Vado SL 4.0 Deore drivetrain upgrade suggestions

[LazyJ]

'21 model with 4,400 miles, battery 100%. The Deore 10s developed stiction in the clutch which chewed up two tension wheels before I figured out what was going on. Tinkered with the clutch and got disgusted, I want to retire it and hopefully upgrade.

Help a snowbound Arkansan here - HG driver, 10 or 11s, 11/42t higher maybe but no 10t, model preference GX, XT, NX

NX 11 with the SunRace 11-42t appears to be pnp (please confirm) since Spec used this on some models and I do consider NX an upgrade, but shouldn't that same SunRace work with GX 11 mech? If not, any other options within criteria?

 

[stompandgo]

Can your HG freehub handle 12s?

 

[LazyJ]

Can your HG freehub handle 12s?

There might be a wildcat 12s that would work on HG? but would likely include 1 or 2 big cogs I'd never use so I haven't looked in that direction yet. I just found a Shimano M8000 11s 11-42t exists so I'm going to study that option also.

 

[stompandgo]

Most 11s HG hubs can handle 12s, you don't need that funky HG L2 freehub. The reason I'm asking is that you wanted to upgrade, and if that's the case, go 12s now. You can get a 10-51 with M8100 or M8200, mechanical or Di2, which can be wired to your main battery.

 

[LazyJ]

11s in XT or GX will be a huge upgrade for bike and myself, lol. 11-42/44 Shimano M8000-11 cassettes have my attention, assuming that works ez with no shims or filing to whatever HG thats on a 10s Vado SL?

 

[BlackHand]

Most 11s HG hubs can handle 12s, you don't need that funky HG L2 freehub. The reason I'm asking is that you wanted to upgrade, and if that's the case, go 12s now. You can get a 10-51 with M8100 or M8200, mechanical or Di2, which can be wired to your main battery.

Does Shimano make 12s cassettes that fit regular HG for 1x drivetrains? I think the only HG 12s they offer are road bike range, so OP would be limited to 11-36, and maybe a spacer?, unless he changes out his hub for microspline. Possibly complicated by the fact that his bike uses road boost sizing I think...

There might be a wildcat 12s that would work on HG? but would likely include 1 or 2 big cogs I'd never use so I haven't looked in that direction yet. I just found a Shimano M8000 11s 11-42t exists so I'm going to study that option also.

I run the M8000 on both my bikes. The XT derailleur has been good up to 15000 miles, but the clutch it's starting to get sticky and the tension wheel needs replaced. Over 15300 on it and a lot of wet mucky commuting and gritty summer gravel rides, so no complaints here.

I like the M8000 cassettes better than the SLC M7000. A little lighter and can be found on sale for not much more $. Personally, I like the 11-42: I never used the 46t when I had the 11-46. The 11-40 is nice, but every once in a while I found myself wishing for a bit of a taller gear.

I think you'll need a new shifter too because the pull pull from a 10s shifter would be wrong for 11s I think. At that point, you should consider the jump to 12s if you are already on the hook for a cassette, derailleur, and shifter. But again, not sure what's involved in converting your hub to microspline.

 

[stompandgo]

Yes, you are correct. The mountain 12s cassettes all went to Microspline. So maybe going with a Deore M5100 RD and 11-51 cassette and staying with 11s is best.

 

[BlackHand]

Hard to argue with that value for $160, though the 11-51 wouldn't work for me personally. I think a XT/SLX combo could be put together al la carte from Jenson for about $70 more.

Shimano Deore M5100 Mountain Bike Groupset (Black) (1 x 11 Speed)

Shimano Deore M5100 Mountain Bike Groupset Description: Looking for an affordable and modern upgrade to your mountain bike? Look no... SHIMANODEM5100GRP1-BDL

www.performancebike.com

 

[Stefan Mikes]

So maybe going with a Deore M5100 RD and 11-51 cassette and staying with 11s is best.

Hard to argue with that value for $160, though the 11-51 wouldn't work for me personally. I think a XT/SLX combo could be put together al la carte from Jenson for about $70 more.

Shimano Deore M5100 Mountain Bike Groupset (Black) (1 x 11 Speed)

Shimano Deore M5100 Mountain Bike Groupset Description: Looking for an affordable and modern upgrade to your mountain bike? Look no... SHIMANODEM5100GRP1-BDL

www.performancebike.com

I didn't feel I liked participating in this thread until I saw the posts from you, Chris and Steve.
What I did to my Vado SL with the 10-speed Deore was exactly this. Replacing the drivetrain with a Shimano CS-M5100 11-speed 11-51T cassette, the derailleur being replaced with the RD-M5100, and the shifter swapped for SL-M5100, right hand side, 11-speed. The cost was equivalent to USD163 in 2024. Additionally, I installed a smaller 38T chainring and a new chain.

Could not be any happier. The cassette fit the HG freehub body ideally.

 

[stompandgo]

I'm glad it worked out for you.

