Vado SL 5.1 GQ, a 27.5/650b “Gravel-Queen”

[Stefan Mikes]

Thank you Mr. @e-levity! My Vado SL is currently geometrically optimized. Never before I could ride my SL as comfortably as I can do it now. I am not only quite happy with my riding position as I would like to get still more aero. As you say, further experiments are necessary.

@kahn: I have been trying to ride in pretty upright position for my whole e-biking history. To find out I was all wrong...

 

[kahn]

Thank you Mr. @e-levity! My Vado SL is currently geometrically optimized. Never before I could ride my SL as comfortably as I can do it now. I am not only quite happy with my riding position as I would like to get still more aero. As you say, further experiments are necessary.

@kahn: I have been trying to ride in pretty upright position for my whole e-biking history. To find out I was all wrong...

I am not sure that there is a WRONG position. I think it totally depends on one's own comfort and anatomy. Just because 20-somethings in the Tour de France can go extreme aero does not mean a 60 or 70 year old can use or hold that position. Aerodynamics be damned. My neck rules or I succumb to vertigo and that is just not pleasant and on a bike can be downright dangerous.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I am not sure that there is a WRONG position. I think it totally depends on one's own comfort and anatomy.

WRONG for myself. Let me explain. Riding quite upright was making my bottom suffer. I was getting shoulder and neck aches! After I dramatically dropped the handlebars position, any aches disappeared for me in case of Vado SL, and became less dramatic with the big Vado (I cannot lower the bars in that e-bike any more).

 

[BikeOn]

We decided to convert Mrs levity’s Vado SL EQ to a GQ, i.e. make it a gravel bike “fit for a Queen”.
We used bits we’d saved from her previously modified Vado 6 and Creo to customize a new Medium sized SL:

EQ parts: Remove the lights and fenders since we’re fair weather riders in southern California. Keep the kickstand, it rocks!

Handlebars: Replace the OEM bars with Answer carbon 20/20 bars (20mm rise and 20° sweep for hand and wrist comfort). Bars were shortened to 700mm wide, but are 20mm wider than the OEM bars providing more control leverage.

Handlebar height: Lower the bars to a more aggressive position by flipping the stem down and inverting the bars to give a further 20mm drop. This put the grips level with the seat. Removing the stem spacers and using the 15mm shorter “duckbill” topcap was not enough. A pad was installed on the top tube in case the lower handlebar controls hit during a crash.

Dropper post: PNW 90mm dropper internally routed with Wolftooth bar remote.

Wheels: Light Bicycle carbon rims, i30mm, DT Swiss 350 hubs.

Tires: Panaracer GravelKing SK 27.5 x 1.9. These measure 53mm (almost 2.1”) at 30psi on the i30 rims and have plenty of clearance in the fork, seatstays, and chainstays.

Seat: Ergon Core Prime for the ultimate in comfort.

Some beauty shots -

View attachment 114071

View attachment 114072

and enjoying it in the real world -

View attachment 114073

View attachment 114074

The larger tires provide great traction and extra cushion.

Warning: the wide, low bars and low bottom bracket invite hooliganism!

Thanks again for the great info. I was at a specialized shop today and told them about your post. I did have one additional question. Did you happen to measure pedal height from the ground at the lowest on the 700c vs the 27.5? I know some complain about this issue with the 26B - so wondering if you Queen has noticed a difference?

 

[e-levity]

... Did you happen to measure pedal height from the ground at the lowest on the 700c vs the 27.5? ...

Ok, here are some approximate measurements of the pedal spindle height on mrs levity’s SL, my SL, and a Creo (all with 172,5 crank arms):

Vado SL with 27.5 x 1.9” (actually 2.1”) tires: 105mm
Vado SL with 700 x 47mm tires: 123mm (estimate ~3mm higher than with 700x38 tires)
Creo EVO with 700 x 38mm tires:102mm

So if the stock Vado SL pedal height with 700x38 tires is about 120mm then switching to 27.5x2.0 tires you can expect to lower the pedals by roughly 15mm. Still, the pedals on a Vado SL with 27.5 wheels will be similar to or slightly higher than a standard production Creo with 700 wheels.

