Vado SL 12v car charger

[Mixyblob]

Is there such a thing?
I have one, its a BMW supplied charger but is for my standard Vado with the magnetic Rosenburger plug and socket. I was wondering if there is one available for the Vado SL.

 

[Art Deco]

I wasn't aware there was one even for the normal Vado or Como . But if it's BMW branded, it's going to be pricey...

 

[TS25]

Powerbutler has developed a 12V universal charging system for ebikes. You could enquire there:
www.powerbutler.de

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Powerbutler has developed a 12V universal charging system für ebikes. You could enquire there:
www.powerbutler.de

It does not look like they can handle Specialized 48 V SL batteries though.
(Long time no see!)

 

[TS25]

Quote from their homepage:
"Special versions in 26V or 48V can also be offered in the future"
Best to ask them directly when to expect if at all.

 

[Art Deco]

Powerbutler has developed a 12V universal charging system for ebikes. You could enquire there:
www.powerbutler.de

I've been wondering why there wasn't a 12 volt charger available for my van. Being able to charge my eBikes while driving or overnight without shore power or running the d@#n generator all night is a huge deal to me. Thanks @TS25 .

 

[Seeya]

I've been wondering why there wasn't a 12 volt charger available for my van. Being able to charge my eBikes while driving or overnight without shore power or running the d@#n generator all night is a huge deal to me. Thanks @TS25 .

Couldn’t one use the charger that comes with the bike and a 12V to 110V inverter? The charger that came with my Creo has an input amperage of 2.5 amps which would be well within the range of a 1000 watt inverter.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

or overnight

Not sure what the size of your van's battery is but it was 12 V/72 Ah = 864 Wh in mine. Taken into account the efficiency of the energy conversion, one might wake up with a flat car's battery if, for instance, a 600 Wh e-bike battery were charged overnight from van's battery only.

I got into a similar situation once. I was camping during summer heat-wave and running a portable fridge from the car's battery. The car's battery was permanently connected to a charger in the camping site. I missed the fact the charger got overheated and it got thermally switched off... At the end of the day I was unable to start the engine!

 

[Art Deco]

Yes, but the inverter losses to run a 1000 (or even my 400) watt inverter is substantial. This is a DC to DC charger.

 

[Art Deco]

Not sure what the size of your van's battery is but it was 12 V/72 Ah = 864 Wh in mine. Taken into account the efficiency of the energy conversion, one might wake up with a flat car's battery if, for instance, a 600 Wh e-bike battery were charged overnight from van's battery only.

I got into a similar situation once. I was camping during summer heat-wave and running a portable fridge from the car's battery. The car's battery was permanently connected to a charger in the camping site. I missed the fact the charger got overheated and it got thermally switched off... At the end of the day I was unable to start the engine!

I have a separate AGM deep cycle battery for the "house" electrical stuff, but it's only about 100 amp hours, meaning I can only use about 50 amp hours. When driving the alternator puts out way more power than I can store.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I have a separate AGM deep cycle battery for the "house" electrical stuff, but it's only about 100 amp hours, meaning I can only use about 50 amp hours. When driving the alternator puts out way more power than I can store.

No doubt you could charge your e-bike battery while driving!

 

[TS25]

Not sure what the size of your van's battery is but it was 12 V/72 Ah = 864 Wh in mine. Taken into account the efficiency of the energy conversion, one might wake up with a flat car's battery if, for instance, a 600 Wh e-bike battery were charged overnight from van's battery only.

Que?
Ah = Wh / V

So your 36V ebike-battery with 600 Wh needs app. 16,7 Ah (600 / 36) for a full load (which won't happen any time at all) + lets say 20% loss if even.

That shouldn't be a problem for a healthy decent car battery if it's recharged the other day by driving. My cars battery at 110 Ah capacity would just laugh about that little consumption for recharging the ebike battery (which is more likely by app. 10 - 12 Ah).

 

[Art Deco]

Que?
Ah = Wh / V

So your 36V ebike-battery with 600 Wh needs app. 16,7 Ah (600 / 36) for a full load (which won't happen any time at all) + lets say 20% loss if even.

That shouldn't be a problem for a healthy decent car battery if it's recharged the other day by driving. My cars battery at 110 Ah capacity would just laugh about that little consumption for recharging the ebike battery (which is more likely by app. 10 - 12 Ah).

What's the approximate 20% loss for ? That's what I expected for converting 12 volt DC to 110 volt AC and then stepping back down to 36 volt DC, but I was hoping to avoid that by going DC to DC direct.

I am not an EE, electricity is something that I don't have any depth of knowledge about, sorry.

 

[mschwett]

Que?
Ah = Wh / V

So your 36V ebike-battery with 600 Wh needs app. 16,7 Ah (600 / 36) for a full load (which won't happen any time at all) + lets say 20% loss if even.

