TSDZ8 Eight Version Motor

[PedalUma]

This V-8 is as of now (January of 2024) the latest version Tongsheng motor. I am not finding out much about it yet and wanted to setup a place where we can discuss it and learn more. Here is what I know so far. It is a little larger than the TSDZ2 and it only comes in 750W and for non-coaster brake bikes. There is more clearance between the BB and the shell. It has a new clutch and perhaps more bearings on the main shaft and it has a new controller. And it uses an 8-pin harness to the display. There is a color display option and a VLCD-5 option. It uses a new speed sensor pickup and cannot be used with carbon bikes.

 

[harryS]

Buy one and try it out! I have read that it's the same design principle, but with a larger motor, and possibly less air gaps in the case so it will cool better.

 

[PedalUma]

Buy one and try it out! I have read that it's the same design principle, but with a larger motor, and possibly less air gaps in the case so it will cool better.

The design looks very much like the To7, DMO1. I wonder if it is to compete with that. It was engendered by the same person who designed the TSDZ2. I think that the smaller DMO2 is more attractive. The DMO1 will be a drivetrain killer. I do not want to be a paying bata tester.

 

[Art Deco]

The design looks very much like the To7, DMO1. I wonder if it is to compete with that. It was engendered by the same person who designed the TSDZ2. I think that the smaller DMO2 is more attractive. The DMO1 will be a drivetrain killer. I do not want to be a paying bata tester.

View attachment 170146

Wise. Don't buy version 1.0 of anything. Personally, i hope it's quieter ... but 750W is tempting. I assume it's 48volt only as well, that is where all the non ebike D.C. systems are heading.

 

[harryS]

Here's more pics on the TSDZ28 from Europe, Weight is 5 kg, which is about 11 lbs w/o crank arms, What was the TSDZ2B? ABout 9 lbs. I think,

Tongsheng TSDZ8 750W 48V teardown, disassembly

ebikestuff.eu

 

[PedalUma]

@harryS, That is very good information. I really like that serviceability is designed in! Some silicone plumbers grease on those paper gaskets would help.

A few days ago I worked on a scooter where service design was not the case. It was marketing hype with C.A.D. To change the rear tube I had to first unscrew the rotor, loosen brackets, loosen the axle bolts, remove the caliper, then drop the wheel. Cheap is more expensive. Oh, and they assembled it with power tools. One of the rotor's screws was overtightened and the head striped. What a pain. Changing a tube should not take more than five minutes. That one took an hour to get it all back together right.

 

[Ken Shopken]

This V-8 is as of now (January of 2024) the latest version Tongsheng motor. I am not finding out much about it yet and wanted to setup a place where we can discuss it and learn more. Here is what I know so far. It is a little larger than the TSDZ2 and it only comes in 750W and for non-coaster brake bikes. There is more clearance between the BB and the shell. It has a new clutch and perhaps more bearings on the main shaft and it has a new controller. And it uses an 8-pin harness to the display. There is a color display option and a VLCD-5 option. It uses a new speed sensor pickup and cannot be used with carbon bikes.

I have been checking this out too.

Tempted to pick one up and give it a try... that torque increase is appealing.

 

[Ken Shopken]

The design looks very much like the To7, DMO1. I wonder if it is to compete with that. It was engendered by the same person who designed the TSDZ2. I think that the smaller DMO2 is more attractive. The DMO1 will be a drivetrain killer. I do not want to be a paying bata tester.

View attachment 170146

 

[Ken Shopken]

Available; https://www.aliexpress.com/store/1102731762/pages/all-items.html?sortType=bestmatch_sort

 

[triplemaya]

Hi Ken. Thank you so much for all this great info. What about Noise?! I have to have a really quiet bike, and the BBSHD is my great joy in that regard. How does the DM01 compare? (Sorry if that is described later in the video, did not have time to watch it all. But Love the way you have put the commentary to the biking on the road. Really nice work.) Kind regards. Andrew

 

[Ken Shopken]

Hi Ken. Thank you so much for all this great info. What about Noise?! I have to have a really quiet bike, and the BBSHD is my great joy in that regard. How does the DM01 compare? (Sorry if that is described later in the video, did not have time to watch it all. But Love the way you have put the commentary to the biking on the road. Really nice work.) Kind regards. Andrew

I only shared the video.. not the creator of it.

As far as noise goes- low noise seems to be one of its strong suits. Check out 6:17 of this video for a brief explanation on sound output;

 

[Ken Shopken]

Wise. Don't buy version 1.0 of anything. Personally, i hope it's quieter ... but 750W is tempting. I assume it's 48volt only as well, that is where all the non ebike D.C. systems are heading.

Sounds like the package will support 36-70v, 500-1000w, with the next case design coming with cooling fins. There is talk of making the software open source. I am going to buy the next version.

 

[Ken Shopken]

TSDZ8 tear down with some measurements and Bafang BBS parts compared.

 

[triplemaya]

I only shared the video.. not the creator of it.