We initially thought Mrs levity might want to switch to 165mm cranks (Praxis sells them). However, she has found that this doesn’t seem necessary. Bear in mind that she has good bike handling and cornering skills (as well as a lot of experience avoiding pedal strikes riding mountain bikes!). Specialized cannot assume this will be the case for all target Vado SL riders and for this reason may be reluctant to recommend switching to a smaller wheel size.

 

[BikeOn]

Perfect! - thanks so much for the information. I've ridden the creo and found that pedal height to be fine so that helps.

I sent your info to light bicycle as below and this was their response: Is this correct? So if you change the wheel size do you have to change the cassette and chain and all the other components on the wheel. Sorry - I love riding but not well versed in the mechanical side. Very much appreciate your responses.

What I sent them with question as to their stock, etc...

Wheels: Light Bicycle carbon rims, i30mm, DT Swiss 350 hubs.

Tires: Panaracer GravelKing SK 27.5 x 1.9. These measure 53mm (almost 2.1”) at 30psi on the i30 rims and have plenty of clearance in the fork, seatstays, and chainstays.

Their response:
Thanks for reaching out!
We have 2 models with 30mm external width, which would be your pick?
AM724: Recon series, 24mm internal/30mm external, 24mm deep, 385g+/-15 each, USD154/pc, The wheelset built with DT 350 hubs cost USD831.8/pair before shipping. The estimated weight is 1445g+/-25.
XC725: Recon series, 25mm internal/30mm external, 25mm deep, 285g+/-15 for the flyweight version rim, 345g+/-15 for the standard version rim, USD154/pc, USD259/pc. The wheelset built with DT 350 hubs cost USD1041.8/pair before shipping. The estimated weight is 1305g+/-25.

 

[e-levity]

... So if you change the wheel size do you have to change the cassette and chain and all the other components on the wheel. Sorry - I love riding but not well versed in the mechanical side. Very much appreciate your responses.''

It’s a bit complicated.

Rear wheel - As long as you specify a Shimano Microspline freehub/driver with the rear wheel you will only need to transfer the SLX 12-speed cassette from your OEM wheelset to the new rear wheel.

Front wheel – You need to make sure the supplier can provide endcaps with the hub that accommodate a 12mm axle to fit the Vado 5 fork (15mm is more common).

Disc rotors – If you want to use the rotors from your OEM wheels you need to specify hubs for center-lock disk rotors.

re Light Bicycle reply – I believe they interpreted my “i30” spec you quoted as the rim external width rather than the internal width. In any case the wheelset with AM724 rims (i24) would be fine. There’s no need to go extra-light with the expensive XC725 set. LB also has a nice wheelset with slightly wider AM728 rims (i28mm) for the same price as the AM724 set. It may be the best choice for a carbon wheel set for the Vado SL.

If I were to order or build a new wheelset for the Vado SL I would probably just go with alloy rims, 32 spokes, and alloy nipples. DT Swiss has two good 27.5” rim options: XM 421 (i25mm) and XM481 (i30mm). We built wheels for our Vado 6 bikes a while back with the XM421 rims and were very happy with them using 27.5 x 2.0 and 2.25 tires (see image below). You can order a custom set in the U.S. from ColoradoCyclist.com or Wheelbuiler.com or have someone local build them.

GOOD LUCK!
P.S. Feel free to direct message me (see the “Start Conversation” button) if you need more info. I’m also in So Calif if you need assistance.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Mr. e-levity: Are you showing a modded Vado 6.0 in the picture? I feel I got lost a little bit...

 

[e-levity]

Mr. e-levity: Are you showing a modded Vado 6.0 in the picture? I feel I got lost a little bit...

You’re keeping up on way too many threads, Mr. Mikes!
(Of course we all appreciate that!)