That shouldn't be a problem for a healthy decent car battery if it's recharged the other day by driving. My cars battery at 110 Ah capacity would just laugh about that little consumption for recharging the ebike battery (which is more likely by app. 10 - 12 Ah).

yes, Ah = Wh / V, but if the battery is 60 Ah and 12v, that means it's only 720Wh. 60 = 720/12.

easier for these purposes to think about it as Wh = Ah x V. to charge a 600Wh eBike battery from a car battery requires 600 = Ah x V. V is 12. 600 = 50 x 12.

Typical car battery is 60-105Ah, and of course 12v. So 720Wh-1,260Wh. Not enough to reliably charge up a fully depleted big eBike battery, whether DC to DC or DC to AC to DC.

 

[mschwett]

What's the approximate 20% loss for ? That's what I expected for converting 12 volt DC to 110 volt AC and then stepping back down to 36 volt DC, but I was hoping to avoid that by going DC to DC direct.

I am not an EE, electricity is something that I don't have any depth of knowledge about, sorry.

there is always a loss. DC to DC is more like 10% than 20% though.

 

[Art Deco]

there is always a loss. DC to DC is more like 10% than 20% though.

Sure. I expect some loss from the charger itself, but 20 % just seemed like a lot. I am just learning how constrained my battery setup is in my van.
I may have to add another "house" battery, but the price of good deep cycle batteries is almost Specialized level pricing.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

@TS25:
First of all, there are always energy losses on energy conversion.
Secondly, charging just one big e-bike battery would leave not that very much charge in the car's battery in the morning. And you need a burst of several hundred A to just start the engine.
Thirdly: Fancy you have charged your e-bike battery overnight from the car's battery. What will you do on the next day? Ride your e-bike for several hours (your objective) and leave the car's engine running for the day unassisted to replenish its battery?

I'm saying all of this because it is how my e-bike vacations look like:

• I drive for a day to get from my place to the mountains.
• I make a medium range distance e-bike ride to understand the nature of the area. Charging the battery overnight.
• I ride for a big distance the day after. Then I drive to the next destination (it is relatively short trip). Need to recharge two batteries overnight.
• I ride for another big distance on another day. And so on and so on.

I tried to fancy charging my e-bike batteries from the car battery, and it looks like the energy balance would be on the negative side. I simply need an access to the electrical socket between the rides. Or a gasoline generator.

See the pictures below to understand why charging e-bike batteries from the car's battery seems unpractical to me.

Car trip from Warsaw, e-bike riding in Sudeten.

5 hotel stays, 6 e-bike trips.

Car trip from Warsaw, e-bike riding in the Beskids.

Four hotel stays, five e-bike trips. I wouldn't be able to replenish the car's battery by driving the car anywhere (except of the trip back home).

 

[TS25]

What's the approximate 20% loss for ? That's what I expected for converting 12 volt DC to 110 volt AC and then stepping back down to 36 volt DC, but I was hoping to avoid that by going DC to DC direct.

I am not an EE, electricity is something that I don't have any depth of knowledge about, sorry.

there is always a loss. DC to DC is more like 10% than 20% though.

I wrote 20% loss if even because it didn't really matter for my argument, and I was lazy as it was in the middle of night (local time), sorry. I am not an EE, too.
Agreed that converting 12V to 36V DC is more like 10% loss (estimated).

Not enough to reliably charge up a fully depleted big eBike battery, whether DC to DC or DC to AC to DC.

You won't manage to recharge a fully depleted ebike battery due to the fact that it's dead by then.
Any decent car battery can provide the 10 - 12 Ah practical recharging comsumption without a problem, at least once. If you need more, recharge while driving or get a lithium battery, or get a PV device to put behind your cars windscreen:

Solartaschen

Das Original - die Solartaschen WATTSTUNDE SunFolder und SolarBuddy. Leicht, modern und überall verwendbar - Die WATTSTUNDE SunFolder Solartasche ist dank des innovativen Designs sehr leicht, platzsparend und bietet ein hohes Maß an Flexibilität und Einsetzbarkeit.

www.wattstunde.de

The WS180SF has an average daily solar yield of 1080 Wh. Your car battery could be fully loaded again before you get up (unless you're an early bird).

I'm saying all of this because it is how my e-bike vacations look like:
...

5 hotel stays, 6 e-bike trips.

Four hotel stays, five e-bike trips. I wouldn't be able to replenish the car's battery by driving the car anywhere (except of the trip back home).

I wouldn't even bother to think about charging my ebike battery in the car if on a hotel round trip, why should you?
It's cheaper and easier to recharge your ebike battery in your hotel room. As long as you can take out your ebike battery from the frame, or find another solution for the Vado SL in the hotel garage.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

It would be practical @TS25 if you described a scenario of your own vacation tour during which you could rely on your car only (possibly with solar panels) re e-bike battery charging.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Yes, yes I can see Tom's vacation. He's been charging his e-bike battery for the whole night from the car's battery (with the Unicorn Satiator of course). On the next day, Tom gets into his car and drives it for several hours to recharge the car's battery from the alternator.

I would prefer be riding my e-bike instead. The energetic/time balance of the whole concept is on the negative side, that's it.

Besides, Tom, I do like TS25 (but not you). I click "like" to indicate I have read a post (and am not against it).