycle racing but i have no idea how Haibike Nduro differs from Haibike AllMtn. All mountain should cover *all mountains", but of course, here it means it's below Nduro which is below Pro. Oy!

 

[J.R.]

Understanding bicycle component hierarchy is a huge task! For good or bad, it's what bike companies base their pricing on (ebikes incl.) and for various reasons they expect buyers to know. Some have made component hierarchy almost a life's work. Sheldon Brown spent his life teaching people about bikes, without an ounce of snobbery and without getting rich.

It's information you'd think the bike companies would want to share, if only to justify their pricing. I don't think any of them do though and it almost smacks of elitism. Just Googling "bicycling component hierarchy" shows: https://www.google.com/search?q=bic....69i57j0l5.26489j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

 

[Jack Tyler]

That link alone made my head start hurting, J.R.

 

[vincent]

i agree that trying to research haibikes was ridiculous
the website is awful

 

[Chris Nolte]

AllMTN would be much better for all-around riding compared to a Nduro. It's really about what the bike is designed to do, Nduro bikes are effectively downhill bikes meaning they're made with a geometry to handle that sort of ridding. The AllMtn Pro is gonna have the best components and handle almost anything you can throw at it. It's one of the more popular bikes in our shop, although the AllMtn RX is more popular due to the price difference.

 

[steve atkinson]

I went with RX over pro. My logic is that after having spent 10k on a race bike and only getting 3.5k back on eBay some 2 years later, high end bikes will still only sell for so much. The PRO components vs RX for me not worth the upgrade and you'll lose even more money when resold. I along with many people consider shimano xt / xtr the best any way, which is the group set sold with rx, so not all are upgrades I'm upgrading the RX with my own components (thomson / enve), but keeping the stock ones to put back on when i resell bike. By the time i resell there will be a better motor?, battery etc, haikbike will change to boost axle (or something else, so can't keep up). I'm currently painting frame in some areas and changing colour of decals, will post when complete.
The rx is a nice bike, but rc seems nice as well.

 

[steve atkinson]

Owe i should mention that i cycle with a friend who has a an old hardtail, he's 46 and holds many strava KOMS. He's supper fit and can keep up with me in eco mode on a 20 plus mile ride averaging 17mph (ride inc many hills). IT'S NOT ALL ABOUT THE BIKE!!!

 

[Shaggy]

Cant find which model you mean? All MTN?? Link please.
I find these two which i think you mean:
Haibike SDURO AMT PRO Electric Mountain Bike
List Price: $6,199.00Our Price: $5,988.00
Savings: $211.00
(Link Removed - No Longer Exists)
(Link Removed - No Longer Exists)Haibike XDURO AMT RX Ebike
List Price: $5,899.00Our Price: $5,699.00
Savings: $200.00
(Link Removed - No Longer Exists)

AllMTN would be much better for all-around riding compared to a Nduro. It's really about what the bike is designed to do, Nduro bikes are effectively downhill bikes meaning they're made with a geometry to handle that sort of ridding. The AllMtn Pro is gonna have the best components and handle almost anything you can throw at it. It's one of the more popular bikes in our shop, although the AllMtn RX is more popular due to the price difference.

 

[Shaggy]

Owe i should mention that i cycle with a friend who has a an old hardtail, he's 46 and holds many strava KOMS. He's supper fit and can keep up with me in eco mode on a 20 plus mile ride averaging 17mph (ride inc many hills). IT'S NOT ALL ABOUT THE BIKE!!!

With all due respect to your opinion, if I'm spending thousands on a technology I've no experience with, it sure is all about the feature I am paying my hard earned money for.

 

[pxpaulx]

To be honest I would hope he could keep up with eco mode! Eco mode provides about enough power to counter the weight of the bike itself, I find it next to useless unless I want to putter along at eleven miles an hour.

 

[steve atkinson]

I can only give you my experience and humble opinion as a current rider of three bikes i.e. Colnago c59, Cannondale 29er black inc, Haibike all mtn rx (modded motor / components). Firstly, I'm not super fit at 5ft,9 and 190lb, but I can ride my cannondale mtb on a 20 mile ride at around 15-16mph average with rolling hills. Colnago is slightly more at about 17-18mph avg. When I bought an ebike I wanted to maintain, if not improve my fitness. I also wanted to be able to on occasions have a real blast in turbo mode!.

Firstly, my ebike without mod would be useless to me and I would be selling immediately. The motor assist for me is necessary over 15mph to counter weight and maintain a certain average speed depending on terrain. I ride in either off mode, but mainly eco. I find eco more than enough for hills and I like the fact that I'm out of saddle working hardish up hills. I can easily maintain around 20mph average in eco, but this may be to do with the mod. If I went up to tour-turbo mode I feel i would lose my fitness etc as it takes little effort. Remember I want to maintain / improve my fitness.

My intention is to have one bike left and sell all others and this will be my ebike. I love the fact that it lets me work hard if I want to, but it lets me be able to ride at plus 30mph if I want.

Don't forget this is only my opinion at this point in time. Some people clearly find eco not enough and I'm sure some people find turbo not enough. Each to their own.

 

[steve atkinson]

Regarding specs. It is imho that Haibike have a complex and somewhat odd mix of specs and bikes. The problem I had was getting good advise off anyone including who I bought from which was ebikeshop, in UK. I think Hiabike need to get their act together streamlining bikes offered and clear specs between them. Without going into to much detail you have endure wheels on allmtn bikes and often better brakes on RX models vs pro.
When I commented on the specs prior, I meant that for my limited abilities SLX brakes seemed as good as XTR £ for £. To a very good rider / pro it may be the world of difference. Its the law of diminishing returns!