But, yes, that’s my 2018 Vado 6 pictured to show @BikeOn what the DT Swiss XM421 27.5 wheels look like.
More info on the mods can be found here:
https://electricbikereview.com/forums/threads/vado-bado-with-27-5-wheels.26904/#post-183527

 

[BikeOn]

It’s a bit complicated.

Rear wheel - As long as you specify a Shimano Microspline freehub/driver with the rear wheel you will only need to transfer the SLX 12-speed cassette from your OEM wheelset to the new rear wheel.

Front wheel – You need to make sure the supplier can provide endcaps with the hub that accommodate a 12mm axle to fit the Vado 5 fork (15mm is more common).

Disc rotors – If you want to use the rotors from your OEM wheels you need to specify hubs for center-lock disk rotors.

re Light Bicycle reply – I believe they interpreted my “i30” spec you quoted as the rim external width rather than the internal width. In any case the wheelset with AM724 rims (i24) would be fine. There’s no need to go extra-light with the expensive XC725 set. LB also has a nice wheelset with slightly wider AM728 rims (i28mm) for the same price as the AM724 set. It may be the best choice for a carbon wheel set for the Vado SL.

If I were to order or build a new wheelset for the Vado SL I would probably just go with alloy rims, 32 spokes, and alloy nipples. DT Swiss has two good 27.5” rim options: XM 421 (i25mm) and XM481 (i30mm). We built wheels for our Vado 6 bikes a while back with the XM421 rims and were very happy with them using 27.5 x 2.0 and 2.25 tires (see image below). You can order a custom set in the U.S. from ColoradoCyclist.com or Wheelbuiler.com or have someone local build them.

GOOD LUCK!
P.S. Feel free to direct message me (see the “Start Conversation” button) if you need more info. I’m also in So Calif if you need assistance.

View attachment 114726

Thanks so much for the very thorough reply. You are obviously very knowledgeable about bikes, and it is kind of you to take the time to write up all your responses. I'm looking forward to doing a lot of trail riding this summer, as well as portions of the GDMBR, so considering all my options. All the best!

 

[Taylor57]

We decided to convert Mrs levity’s Vado SL EQ to a GQ, i.e. make it a gravel bike “fit for a Queen”.
We used bits we’d saved from her previously modified Vado 6 and Creo to customize a new Medium sized SL:

EQ parts: Remove the lights and fenders since we’re fair weather riders in southern California. Keep the kickstand, it rocks!

Handlebars: Replace the OEM bars with Answer carbon 20/20 bars (20mm rise and 20° sweep for hand and wrist comfort). Bars were shortened to 700mm wide, but are 20mm wider than the OEM bars providing more control leverage.

Handlebar height: Lower the bars to a more aggressive position by flipping the stem down and inverting the bars to give a further 20mm drop. This put the grips level with the seat. Removing the stem spacers and using the 15mm shorter “duckbill” topcap was not enough. A pad was installed on the top tube in case the lower handlebar controls hit during a crash.

Dropper post: PNW 90mm dropper internally routed with Wolftooth bar remote.

Wheels: Light Bicycle carbon rims, i30mm, DT Swiss 350 hubs.

Tires: Panaracer GravelKing SK 27.5 x 1.9. These measure 53mm (almost 2.1”) at 30psi on the i30 rims and have plenty of clearance in the fork, seatstays, and chainstays.

Seat: Ergon Core Prime for the ultimate in comfort.

Some beauty shots -

View attachment 114071

View attachment 114072

and enjoying it in the real world -

View attachment 114073

View attachment 114074

The larger tires provide great traction and extra cushion.

Warning: the wide, low bars and low bottom bracket invite hooliganism!

Love Borrego Springs! We stay at the Zorro and I golf at Rams Hill.

 

[e-levity]

Love Borrego Springs! We stay at the Zorro and I golf at Rams Hill.

Agree! Here's my Vado SL posing beneath one of Ricardo Breceda's "mammoth"sculptures near La Casa del Zorro

 

[Nubnub]

EQ parts: Remove the lights and fenders since we’re fair weather riders in southern California. Keep the kickstand, it rocks!

