Tubed vs Tubeless - what are you doing on your R&M?

[sammcneill]

So this happened to me on my commute home yesterday:

Instant deflation - was riding on the rim before I could even come to a full stop safely - not good!

I'm running tubeless on my gravel bike and eMTB now and got me thinking about going tubeless on my SuperCharger 2. I have really liked the Schwalbe Super Moto X tires and would like to stick with them but a LBS said these are not designed for going tubeless and recommended an alternative tire instead.

What was new to me was they also said they see tubeless commuters lasting around 3000km vs tubed commuter tires around 8000km on average (I'm at 9,761km on this set!)

Would be interested if others have gone tubeless on your R&M?

Cheers

 

[fooferdoggie]

what is the size of the tire? we have these on our tandem and they are pretty fast and comfortable. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07X1KDGBJ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

[JimAndArrow]

I had Tannus Armour liners installed after a couple of road flats, the increase in rolling resistance is very noticeable, as they found in this test, but worth it IMHO.

 

[sammcneill]

I had Tannus Armour liners installed after a couple of road flats, the increase in rolling resistance is very noticeable, as they found in this test, but worth it IMHO.

Like most of my bikes, I’ve only started getting punctures as tires wear down. They still have reasonable tread but I did 9000km without a single puncture. Had three (two were slow leaks to be fair) in the last 700km.

Time for new tires

 

[Sparky731]

I switched to tubeless GravelKings after numerous flats with tubes.
No more flats, but a couple of times I have found a tire flat in the morning. I just pump it up and all is fine.

I got about 3K miles out of the back tire. Front is doing well with 4k+ miles. The original G-Ones had virtually no wear after 3.3K miles. But I like the GravelKings much better.

 

[fooferdoggie]

my biggest problem with going tubeless have been valves. they all have come loose and that can bear a real pain because sometimes tightening them does not work. you need to take the wheel off and shake it too get it to seal after a valve incident sometimes. so I use a double nut on then and that has worked. also valve cores can be an issue yo fill the tire next day its flat is often the core is clogged. also if you run out of fluid you can have slow air loss.

 

[Jay Kay]

Ive been running with Tannus Tyre Armour for 3 yers - fingers crossed not a puncture to be seen in that time, same for my wife's Homage.

P.S. @sammcneill When I was riding lots of single track I used to deflate my tires to around 18psi for max grip - the Tannus allows this kind of punishment without the threat of blowing the sidewall out, even on rock gardens.

 

[sammcneill]

Ive been running with Tannus Tyre Armour for 3 yers - fingers crossed not a puncture to be seen in that time, same for my wife's Homage.

P.S. @sammcneill When I was riding lots of single track I used to deflate my tires to around 18psi for max grip - the Tannus allows this kind of punishment without the threat of blowing the sidewall out, even on rock gardens.

Thanks mate / yes off-road I’ll deflate pressure for sure and do this on my eMTB.

For the work commute I prefer higher pressure / less rolling resistance and it was on roads I got most recent punctures.

Replaced both front and rear tires (along with inner tubes) on Friday with new Super Moto X tires. Here’s hoping years of puncture free riding!

Side note: new Super Moto X didn’t have reflective ring on them - just plain black

 

[peterh_nz]

Thanks mate / yes off-road I’ll deflate pressure for sure and do this on my eMTB.

For the work commute I prefer higher pressure / less rolling resistance and it was on roads I got most recent punctures.

Replaced both front and rear tires (along with inner tubes) on Friday with new Super Moto X tires. Here’s hoping years of puncture free riding!

Side note: new Super Moto X didn’t have reflective ring on them - just plain black

Good luck with Super Moto X tyres Sam.

I continue, by choice, to run tubed tyres on my SC2. Early on I had two punctures, both in the rear wheel, cause by a carpet tack and glass.

Both punctures were easily fixed, "roadside" without removing the wheel.

I replaced the original rear tyre at 10,000km.

Cheers

 

[sammcneill]

Without removing the wheel? Did you take the outer tire off the bead and then pull the inner tube out and repair whilst still on the rim? I've never ever done that, but given my frustrations with getting the enviolo hub back up and running....

 

[peterh_nz]

Without removing the wheel? Did you take the outer tire off the bead and then pull the inner tube out and repair whilst still on the rim?

Yes, that's correct.

I ensure the tube is completely deflated; work the right side tyre bead into the centre of the rim; lever the bead over the rim, starting at the valve; partly or completely remove the tube; partially inflate tube, and; locate and mend the puncture.

For rear wheel punctures, I put the bike on the sidestand and tilt it over slightly against a post or similar, and bungy it in position so that the wheel is slightly off the ground and can be rotated along with the exposed tube.

