Hypotheticals - would you replace your R&M with another R&M??

I would have never invested in an e-bike made of only proprietary components, and with the motor that only yields 52 Nm at 940 W of motor power (ST 7). A Direct Drive motor of an unknown brand in the era of mid-drives?

It is yet another Van Moof, only far more expensive.

@Stefan Mikes , I care about real world experience, not the manipulated manufactures specs.
For my riding, Stromer and its’ hub drive motors are clearly the current leader for speed pedelac bikes. And for Stromers next gen build:
E 12 speed pinion with Gates carbon fiber belt and the whimpy motor you mentioned….
That is an awesome combo.

I love R & M but not #1 speed pedalac IMO.
I could own one in the future, for sure.
Or maybe for a European rental vacation.
Peace
 
My latest R&M Supercharger GX Rohloff is getting a bit tired now, so am thinking about my next eBike and returned to this forum to get some ideas. I've come a bit late to the thread, but thought I'd add my experiences anyway.

I started my long-distance eBike touring in Australia in early 2017, with a dual 500Wh battery Delite GX Rohloff - a great bike that carried me over 17,000 km (~10,500 miles) towing a single-wheel Topeak Journey trailer. (Besides having a lot of camping gear, I had to carry a 1kVA gas generator with me for charging). Two trailers broke but the bike was fine, the main problem being that chains lasted only about 1,500 - 2,000 miles or so. Only Intuvia was available then in Australia, and mobile phone coverage was patchy at best, so navigation was a bit of a problem.

That bike got stolen, and I 'upgraded' to an R&M Supercharger GX with a Nyon cockpit and a Gates carbon belt drive. both of which had become available in the meantime. The Nyon and the belt drive fixed the two previous gripes, and a BOB trailer and (lighter 800W Gentrax generator) fixed the load issue, and I've had no real problems since, for a further 14,000 km (8,500 miles) so far, mostly long-distance touring.

I wanted to go touring in Europe and so purchased another almost identical Supercharger GX in Germany in 2018 that I keep there, and so far I've ridden 38,600 km (almost 24,000 miles) on it, and it is now really starting to show it's age. (and I don't use a trailer in Europe as there are enough charging opportunities available everywhere, unlike in outback Australia).

The Gates belt delaminated suddenly at 20,000 km - not expensive to replace, but it took a week of waiting in Lyon, France, to get a new one delivered. The Bosch motor (Gen 3) failed at 33,000 km/ 20,500 mi because the spline on the main sprocket had worn down to nothing (due to incorrect locking ring from new). All the bike shops wanted me to fork out €1,200/US$1,300 for a new motor (after a 2-3 week wait) but after a lot of hassle I managed to find a replacement gear from off a second-hand hire bike motor (I intended to, but couldn't, just swap the motor over because mine was electronically configured for two batteries whereas the hire bike wasn't). It all seems be be working ok again, though it now whines an awful lot.

And there are a few other remaining issues too: the kickstand is kaput (and I can't easily fit a replacement as one of the mounting bolts broke off in the cast bracket plate and cracked it), both Alex MD40 rims are splitting and my Brookes saddle is broken. Also making me think about changing-up is that, from my riding experiences, I would definitely benefit from the longer range afforded by 2x615 kWh batteries as well as from greater torque and the lesser resistance of the Gen 4 motor in OFF-mode.

I need a rugged bike with a range of 180 km/ 110 mi. Not that I'd probably ever want to travel that far in a day - 150 km is about my daily max (and only 123 km is my 1,500-day touring average to date) - but you have to leave 15-20% in reserve to take account of things like weather, terrain, getting lost, looking after battery life and the time to recharge (it's best to cycle between 15 - 85% I have found), and where the next available charging point might be etc.

So would I go for another R&M eBike for my style of touring? Yeah, probably. I definitely like the Bosch system, but I'm just about annoyed enough with R&M to seriously consider alternatives.
The main negatives with R&M for me are: no front fork brazons (though I've got a 'faiv Hoogar' front luggage rack that straps on and it works), the rear pannier rack is simply pathetic, the wiring connection to the rear light is designed to fail, the spec upgrade options offered (rims and suspensin) are not top-of-the-range). I understand the Multi-charger is available in 2 x750 Wh battery configuration and the rear pannier rack definitely looks an improvement on the Supercharger, so I may go that way. But I do see, for example, that Santos are offering a steel bike with a Pendix drive that looks interesting.
 
My latest R&M Supercharger GX Rohloff is getting a bit tired now, so am thinking about my next eBike and returned to this forum to get some ideas. I've come a bit late to the thread, but thought I'd add my experiences anyway.

