Vado SL and Vado SL 2 assist levels

[Douglas Ruby]

I believe I read somewhere that in addition to the 240W/35Nm rating of the SL 1.1 motor vs the 320W/50Nm rating of the SL 1.2 motor, there is a difference in the "rider multiplier" assist levels. I know that the "multiplier" value for SL 1.1 is 1.8X and I think that I read that it is 2.1X for the SL 1.2 motors. I am very interested in how this can be controlled in the SL 2 road bikes (Vado 2 and Creo 2) so that one could get the SPORT mode in a Vado 2 SL to behave more like the TURBO mode in an earlier Vado SL. If I could limit output to 240W in SPORT mode on a Vado 2 while maintaining a power multiplier of at least 1.5X or so, I think I could manage to optimize range without having to use TURBO mode as much as I do now.

For example, the non-SL Vado is supposed to provide up to 4X assist over the riders input where the SL 1.1 based Vado SL is just 1.8X up to the maximum of 240W. When I ride my Vado SL 5.0 EQ, I use the Mastermind TCU to track the rider input power (in watts), the motor mechanical output (also in watts) and the combined power. In Turbo mode, I notice that when under load, the "multiplier" is indeed around 1.8X, so if I am putting 100W into the bike, the motor puts out around 180W and the combined is 280W. Of course, once the motor hits around 240W of output, (around 244-248 on mine), there is no more, even if I am climbing at over 300W of rider input. It appears to me, as I go through the various levels (ECO/SPORT/TURBO), in addition to controlling the peak motor assist, the rider multiplier level also changes.

For example:

• ECO - Rider = 100W Motor = 60W Combined = 160W Multiplier = 0.6X (I am quite confident in this ratio for ECO mode)
• SPORT - Rider = 100W Motor = 100W Combined = 200W Multiplier = 1.0X (I am very confident in the 1X ratio for SPORT mode)
• TURBO - Rider = 100W Motor = 180W Combined = 280W Multiplier = 1.8X (I am less confident in this ratio)

I don't know if I fully understand this effect, but I know that regardless of the percent ranges I set in the Specialized app, there is a huge difference in responsiveness between ECO, SPORT, and especially TURBO. Even if I were to set all three modes to allow 100% motor output, it seems I would have to work a lot harder in ECO or SPORT to get to 240W output than when I am in TURBO mode.

Does anyone here understand the algorithm that controls this effect in the VADO SL family motors? How does setting percent ranges to tune each mode in the Specialized App actually work?

 

[Stefan Mikes]

It is really simple.
SL 1.1:
Max Assist (mechanical) 1.8x
Max Motor Power (mechanical) 240 W.

ECO 35/35%:
Assist 0.35 * 1.8 = 0.63
Motor Power Limit 0.35 * 240 = 84 W
You input 100 W, the motor returns 63 W. You input 200 W, the motor returns 84 W because you demand 200 * 0.63 = 126 W but you had capped the motor at 84 W.

Now, use Specialized App and set ECO at 35/100%. You input 100 W and the motor provides 63 W. Input 200 W and the motor will return 126 W (less than 240 or 100%). Input 300 W and you will get 300 * 0.63 = 189 W (still less than 240 W)

The math for other assist levels is equally simple.

Now, setting the SL 1.2 motor to deliver SL 1.1 Turbo:
Assist = 100 * 1.8 /2.1 = 85%
Max Motor Power = 100 * 240 /320 = 75%.

85/75%.

 

[Douglas Ruby]

Ah, ha! Thank you Stefan.

So, what I should do is tinker with this some more on my current VADO SL. I would like to make SPORT mode more useful for me and reduce my dependence on TURBO in my current bike. My thinking, is to set my current bike at something like:

EASE settings:

ECO = 40%, SPORT=75%, TURBO=100%​

MAX POWER settings:

ECO = 60%, SPORT=83%, TURBO=100%​

If I understand this would result in multiplier/maxpower settings of:

• ECO - 0.72X/144W
• SPORT - 1.35X/200W
• TURBO - 1.8X/240W

BTW, what settings do you use?

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Your calculations are correct, Doug!

Regarding my own settings, these depend on the current role of my Vado SL. For instance, my absolute fave is 55/55%. I use it as a default ECO setting (0.99x, 132 W).

I happen to ride a little undulating terrain for about 70 miles and 1200 ft elevation gain sometimes. Here, I tend choosing ECO 40/100% (0.72x, 240 W). My legs are very weak but they can produce more power on climbs. The 100% setting for MAX POWER rewards my increased effort there! Note: I almost always ride with a Range Extender.

My usual SPORT setting is 80/80%, and I use it, for example, to counter strong headwind on my return part of the ride. (I have also used 80/80% for gravel racing, multiple Range Extenders). I keep TURBO at 100/100% for emergencies.

Hope that helps!

 

[Douglas Ruby]

Stefan,

I took a 36 mile ride yesterday and was able to test out new assist settings. My prior settings were 30/55, 50/75, 70/100 based on the incorrect assumption that these were assist "ranges" rather than actual Ease/Maxlevel settings. I found that ECO assist didn't feel a whole lot different from "NO" assist and SPORT felt sluggish. when on rolling hills or trying to stay with stronger riders in headwinds or slight upgrades, so I was spending a lot of each ride in TURBO mode. For the first 1/2 of my ride, the new settings started with ECO, SPORT, and TURBO at 40/60, 75/85, and 100/100 respectively. I found that SPORT mode was much more responsive than the setting I had been using, to the extent that I was averaging nearly 2 mph faster than I had been with the old settings. The ECO setting appeared to be useful for averages in the 12-14 mph range even in rolling hills. The only big issue was that I spent most of my ride in SPORT and it was just a bit too much assist. So for the second 1/2 of my ride I tweaked up the EASE setting on ECO a bit to 50/60 and backed off both the EASE and MAX settings for SPORT to 70/80, leaving TURBO at 100/100. I found riding in ECO was much more comfortable and quite useful. SPORT mode became my "go to" for rolling hills or longer upgrades, and TURBO was only used for steep climbs or when I was trying to catch up to a faster rider.