 

[Jay Kay]

I had Tannus Armour liners installed after a couple of road flats, the increase in rolling resistance is very noticeable, as they found in this test, but worth it IMHO.

With larger battery capacities, rolling resistance is becoming less relevant in most use cases I would think?

Thanks for the link, it was an interesting and informative read.

 

[fooferdoggie]

With larger battery capacities, rolling resistance is becoming less relevant in most use cases I would think?

Thanks for the link, it was an interesting and informative read.

not really. I mean in a fat tire bike I doubt you would notice it but its still a deal on a more normal size bike. my bulls with 1.5" tires and the second gen bosch motor and my trek 8 with the 4 gen motor and 2.5" tires was far slower and far less snappy. the bulls would accelerate far better even though it only had 63nm verses the 85nm of torque. I was about 3mph faster riding the bulls too. changing hte trek to fast 2" tires and it changed a lot got atleast 10 more miles of range.

 

[pmcdonald]

not really. I mean in a fat tire bike I doubt you would notice it but its still a deal on a more normal size bike. my bulls with 1.5" tires and the second gen bosch motor and my trek 8 with the 4 gen motor and 2.5" tires was far slower and far less snappy. the bulls would accelerate far better even though it only had 63nm verses the 85nm of torque. I was about 3mph faster riding the bulls too. changing hte trek to fast 2" tires and it changed a lot got atleast 10 more miles of range.

100% I noticed the same switching to faster, lighter tyres. More poppy, rolls downhill faster, quicker off the line and measurably better economy or range. Less of an issue with a motor for sure, but there's still a cost to all that protection.

 

[JimAndArrow]

With larger battery capacities, rolling resistance is becoming less relevant in most use cases I would think?

Thanks for the link, it was an interesting and informative read.

I actually find it very noticeable, but worth it for me after a couple of flats out and about. In many places I’m either slower or riding in Eco mode where before I comfortably rode with the motor off, or riding in Tour mode where before I was in Eco.

But, I’m always riding with my service dog, and staying him on the side of a busy road while I fix a flat is less than ideal, and I also sometimes ride with my son and having him standing around waiting while I try roadside repair is also suboptimal.

Life is compromise, it slows me down and uses more power but I’ll take the tradeoff for reliability of arrival time.

 

[fooferdoggie]

100% I noticed the same switching to faster, lighter tyres. More poppy, rolls downhill faster, quicker off the line and measurably better economy or range. Less of an issue with a motor for sure, but there's still a cost to all that protection.

even on out tandem going from marathon Plus to Schwalbe Marathon Almotion same size but tubeless is very noticeable.

 

[Slaphappygamer]

Ive been running with Tannus Tyre Armour for 3 yers - fingers crossed not a puncture to be seen in that time, same for my wife's Homage.

Glad to hear it! I installed Tannis Armor about a year ago. No flats. The tires are a big spongy, but that’s also a softer ride.

 

[JimAndArrow]

One other thing I've noticed with the Tannus liners is that the increased rolling resistance is very sensitive to pressure - at 40psi it's present but tolerable, if I let them get down to 30 it's very noticeable.

 

[Sparky731]

For what it may be worth, I switched from Schwalbe G-Ones w/tubes w/Slime to Panaracer GravelKings tubeless and Orange sealant. 4 flats with the G-Ones w/in 3k miles. 0 flats in 7k miles on Gravelkings — but I have replaced the rear tire 2x — I like to slide my rear tire to impress my wife. (She says it doesn’t work.)

I carry an electric pump and a patch kit neither of which I have ever used for flats on the trail. I do use the pump to re-inflate the tires occasionally. I liked the G-Ones but love the GravelKings. And I ride 1/2 year in AZ with occasional prickly stuff on the trails.

 

[sammcneill]

For what it may be worth, I switched from Schwalbe G-Ones w/tubes w/Slime to Panaracer GravelKings tubeless and Orange sealant. 4 flats with the G-Ones w/in 3k miles. 0 flats in 7k miles on Gravelkings — but I have replaced the rear tire 2x — I like to slide my rear tire to impress my wife. (She says it doesn’t work.)

I carry an electric pump and a patch kit neither of which I have ever used for flats on the trail. I do use the pump to re-inflate the tires occasionally. I liked the G-Ones but love the GravelKings. And I ride 1/2 year in AZ with occasional prickly stuff on the trails.

I have tubeless gravel kings on my gravel bike and mostly good, although my rear had some weird structural defect where it started bulging and leaking in lots of places -
Replaced it but hard to find GK’s at the time so got a Specialized equivalent