I started my long-distance eBike touring in Australia in early 2017, with a dual 500Wh battery Delite GX Rohloff - a great bike that carried me over 17,000 km (~10,500 miles) towing a single-wheel Topeak Journey trailer. (Besides having a lot of camping gear, I had to carry a 1kVA gas generator with me for charging). Two trailers broke but the bike was fine, the main problem being that chains lasted only about 1,500 - 2,000 miles or so. Only Intuvia was available then in Australia, and mobile phone coverage was patchy at best, so navigation was a bit of a problem.

That bike got stolen, and I 'upgraded' to an R&M Supercharger GX with a Nyon cockpit and a Gates carbon belt drive. both of which had become available in the meantime. The Nyon and the belt drive fixed the two previous gripes, and a BOB trailer and (lighter 800W Gentrax generator) fixed the load issue, and I've had no real problems since, for a further 14,000 km (8,500 miles) so far, mostly long-distance touring.

I wanted to go touring in Europe and so purchased another almost identical Supercharger GX in Germany in 2018 that I keep there, and so far I've ridden 38,600 km (almost 24,000 miles) on it, and it is now really starting to show it's age. (and I don't use a trailer in Europe as there are enough charging opportunities available everywhere, unlike in outback Australia).

The Gates belt delaminated suddenly at 20,000 km - not expensive to replace, but it took a week of waiting in Lyon, France, to get a new one delivered. The Bosch motor (Gen 3) failed at 33,000 km/ 20,500 mi because the spline on the main sprocket had worn down to nothing (due to incorrect locking ring from new). All the bike shops wanted me to fork out €1,200/US$1,300 for a new motor (after a 2-3 week wait) but after a lot of hassle I managed to find a replacement gear from off a second-hand hire bike motor (I intended to, but couldn't, just swap the motor over because mine was electronically configured for two batteries whereas the hire bike wasn't). It all seems be be working ok again, though it now whines an awful lot.

And there are a few other remaining issues too: the kickstand is kaput (and I can't easily fit a replacement as one of the mounting bolts broke off in the cast bracket plate and cracked it), both Alex MD40 rims are splitting and my Brookes saddle is broken. Also making me think about changing-up is that, from my riding experiences, I would definitely benefit from the longer range afforded by 2x615 kWh batteries as well as from greater torque and the lesser resistance of the Gen 4 motor in OFF-mode.

I need a rugged bike with a range of 180 km/ 110 mi. Not that I'd probably ever want to travel that far in a day - 150 km is about my daily max (and only 123 km is my 1,500-day touring average to date) - but you have to leave 15-20% in reserve to take account of things like weather, terrain, getting lost, looking after battery life and the time to recharge (it's best to cycle between 15 - 85% I have found), and where the next available charging point might be etc.

So would I go for another R&M eBike for my style of touring? Yeah, probably. I definitely like the Bosch system, but I'm just about annoyed enough with R&M to seriously consider alternatives.
The main negatives with R&M for me are: no front fork brazons (though I've got a 'faiv Hoogar' front luggage rack that straps on and it works), the rear pannier rack is simply pathetic, the wiring connection to the rear light is designed to fail, the spec upgrade options offered (rims and suspensin) are not top-of-the-range). I understand the Multi-charger is available in 2 x750 Wh battery configuration and the rear pannier rack definitely looks an improvement on the Supercharger, so I may go that way. But I do see, for example, that Santos are offering a steel bike with a Pendix drive that looks interesting.
Wow - you've done some legit distances on your collection of bikes mate! Impressive stuff.
I'd love to see some photos of your touring set up if you were willing to share?

Interesting problems you've encountered - I'm sitting around 11,500km on my SC2 now and it's mostly still going in good condition just with a few scratches etc of normal wear and tear to the bodywork. The original belt drive still going well, but I don't recommend the Enviolo hub on a HS (as I've detailed elsewhere on these forums).

I was in Europe for a 3 weeks over Dec/Jan and I saw a heap of different eBike brands over there, including ones talked about as possible R&M replacements - it's just most of those do not make their way down to New Zealand where I'm based. I've got a good LBS that largely delivers good support on the 2x R&M I've got.

I'd love to go for some extended touring like you've done, but still in the thick of family/work life at the moment so don't see that happening any time soon!
 
My latest R&M Supercharger GX Rohloff is getting a bit tired now, so am thinking about my next eBike and returned to this forum to get some ideas. I've come a bit late to the thread, but thought I'd add my experiences anyway.

I started my long-distance eBike touring in Australia in early 2017, with a dual 500Wh battery Delite GX Rohloff - a great bike that carried me over 17,000 km (~10,500 miles) towing a single-wheel Topeak Journey trailer. (Besides having a lot of camping gear, I had to carry a 1kVA gas generator with me for charging). Two trailers broke but the bike was fine, the main problem being that chains lasted only about 1,500 - 2,000 miles or so. Only Intuvia was available then in Australia, and mobile phone coverage was patchy at best, so navigation was a bit of a problem.