Did you remove the rear fender permanently? I see the power wiring goes into the motor area. Is it possible to remove the motor covering and disconnect the rear light power connector for possible reinstallation later? Also looks like you removed the rack. It seems the rack/fender support each other but would it have been possible to keep the rack installed without the fender?

Also, in another post you indicated that end caps were available for 15 mm front hubs so that a 12 mm axle could be used. Do you have a link to a source for these? I searched Amazon but all I found were 100mm long sleeves.

 

[e-levity]

Hi @Nubnub -

We removed both the rack and fender. Because they provide support to one another you have to keep or lose both. We cut the taillight wire at the base of the fender, taped both ends, and tucked the bike end under the motor cover. We would need to add connectors to restore the rack light, but it’s so weak that we would just use some other rear light.

Here’s a link to the end cap adapters we used:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B018HHIT6Y/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_api_i_B8ZSDMFP3HBXZE8NBZAX?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

 

[SHAKEYSTART]

Awesome thread! I have a Creo SL, which come with drop bars. I would like to go to flat bars now. What would you suggest for parts? I know brake levers, bar, but not sure about shifter stuff. Thanks.

 

[BikeOn]

Hi @Nubnub -

We removed both the rack and fender. Because they provide support to one another you have to keep or lose both. We cut the taillight wire at the base of the fender, taped both ends, and tucked the bike end under the motor cover. We would need to add connectors to restore the rack light, but it’s so weak that we would just use some other rear light.

Here’s a link to the end cap adapters we used:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B018HHIT6Y/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_api_i_B8ZSDMFP3HBXZE8NBZAX?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

Hi - I also removed my fenders so I could put stubby tires on - but the LBS (specialized shop) rigged up a bracket from another bike to hold the rack in place. I'm thankful to have the rack and it does not inhibit the tire size. Also I ordered another tail light unit which comes with the cord attached, and when I get time the shop will wire it in, so I can get the tail light back on. Currently I use a LED rechargeable tail light. Anyway - I just wanted to let you know if you find an appropriate bracket you can easily attach the rack. I've ridden it almost a 1000 miles since the changes and it's worked great. If I run across the info on the bracket he used which was perfect- I will post it.

 

[mschwett]

Awesome thread! I have a Creo SL, which come with drop bars. I would like to go to flat bars now. What would you suggest for parts? I know brake levers, bar, but not sure about shifter stuff. Thanks.

depends which drivetrain you have. which model creo?

a word of warning... everyone i know who has switched a drop bar bike to a flat bar has found the geometry to be somewhat strange.

 

[BioWheel]

depends which drivetrain you have. which model creo?

a word of warning... everyone i know who has switched a drop bar bike to a flat bar has found the geometry to be somewhat strange.

I have a Cannondale Synapse I switched to flat bar. No problem - great bike either way. Thinking about this though, I'd love my VadoSL to have carbon frame. I could just buy a Creo SL and switch over the bars and stem to correct geometry a bit. Could go S-Works and have a $15k flat bar beast at 28lbs. Tempting. Waiting to see what's up for 2023.

 

[mschwett]

I have a Cannondale Synapse I switched to flat bar. No problem - great bike either way. Thinking about this though, I'd love my VadoSL to have carbon frame. I could just buy a Creo SL and switch over the bars and stem to correct geometry a bit. Could go S-Works and have a $15k flat bar beast at 28lbs. Tempting. Waiting to see what's up for 2023.

nice. my best riding friend switched over a nice niner steel gravel bike and had to go with a ridiculously long stem to get the seat to bar dimension even close. if you look at the hood placement of a drop bar bike relative to the stem, you'll see what i mean! maybe with a slightly larger frame to start with, and a long stem, it works better.

 

[kahn]

I have a Cannondale Synapse I switched to flat bar. No problem - great bike either way. Thinking about this though, I'd love my VadoSL to have carbon frame. I could just buy a Creo SL and switch over the bars and stem to correct geometry a bit. Could go S-Works and have a $15k flat bar beast at 28lbs. Tempting. Waiting to see what's up for 2023.

The PRICE!