As far as noise goes- low noise seems to be one of its strong suits. Check out 6:17 of this video for a brief explanation on sound output;

Hi Ken. Thanks for that. Disappointing in that it sounds as if the motor is audible. But then this is about the DMO2. Maybe the DMO1 is really quiet. With the bbshd the motor in inaudible except under significant load. But possibly he is using it quite hard when the noise is heard. I read a write up of the cyc photon that said it was very quiet so I bought one to try it out. Whiny little ****! Nearly as bad as an elderly tsz2. Sent it back.

 

[PedalUma]

I have decided to go in a slightly different direction with the Toseven. I have ordered one that arrives at the end of next week. It is the 90Nm, 500W, DM02. They have been out for two years and any bugs have been worked out. I have another thread on programing them. The programing possibilities are endless and that is all done through the display. I really like the design and things such as serviceability and heat management. It was designed by the designer of the TSDZ2. All of that experience and feedback went into this design. I do not find the DM01 appealing. It is too heavy and the output is beyond the point of causing drivetrain damage. I am ordering two more DM02 motors today for upcoming projects. @m@Robertson explained to me about the overheating problems with the CYC. And I personally do not like the aesthetic of it.

 

[linklemming]

Just wanted to clarify 'apparent CYC Photon overheating problems' so the game of telephone doesn't get out of hand.

While I respect m@Robertson and all the contributions he has made on this site, he has an obvious hatred for CYC due to issues he had with previous products. I understand this, I have the same hatred for the TSDZ2 with OSF due to my experiences (including frequent overheating) and early bearing failure(<1k miles)

Please note that m@Robertson does not have any actual experience with the CYC photon.

Much of the overheating claims seem to come from the "High Voltage DIY Electric Bikes and Vehicles" channel on YouTube. Note that the author of that channel has quite a few high power kits and seems to do a lot of his riding on throttle only. I actually addressed this in the YouTube comments on one of his photon videos and he agreed on being spoiled by his 72V BBSHD kits and that the Photon may not be the best choice for his riding.

This channel also seems to show the DM02 with external ASI controller on 52V doing a claimed speed of 35-40kph going up a 10% grade without overheating. In fact, in that video, the max temp seemed to be around 60C with power levels maxing out around 1500 watts , not sure where that temp sensor is or if it is calibrated correctly by the external ASI controller but that thermal performance seems pretty unrealistic. I know my 52V BBSHD would overheat in those conditions.

For the record, my two 52V DIY mid drives are a BBSHD and CYC Photon (currently at 1300 miles). I ride pretty much everyday and swap bikes for each ride. I weigh about 240#

Of course the BBSHD is a monster buts its cadence based assist is pretty soulless. The CYC photon torque sensing is the best DIY solution I have ever had and in some ways is better than my favorite factory mid drive unit (Brose). I do not run a throttle on the CYC Photon.

I am running my Photon in the highest power preset (RACE, Unrestricted), this appears to be 500W at assist level 1, 1000W at assist level 2 and 1500W at assist level 3. 90% of my riding is at assist level 2 and at this power level, the only overheating I ever saw was on climbs greater than 12% using a 42t front chainring and 11-36 cassette. With a 11-46t cassette, no overheating under the same conditions. I can get overheating (>90C) using assist level 3 when the grade gets above 8% or so and I am going all out (my max capacity). I also can get overheating at speeds above 25mph or so battling headwinds going up 4-6% grades. Otherwise, I rarely see the Photon go above 60C.

I have never experienced overheating in the lower presets.

Many Photon users on endless-sphere also claim a lack of overheating issues.

IMHO, the CYC Photon was designed as a DIY solution to compete with the factory mid-drives, not an all out high power or throttle setup. In that respect I consider it a success.

To bad the price is $$$$

 

[EMGX]

You make a good point about not putting too much weight on an individual personal experience. I have two TSDZ2 with double the mileage that you have on your Photon (~2500 miles on one and over 1000 on the other) riding hilly to mountainous terrain. No failures or problems of any kind, electrical or mechanical, and I've never felt the need to alter the firmware settings - just as I've never felt the need to change any settings on my Yamaha mid drive (other than to activate the walk assist, which isn't possible anyway). That said I never plan to buy another Netgear router based on negative experiences recently on two new units (thank you Costco return policy) and based on reviews I'm not alone in that opinion but by far the majority of reviews of those routers is very positive. So, based on my experience, I'd say that TSDZ2 is a good choice for someone wanting to convert their compatible bike to good performing torque sensing mid drive if they can accept the chainline issues that aftermarket mid drive conversions pose. While your experience led you to dump it in a landfill.

 

[PedalUma]

The first Toseven at 500W is going on a huge cargo bike that can carry four kids plus the rider. It has a Nexus 8 internally geared hub that just cannot take the 'High Voltage' approach. I will down tune it for long service life. It will not have a throttle or brake cutout levers. The motor is for assistance. It will be used for making local deliveries on the flats at low speeds. The bike is also to create buzz for a coffee shop. The High Voltage guy is nuts IMHO and his builds are ugly.