That bike got stolen, and I 'upgraded' to an R&M Supercharger GX with a Nyon cockpit and a Gates carbon belt drive. both of which had become available in the meantime. The Nyon and the belt drive fixed the two previous gripes, and a BOB trailer and (lighter 800W Gentrax generator) fixed the load issue, and I've had no real problems since, for a further 14,000 km (8,500 miles) so far, mostly long-distance touring.

I wanted to go touring in Europe and so purchased another almost identical Supercharger GX in Germany in 2018 that I keep there, and so far I've ridden 38,600 km (almost 24,000 miles) on it, and it is now really starting to show it's age. (and I don't use a trailer in Europe as there are enough charging opportunities available everywhere, unlike in outback Australia).

The Gates belt delaminated suddenly at 20,000 km - not expensive to replace, but it took a week of waiting in Lyon, France, to get a new one delivered. The Bosch motor (Gen 3) failed at 33,000 km/ 20,500 mi because the spline on the main sprocket had worn down to nothing (due to incorrect locking ring from new). All the bike shops wanted me to fork out €1,200/US$1,300 for a new motor (after a 2-3 week wait) but after a lot of hassle I managed to find a replacement gear from off a second-hand hire bike motor (I intended to, but couldn't, just swap the motor over because mine was electronically configured for two batteries whereas the hire bike wasn't). It all seems be be working ok again, though it now whines an awful lot.

And there are a few other remaining issues too: the kickstand is kaput (and I can't easily fit a replacement as one of the mounting bolts broke off in the cast bracket plate and cracked it), both Alex MD40 rims are splitting and my Brookes saddle is broken. Also making me think about changing-up is that, from my riding experiences, I would definitely benefit from the longer range afforded by 2x615 kWh batteries as well as from greater torque and the lesser resistance of the Gen 4 motor in OFF-mode.

I need a rugged bike with a range of 180 km/ 110 mi. Not that I'd probably ever want to travel that far in a day - 150 km is about my daily max (and only 123 km is my 1,500-day touring average to date) - but you have to leave 15-20% in reserve to take account of things like weather, terrain, getting lost, looking after battery life and the time to recharge (it's best to cycle between 15 - 85% I have found), and where the next available charging point might be etc.

So would I go for another R&M eBike for my style of touring? Yeah, probably. I definitely like the Bosch system, but I'm just about annoyed enough with R&M to seriously consider alternatives.
The main negatives with R&M for me are: no front fork brazons (though I've got a 'faiv Hoogar' front luggage rack that straps on and it works), the rear pannier rack is simply pathetic, the wiring connection to the rear light is designed to fail, the spec upgrade options offered (rims and suspensin) are not top-of-the-range). I understand the Multi-charger is available in 2 x750 Wh battery configuration and the rear pannier rack definitely looks an improvement on the Supercharger, so I may go that way. But I do see, for example, that Santos are offering a steel bike with a Pendix drive that looks interesting.
Thanks for your full and interesting report, especially as I'm also a RM SC (2) owner, albeit with many fewer kms on the clock.

More than 15,000km now, and running and handling as well as it was when new. Very happy with it.

Good luck with your decision on a replacement.
 
Wow - you've done some legit distances on your collection of bikes mate! Impressive stuff.
I'd love to see some photos of your touring set up if you were willing to share?

Interesting problems you've encountered - I'm sitting around 11,500km on my SC2 now and it's mostly still going in good condition just with a few scratches etc of normal wear and tear to the bodywork. The original belt drive still going well, but I don't recommend the Enviolo hub on a HS (as I've detailed elsewhere on these forums).

I was in Europe for a 3 weeks over Dec/Jan and I saw a heap of different eBike brands over there, including ones talked about as possible R&M replacements - it's just most of those do not make their way down to New Zealand where I'm based. I've got a good LBS that largely delivers good support on the 2x R&M I've got.

I'd love to go for some extended touring like you've done, but still in the thick of family/work life at the moment so don't see that happening any time soon!
Sure, Peter, thanks for your interest. I've got plenty of pictures that you can look at that are already on the web. You can see all the various set-ups.
I've been posting my trips on my blog site that I called < www.ebiketraveller.site >. I've been cycle touring 6-8 months a year since 2017, except for the 2020/2021 lockdown period, in between various work assignments.
I'm about half a year behind with my posting at the moment - still got another 8,500 km/4 months' worth to post from last year around Europe. I'm up to West Coast Scotland on the site but then went up to the Orkneys and Shetland before heading back to Holland and Denmark and around Germany that I still have to write up, which I hope to get around to eventually.
Cheers, Paul
 
