UK supplier for better spokes?

[Haystacks]

Second time lucky

Spokes

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[Lukejolyon]

88 Byne Rd?

Eh?

 

[Lukejolyon]

Second time lucky

Spokes

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Sorry I am perhaps misrepresenting the problem to all you helpful folk. I think the problem is:

1) I need extra strong spokes
2) I need these to be non-standard length due to the size of motor hub

It is being both non-standard and extra-strong spokes that seems to be in short supply....

 

[fooferdoggie]

Sorry I am perhaps misrepresenting the problem to all you helpful folk. I think the problem is:

1) I need extra strong spokes
2) I need these to be non-standard length due to the size of motor hub

It is being both non-standard and extra-strong spokes that seems to be in short supply....

the spokes would be and always need to be cut to length they only come in one length. the dt double butted spokes will be very strong as long as the wheel is built well.

 

[Lukejolyon]

the spokes would be and always need to be cut to length they only come in one length. the dt double butted spokes will be very strong as long as the wheel is built well.

Thanks - and where do you get yours from?

 

[AHicks]

the spokes would be and always need to be cut to length they only come in one length. the dt double butted spokes will be very strong as long as the wheel is built well.

Not always. Wheelbuilder stocks many types/sizes in 2mm (even) increments. They do offer custom lengths as well, which is likely going to be the case with rear hub wheels. Pretty inexpensive to get that done though.

 

[john peck]

If your rear hub breaks spokes regularly, you may have had to remove the brake disc to replace a spoke.
Disc brakes can put enormous stress on spokes, even more so with a torquey e-motor. Having had to
remove discs to seat a spoke became a horror show for me recently when the screw threads for the disc stripped.
It was not possible to replace the disc. Had my motor wheel become useless??? Fortunately, I had a set of heavy- duty mtn. bike caliper rim brakes & a wheel that would take either rims or discs. The caliper works beautifully! The
stress is now transferred more to the rim & less on the spokes. I won´t need to remove a disc to change a spoke,
& I won´t need a new motorwheel. It´s a win win!.

 

[Lukejolyon]

If your rear hub breaks spokes regularly, you may have had to remove the brake disc to replace a spoke.
Disc brakes can put enormous stress on spokes, even more so with a torquey e-motor. Having had to
remove discs to seat a spoke became a horror show for me recently when the screw threads for the disc stripped.
It was not possible to replace the disc. Had my motor wheel become useless??? Fortunately, I had a set of heavy- duty mtn. bike caliper rim brakes & a wheel that would take either rims or discs. The caliper works beautifully! The
stress is now transferred more to the rim & less on the spokes. I won´t need to remove a disc to change a spoke,
& I won´t need a new motorwheel. It´s a win win!.

I had not thought of that and yes, my Orbea not only has disc brakes but hydraulic ones - both systems new to me. No doubt adds to the problem.

 

[Lukejolyon]

I've actually had a response now from these guys: https://www.electricbikesales.co.uk/

They say they can rebuilt the wheel with Sapim Double-Butted spokes - will take 2 weeks and cost £130-£150. Will need wheel to be posted to their wheelbuilding place in York.

Sounds reasonable, but again - grateful for views from you guys who know much more than me about all these things.....

 

[john peck]

I had not thought of that and yes, my Orbea not only has disc brakes but hydraulic ones - both systems new to me. No doubt adds to the problem.

No doubt about it, hydraulics will stop a bike...even if your body continues forward. They can be almost
too powerful in addition to being hard on spokes. My 1st ebike had them. After getting tossed over the
bars I came to use them in a more frugal fashion. That bike became a parts bike after the spoke bores
became so worn as to make the motor useless.(at least for a bicycle wheel, maybe a ceiling fan)

 

[Lukejolyon]

No doubt about it, hydraulics will stop a bike...even if your body continues forward. They can be almost
too powerful in addition to being hard on spokes. My 1st ebike had them. After getting tossed over the
bars I came to use them in a more frugal fashion. That bike became a parts bike after the spoke bores
became so worn as to make the motor useless.(at least for a bicycle wheel, maybe a ceiling fan)

Isn’t that more of an effect of disc brakes rather than hydraulics? With hydraulics you can actually squeeze them more gently - like car brakes - and control the amount of stopping power. But with discs if you jam them on hard - whether hydraulic or not - the bike will react harshly. I guess.

 

[john peck]

Isn’t that more of an effect of disc brakes rather than hydraulics? With hydraulics you can actually squeeze them more gently - like car brakes - and control the amount of stopping power. But with discs if you jam them on hard - whether hydraulic or not - the bike will react harshly. I guess.

In essence hydraulics double you grip strength. You clamp down on ´em & the bike ´will´stop.!

