scrambler
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- Bay Area, CA
Surron is in a different league power wise...
If included you would have to include LMX-64, SEM Venom, or even Boxxbike
And that would not be fair
Ultra hill climbing comparison
- Thread starter Deacon Blues
- Start date
If included you would have to include LMX-64, SEM Venom, or even Boxxbike
And that would not be fair
I don’t think Luna’s magic sauce for ultra is better than WW. But sure. Sur Ron isn’t a bicycle. The R15C is no longer made, replaced by the R17 which is a $14k bike… and the motor is not production line… it is hand made.
The more the merrier, I'm not sure that comparing the Bafang M620 to the Brose S Mag 2.1 is fair either. That comparison is like when Kramer went to the kids karate class. Bafang can't pretend to be top dog if it will compete with only puppies.Surron is in a different league power wise...
If included you would have to include LMX-64, SEM Venom, or even Boxxbike
And that would not be fair
Well hell then, let’s get some fuel cars in the mix
What exactly is this "fade in/out" that you keep mentioning? Under what sort of conditions do you notice it?
theemartymac
Well-Known Member
The power delivery in the stock profile is not well matched to the real world need. Start climbing a hill for example and it's all torque at the bottom, but doesn't ramp up smoothly to keep your rpms stable until you apply significant pressure on the torque sensor. Unless you really put your legs into it, you inevitably lose enough speed to need to downshift, and then it all repeats in the next gear. You can increase the PAS level to maintain that speed, but then it's overpowered at times when you don't need it.
Also, the power delivery is very on-and-off, and you notice every change. With the Frey Smooth tune, I can't usually tell when the power starts and stops and it matches my cadence well, ramping up power delivery very smoothly when needed so a small hill feels exactly the same as the flat. I find I never need to touch the PAS setting during a ride anymore, and almost never use the throttle other than an occasional start from a dead stop in traffic where I want a bit of a hard launch to get out in front. Likewise, when I back off the pedals, the power fades out naturally and smoothly, so I don't feel a sudden stall in assistance. It also starts very smoothly off the line, and doesn't give me the surge of initial power that wants to take the bike out of my hands like the stock tune did.
There is really no comparison. The smooth tune makes my cheaper bike feel much more like a premium one.
That all makes sense. I started tuning mine very soon after getting it (largely based on the Frey tune) so I've been enjoying the benefits you mention for most of my time with the bike. I was more wondering about mentioned fade in/out issues that couldn't be fixed by tuning.
AHicks
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- Snow Bird - Summer S.E. Michigan, Winter Gulf Coast North Central Fl.
The fading in and out is EASILY dialed out with some tuning. It's no longer an issue with the "Smooth" tune. Anyone referring to it is usually talking about the stock tune, as supplied by Bafang. I suppose they could also be talking about one of those early "my tune is better" tunes as well, where the surging really hadn't been seen as a priority.
ElevenAD
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- Ringoes New Jersey
The Suron is an electric motor cycle but i would love to see more on the Optibike motor and a Head to head climb with a Hydra and an Apollo would be sweet!
ElevenAD
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- Ringoes New Jersey
I agree 100% its an Electric Motor cycle.Surron is in a different league power wise...
If included you would have to include LMX-64, SEM Venom, or even Boxxbike
And that would not be fair
Merle Nelson
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- Region
- USA
I haven't recieved an Ultra motor yet so speak zero from experience on that. But the descriptions that some people give of motor adding its power so smoothly it feels like you have bionic legs etc. sound positively compelling.
Edit: After being "properly" tuned.
Edit: After being "properly" tuned.
AHicks
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- Snow Bird - Summer S.E. Michigan, Winter Gulf Coast North Central Fl.
Therin lies the problem. What's turned out to be a HUGE deal with the Ultra is the actual ability to tune it. Those that have the UART versions just kind of took that capability for granted. It soon became a HUGE factor as the CANBUS motors started showing up - with no way to tune them available......
Fingers crossed we'll see that short coming fixed very soon. Otherwise the Ultra motor idea is going to die way back. I doubt it will be an "if". Way more likely be a "when".
I agree. I have a hard time believing that Bafang isn’t aware of this.
ElevenAD
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- Ringoes New Jersey
They have to be aware but i have tried to look at this objectively from a few different angles and i still really cant see how this move helps Bafang?
Merle Nelson
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- USA
FU round eyes may feel like a help to some. I have read here that if you look at the North American market it is a tiny fraction of Bafang business. And if you look at the self tuners that is much smaller portion yet.
(But, I don't really know anything about it.)
(But, I don't really know anything about it.)
Merle Nelson
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- USA
Does anyone know for sure, is having an Archon X1 controller installed an end run around the issue for the CANBUS not being easily programmable?
AHicks
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- Snow Bird - Summer S.E. Michigan, Winter Gulf Coast North Central Fl.
The move to CANBUS you mean. I agree 100%. The fact you can tune the earlier ones was a huge piece of their popularity.
Regarding the Ultra, and the other mid drive big blocks too really, are a tiny piece of production, the thing to keep in mind is that they are only sold stateside. They're WAY too big to meet standards set everywhere else. Unless they make them viable, attractive to the market, all of the development that's gone into bringing them this far is a complete waste.
I think the way things are right now, the Archon requires that you supply them with a UART based motor. I may have that wrong though...
theemartymac
Well-Known Member
There have been a few posts in other recent threads from the US suppliers/builders mentioning that they are working on this with Bafang as we speak. I truly suspect it’s just a matter of time. There is no value to Bafang to try and go the way of Bosch with locked down hardware, and even Bosch has just announced a whole new order of tunability on the new motors. That’s obviously what builders and users want.
Acme
Well-Known Member
I can’t figure out how to copy this from Facebook so you will have to look it up but this is pretty close to what it feels like riding with standard euro spec bikes. The video just shows how much more power the Ultra has. However when it comes to tight technical sections or bombing downhill I would rather have the lighter more maneuverable bike.