Sure, Peter, thanks for your interest. I've got plenty of pictures that you can look at that are already on the web. You can see all the various set-ups.
I've been posting my trips on my blog site that I called < www.ebiketraveller.site >. I've been cycle touring 6-8 months a year since 2017, except for the 2020/2021 lockdown period, in between various work assignments.
I'm about half a year behind with my posting at the moment - still got another 8,500 km/4 months' worth to post from last year around Europe. I'm up to West Coast Scotland on the site but then went up to the Orkneys and Shetland before heading back to Holland and Denmark and around Germany that I still have to write up, which I hope to get around to eventually.
Cheers, Paul
No, not been cycling in NZ yet. Because the batteries aren't allowed on the plane, I've been looking for a cheap ocean cruise I can get on and take my bike with me. Not cheap at all!, and doesn't seem like I can break the cruise to get off, cycle, and get back on again, but I've not given up yet. May just fly over and hire a bike there eh.
 
No, not been cycling in NZ yet. Because the batteries aren't allowed on the plane, I've been looking for a cheap ocean cruise I can get on and take my bike with me. Not cheap at all!, and doesn't seem like I can break the cruise to get off, cycle, and get back on again, but I've not given up yet. May just fly over and hire a bike there eh.
Have you looked at going on a container ship? They take few passengers.
 
Have you looked at going on a container ship? They take few passengers.
Good point. I did look at cargo/ container vessels - there's even a NZ website that specializes in arranging passage on them, but I was told that has all dried up since COVID. That was a while ago, so maybe I should look at that again. Thanks
 
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Could you elaborate? What R&M bikes have you owned?
I have a 2017 Charger Rohloff GX dual battery.

340A8BE2-A761-455E-B5E4-25FBC16F1ABC.jpeg


Why would I not buy another R&M?
  1. Except for marginally larger batteries, the state-of-the-art hasn't really improved that much and certainly not enough to justify the substantial investment in a newer bike.
  2. My riding and bicycle travel patterns have changed and I am riding much more on a non-electric bike. In all probability my N+1 at this point would not be an electric bike.
  3. I'm not seeing an e-bike from R&M that I really want to have taking up space in my garage.
To go a little bit further, I have some pet peeves about the e-bike industry that have kind of turned me off from e-bikes in general. A lot of e-bikes out there seem to be more about looking cool and less about being great riding machines. In my opinion especially at the high end they are trying too hard to impress people looking at photos of the bike and less about impressing someone riding the bike. They cut corners on components and don't seem to know anything about ergonomics and bike fit, or maybe they just do not care.
 
I have a 2017 Charger Rohloff GX dual battery.

Thanks.

So seems the primary factors are that you're likely to buy a non ebike instead and there's no need to replace your present R&M.

That latter is very much my case. However, in contrast, the daily use of my bike is increasing more than anything.
 
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Do you know of any reason for the delamination?


I'm impressed by the interesting and extensive record you're keeping of your trips.

At least on my mobile, the menu of your site (three bars top right) is empty. Is that the case?
Thanks for the feedback.
Yes, the menu is empty on the mobile version of the site and I don't know why that is, but the "categories" at the bottom do link to all the individual posts - probably just my poor setting up of the site. Same for the laptop/ desktop version, where "categories" and post dates are all listed on the right-hand side and the links work.
Delamination of the Gates belt is not entirely unheard of from what I can gather, though was premature in my case. Possibly because of over-tensioning combined with toting a lot of weight, at least that's according to the bike shop that replaced it. For all its worth, I had maintained the tension at that recommended by R&M/ Gates, but the bike shop were astonished and said that is far too high, and set it much much lower. (I don't have figures, just a twang VS. not twanging).
But I suspect the more likely cause was an incorrect-width locking ring fitted to the motor sprocket that caused misalignment of the front and rear sprockets, and thus sideways warping of the belt. I'll have a bit to say about that in my later blogs from last year when I get around to writing them up.
 
For all its worth, I had maintained the tension at that recommended by R&M/ Gates, but the bike shop were astonished and said that is far too high, and set it much much lower. (I don't have figures, just a twang VS. not twanging).
Did you use the mobile phone application, the Gates Carbon Drive Mobile App, to test tension? Just curious as to whether the app is reliable or not.
 
For all its worth, I had maintained the tension at that recommended by R&M/ Gates,
Could you explain further how you did that?

Did you use the mobile phone application, the Gates Carbon Drive Mobile App, to test tension? Just curious as to whether the app is reliable or not.
I use the app and find it gives repeatable and acceptable results, providing one is careful with the actual precedure of using it. Getting the plucking technique right is a major part of that.
 
I use the app and find it gives repeatable and acceptable results, providing one is careful with the actual precedure of using it. Getting the plucking technique right is a major part of that.

Thanks for the feedback. I will give it go (it is free after all) but will if necessary spend the coin and get a Gates Carbon Drive Belt Tension Meter.
 
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