 

[LazyJ]

Blackhand, thanks for confirming the M8000 is indeed an option, gets me exactly where I want to be.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

FWIW, my Vado 6.,0 is equipped with the 11-s M8000 drivetrain, the 11-46T version of the cassette... Up to 11s and with the 11T smallest cassette cog, all HG freehubs are compatible. The need of the freehub driver is pertaining to the 12-speed drivetrains and the 10T smallest cassette cog. Of course I could have installed the M8000 instead of M5100 on my Vado SL but where's the gain? Less gearing ratio, higher cost, and only more equal gear spread for the top gears?

 

[LazyJ]

M5100 was considered, certainly affordable. But noticing pulley wheels are bushings not bearings, warned me the groupset was not the quality level I was after. Putting $20 Ultegra pulleys I had laying around on the Deore I have was a tremendous upgrade in shift quality but I want the complete performance package.

Never done a thru-frame cable replace on any bike, gotta make sure I understand that before I order. If anyone has reassuring thoughts on that please tell. And just realized seems silly to bolt a new mech on an old d-hanger, need a spare anyway

 

[BEC111]

FWIW, my Vado 6.,0 is equipped with the 11-s M8000 drivetrain, the 11-46T version of the cassette... Up to 11s and with the 11T smallest cassette cog, all HG freehubs are compatible. The need of the freehub driver is pertaining to the 12-speed drivetrains and the 10T smallest cassette cog. Of course I could have installed the M8000 instead of M5100 on my Vado SL but where's the gain? Less gearing ratio, higher cost, and only more equal gear spread for the top gears?

I’m throwing a curve on this discussion. What are the thoughts on replacing Deore (which is being fazed out at this level anyway) with Cues which supposedly has smoother shifting and longer life. I’m not that concerned about wearing out. My drive train is approaching 9000 miles and other than replacing the chain twice has low wear.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

VERY impressed with the drivetrain expertise on display in this thread. Learning a lot. Eager to see the OP's results.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

M5100 was considered, certainly affordable. But noticing pulley wheels are bushings not bearings, warned me the groupset was not the quality level I was after. Putting $20 Ultegra pulleys I had laying around on the Deore I have was a tremendous upgrade in shift quality but I want the complete performance package.

Yes, the oversized pulleys are made with bushings. While I don't care about it (and replaced the pulleys once, I think), I would be the last person to discourage you from installing the Deore XT M8000. Only take care to order the 11-46T (not the 11-42T) cassette.

Never done a thru-frame cable replace on any bike, gotta make sure I understand that before I order. If anyone has reassuring thoughts on that please tell. And just realized seems silly to bolt a new mech on an old d-hanger, need a spare anyway

Perhaps your existing cable could do. I had mine replaced with a new Jagwire cable, and also had the shifter as well as the derailleur installed by my private bike mechanic

I’m throwing a curve on this discussion. What are the thoughts on replacing Deore (which is being fazed out at this level anyway) with Cues which supposedly has smoother shifting and longer life. I’m not that concerned about wearing out. My drive train is approaching 9000 miles and other than replacing the chain twice has low wear.

Cannot help you with that. I've never worked on a CUES drivetrain. Others might help though.

 

[RunForTheHills]

I haven't worked with CUES either, but I understand it uses a different cable pull ratio than the Deore. So you would be replacing the shifter and cassette as well as the derailleur. At that point, I would consider installing an upgraded system rather than the entry level CUES. Although I am sure the CUES will work just fine.

 

[stompandgo]

M5100 was considered, certainly affordable. But noticing pulley wheels are bushings not bearings, warned me the groupset was not the quality level I was after. Putting $20 Ultegra pulleys I had laying around on the Deore I have was a tremendous upgrade in shift quality but I want the complete performance package.

Never done a thru-frame cable replace on any bike, gotta make sure I understand that before I order. If anyone has reassuring thoughts on that please tell. And just realized seems silly to bolt a new mech on an old d-hanger, need a spare anyway

The pulleys last a long time and are cheap to replace. Worry about other things.

Get the Park IR-1.3 internal routing kit. You can always try snaking out the old housing with a spare inner wire, but if you get the kit, it gives you several options in case one doesn't work. Beware, that with some internal battery bikes, you may need to drop the motor and remove the battery to unhook the cable housing from clips in the frame that prevent rattling. Check your bike documentation.

Of course, you can avoid a lot of this by upgrading to Deore or Deore XT Di2. Wired to the main battery, or wireless. M8160 or M8260.

 

[LazyJ]

I remember seeing cable clips around the battery, crap, thx for that thought. I took the motor out in October thinking I had broken a sprag clutch pawl on a nasty pedal clipin that freaked the motor out for a few seconds. What I found was a pencil size stick inside the housing giving me a click on every rotation lol. Having already talked to the motor shop in Tennessee, them saying they never see issues except belt wear with this motor I went ahead and sent it in for inspect, re-lube, and new belt. $300 plus ship and the whine is gone, clutch engages smoother, good folks.

Would love wireless but my hatred for 12s runs deep, going back to 2x5's going 2x6 and more recently with a '19 Stumpjumbler Expert GX12, never shifted a bike so much in my life, couldn't stick on a cadence... no more 12s nor rear suspension for me

M8000 goodies are ordered, still snowed in, new tires going on the XC bike (GX11) today. Vittoria Peyotes, never had one of their tires but its fun to say Peyote and they smell delicious

 

[LazyJ]