I want to thank you for educating me on the proper use of the Vado SL assist settings to optimize my SL 1.1 bike. . Understanding how to properly tune the assist settings also helped me rethink about range optimization with the new Vado SL 2 6.0 series. With 200 Wh more battery, I think one could setup ECO and SPORT settings that would keep battery consumption for normal riding at just slightly higher than an SL 1.1 based Vado, reserving the full 50Nm/320W output for "full boogie tilt". I would happily trade-off 100Wh of extra consumption to normal riding while allocating the other 100Wh to more range. I have to believe that it would be possible to use the combined 840 Wh (using my 2xRE's) to get more range, AND more assist than I am currently getting.

Doug

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I like your current settings and am glad I could have helped!

 

[Te. S]

very interesting I think this why these bikes are great, you get to personalize your setting to you and your ability and riding needs , everyone of us rides differently and in different surfaces and conditions. So Like @Stefan Mikes said, I also have two different setting one for street and one for gravel ridding.
street Eeco 25/45 Sport 45/65 Turbo 75/95 Gravel Eco 35/55 Sport 60/80 Turbo 90/100 these work for me. i hardly ever use the Turbo ;-(

 

[JoeDirt]

Yep, I am looking into the new Vado SL 6.0 EQ model.
Does anyone out here have the new model and share any of the positive and negatives from a real world perspective.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Yep, I am looking into the new Vado SL 6.0 EQ model.
Does anyone out here have the new model and share any of the positive and negatives from a real world perspective.

It looks no EBR member has got a Vado SL 2 yet. Although we all say we do not need this new contraption, I can bet everyone would (secretly) like to get one but we all happily ride our Vados SL 1

 

[MartsEbike]

Yep, I am looking into the new Vado SL 6.0 EQ model.
Does anyone out here have the new model and share any of the positive and negatives from a real world perspective.

I'm pretty sure they were all on pre-order. I believe US deliveries start mid-November... and in the UK I think it was March 2025.

So maybe by next week, you'll start seeing them in the wild.

 

[mogulman]

It looks no EBR member has got a Vado SL 2 yet. Although we all say we do not need this new contraption, I can bet everyone would (secretly) like to get one but we all happily ride our Vados SL 1

Too cold here right now!!

 

[JoeDirt]

Well I guess I am the odd duck out! I like light! I like fast!

I'm new on the ebike platform, so I'm going to go into this hoping to get a light and strong class 3 bike for the buck.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I like light! I like fast!

These conditions are usually contradictory. You should also say "I like inexpensive" to complete the sentence

 

[JoeDirt]

Stefan, you opened my eyes to researching the mahle motors that specialized are putting into the bikes. I found out that the designation with an SL on any of these specialized bikes does have the Mahle motor. And I'm reading mixed reviews on this as well. Open my eyes to the Vado SL 6.0 carbon bike. I'll take one for a ride but I'm not sure I'm going to buy into it. That bike is a little bit too pricey! For my wallet.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

Stefan, you opened my eyes to researching the mahle motors that specialized are putting into the bikes. I found out that the designation with an SL on any of these specialized bikes does have the Mahle motor. And I'm reading mixed reviews on this as well. Open my eyes to the Vado SL 6.0 carbon bike. I'll take one for a ride but I'm not sure I'm going to buy into it. That bike is a little bit too pricey! For my wallet.

Please let us know how your test ride goes. Hope you get to try it on some hills like the ones you'll be riding at home.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Stefan, you opened my eyes to researching the mahle motors that specialized are putting into the bikes. I found out that the designation with an SL on any of these specialized bikes does have the Mahle motor. And I'm reading mixed reviews on this as well. Open my eyes to the Vado SL 6.0 carbon bike. I'll take one for a ride but I'm not sure I'm going to buy into it. That bike is a little bit too pricey! For my wallet.

Joe, bear in mind the SL 1.2 is a relatively new motor, not the SL1.1 we all know.

 

[Allan47.7339]

Joe, bear in mind the SL 1.2 is a relatively new motor, not the SL1.2 we all know.

I thought all of the SL 1.2 motors are by Mahle?

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I thought all of the SL 1.2 motors are by Mahle?

A typo.

 

[mschwett]

a good discussion of what’s different between the 1.1 and 1.2 motors. the primary hardware bits are very similar if not identical:

Mahle SL 1.1 to SL 1.2 - What's Possible and What's Different ?

The SL 1.2 is out in the wild with the '23 Levo SL. From what we know so far, mountings and connections are all the same. It works with the existing battery and range extender (shorter 145mm instead of 160mm cable). The motor is slightly larger due to the two piece aluminium honeycomb casing...

www.emtbforums.com

 

[Te. S]

a good discussion of what’s different between the 1.1 and 1.2 motors. the primary hardware bits are very similar if not identical:

Mahle SL 1.1 to SL 1.2 - What's Possible and What's Different ?

The SL 1.2 is out in the wild with the '23 Levo SL. From what we know so far, mountings and connections are all the same. It works with the existing battery and range extender (shorter 145mm instead of 160mm cable). The motor is slightly larger due to the two piece aluminium honeycomb casing...

www.emtbforums.com

interesting Read. I see that some people saying there might be a chance of upgrading Firmware for 1.1 later on, Hope this come true. but not holding my breath