 

[Lukejolyon]

HI folks. No idea if anyone is still following this/that bothered, but I stuck with my LBS in the end and gave them time - it's not their fault deliveries worldwide are completely messed up, after all. They did a wonderful job and I my backwheel now looks like the attached images. No idea what kind of spokes these are (double butted or whatever) but the 'lacing' pattern is I think 3-cross, making for a much stronger wheel. Will post updates if any of the new ones break. Incidentally at c.£100 for the job my LBS was also much cheaper than electricbikesales.co.uk.

 

[AHicks]

Looks like they did a great job. Spokes shouldn't be giving you any more trouble!

 

[vitabrick]

You seem to have lots of replies, so I'm sure that you've already found your solution. But I'll throw my two bob's worth in anyway. For what its worth, I've built thousands of spoked wheels of all types. Stainless is all the go these days, but don't turn your nose up at zinc plated. I bought some spokes cheap off the internet last year, which went really easily and quickly. But the spokes which were (and possibly are) supposed to be stainless, were painted black. A case of buying a pig in a poke. If you are happy with the current pattern, measure the length from the inside of the bend to the tip. You probably already know this if you've been breaking heaps. You'll be stuck with whatever number of spokes you have, and I'll assume 36, so increasing the number is not an option. But you could go up to 13, possibly even 12 gauge spokes, which are enormously strong compared to 14s. You won't find these at your regular bike shop. Think motorcycle supplies if you hit a dead end. Don't worry about aero profiles. The only caveat is the space available in the rim for the nipple. Plain rims can be easily drilled out, but if a modular rim won't take it, it will have to be replaced.

 

[Lukejolyon]

Thank you Vitabrick - think it’s fair to say my LBS found my solution for me. Only one 18 mile commute so far but the wheel seems more solid. No idea what kind of spokes were used! Not sure if you can ascertain from the pics.

 

[vitabrick]

They appear to be plain gauge spokes, which is a good thing in my books. So many people crapping on about the virtues of double butted spokes. Personally, I haven't even seen any in decades, and IMO were always crap (forever having to tension them due to stretch). Aero (oval) profile having long since taken over for the go fast brigade, along with sacrificing a variable number of spokes.. When building a wheel, there are three main virtues to be balanced, strength, resilience, and weight. Lighter wheels can be accelerated quicker, but obviously can't be the strongest. Stiff wheels tend to be efficient in putting power to the road but are unforgiving. This can be offset somewhat by using larger profile tyres. The less crosses you have, the stiffer the wheel will be. Motorcycles are typically two cross and bicycles three. The maximum is four cross for a 36 spoke wheel, which gets you a really resilient wheel which can take a lot of punishment. It really only works (with700C) using low flange hubs. High flange gives too much angularity at the rim. Using more (if you can get the hubs and rims) spokes, or heavier spokes, allows you to increase strength while still retaining resilience, but the rims must be strong enough to take the extra tension from the spokes. Likewise the hubs must have enough meat from the hole to the flange edge (relevant if they need to be drilled out). All this sounds like a lot of trouble, but really its simply a matter of excluding unsuitable components. The benefits of getting it right are years of trouble free riding. If you want to be really smug, you can join the tiny percentage who lace their wheels symmetrically (but it's odds on that no one else will ever notice). You can check your own by checking which side of the flange the trailing spokes exit. If both exit on the outside (or inside), then it is symmetrical. If both exit either from the left or the right, then it is asymmetrical and you are in the 99%. The other piss poor thing not usually well addressed is proper greasing of the nipples (moly preferably) when building. Most are built dry, or with such thin lubricant that they might as well be. With any luck, your wheel will not need attention for years. When it does, the last thing you want is for heaps of the nipples to be frozen in place.

 

[Yako]

I had the same problem with my Gain spokes popping on the rear wheel. Blamed myself until research showed just how common a fault this was with riders of all weights. (It’s REALLY common! And on all of the rims Orbea use, Mavic, Corsa, Blackjack anyway) I got my replacements (Sapim Race 240mm) from Wheelbuilder in the Netherlands. Fast delivery and the only place I could find in Europe that had the correct length in stock during this supply-chain crisis. There is no need to remove the disc if they pop on that side - there are slots in the rotor that grant access. It’s a 10minute job on that side, a bit longer on the drive side due to having to remove the cassette.

 

[Lukejolyon]

You have the edge on my Yako - abilitiy to fix such things yourself! As Vitabrick reveals above, quite a lot involved here!

It's also bad on Orbea TBH to have mass produced a bike with such an obvious design flaw. I'm amazed that, for an otherwise very good and well constructed bike, they got something so basic so wrong.

 

[AHicks]

Don't be too quick to blame the spokes themselves. Loose spoke are just as likely, if not more likely, to cause a broken spoke problem.